NFL conducting ?comprehensive? Peyton Manning investigation

Even if Ashley was taking HGH illegally, do you really believe that confirms Peyton was? It is an invasion of privacy to be expected to answer definitively one way or the other, regardless of whether the allegation is true or false. The lack of denial isn't odd at all in that context, and again, lack of denial is a world away from confirmation.

There is enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a thorough investigation. To draw conclusions at this point is childish and ignorant.

Reading is fundamentally

Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
Ashley Manning, I've acknowledged, may have had one of the 3 medical condition that justify HGH, but, I also gave very valid reasons it was highly unlikely. Any illness or trial use, wouldn't involve her going to an anti aging clinic. I did say the most likely reason for her HGH use was her trying to lose the baby weight but again that would be illegal
It wouldn't be an invasion of her medical privacy if she if wasn't taking HGH.
And the lack of denial is also odd to say the least. Again all she or Manning would have to say is she didn't nor has she ever taken HGH which would end this whole thing. And, if once again, she never took it it wouldn't be a invasion of her medical privacy
I have no idea if Peyton took the HGH but lets not pretend there isn't enough circumstantial evidence starting to add up.

~Dee~

:shrug_n:
 
"At the end of the day, we have a claim that Manning used HGH."

I see plenty of evidence that he probably had cause to take it.

Despite the claim of Ashley receiving it being recanted immediately after the release of the documentary by a source who may not even have been at the clinic at the time in question

Ari Fleischer admitted Ashley was shipped medication from Guyer. Ari Fleischer has been careful not to deny it was HGH. Sly's recant is trumped by Fleischer's admisson.

the reporter claiming a second source that I can't name who is way more reliable than my primary source trust me

A 2nd “impeccably placed, knowledgable, and credible” source who corroborated the veracity of all of Sly's statements in the documentary before it was aired, including those statements Sly made about the Mannings. Al J is on record as standing behind the documentary 100%. That's a long limb to climb out on if Al J thought there was any chance they could lose in court.

http://deadspin.com/al-jazeera-reporter-second-knowledgable-and-credible-1750778458

many people here are choosing to just assume that he's guilty.

I see a preponderance of real evidence that indicates he probably did do it. Personally, I think he did it, yes, even though there's no video of him injecting himself. I also think Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Alex Rodriguez did it as do 98% of all fans. I'm not ashamed of that.



At the very least, it sounds more probable than not.:coffee:

---------- Post added at 07:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 AM ----------

The reporter claimed an anonymous second source. This isn't the same as confirmation.


It's not really a safe assumption, because if the medication was, in fact, for Ashley, then what it was is no one's business. Not denying something is a world away from confirming it.


PIs aren't always the most upstanding of citizens, so I would guess they probably do pass themselves off as law enforcement. I would also guess they usually do it by inference and implication rather than outright claiming to be the police to avoid felony charges of actually claiming to be a police officer. Is it really shady? Yes. I'm not arguing that. What I'm trying to get you all to see is they are private contractors hired by lawyers. It's not like Manning sent some thugs over. While you infer that the investigation is to cover his tracks as best as he can, it is at least equally likely that the investigation is to start building the defamation lawsuit that they are preparing.


I was referring to the general "you" not to "you" specifically when I was talking about snarky assumptions of guilt. The people with the cute nicknames, the people who have already decided he did it and just waiting for the facts to catch up, all the comments about what the NFL will do about Manning's guilt.


I disagree strongly with your statement. The charge here is that Manning used HGH. An admission that Ashley received medication isn't evidence that Manning used HGH. The second source hasn't been named or vetted by anyone but the reporter. Given the problems with the first source, I'm going to need a lot more than the reporter's word that the second source is reliable. A federal indictment for Guyer about HGH, while certainly shady, can hardly be called evidence against Peyton. These 3 pieces of "evidence" are WAY more peripheral than footballs that were in the NFL's hands and gauged lower than the allowable PSI. I know you're going to say the IGL explains the disparity, but the numbers on that certainly weren't available at the beginning of the Deflategate investigation, so at the beginning of the investigation, like where we are now with Peyton, there was tangible, measurable evidence suggesting the balls had been deflated.

As for the common sense observations, Ashley not receiving it from Guyer if it was legit is an unsupported leap. Manning didn't claim that every word Sly spoke was garbage. He was asked about the implication that he had used HGH and said that was garbage. He specifically said that the allegation he would do anything like that is garbage. I don't understand how someone being forthright about information that, in all honesty, doesn't help the public appearance of the case doesn't pass your "sniff test", and how failing that test is somehow a common sense observation.

At the end of the day, we have a claim that Manning used HGH. Despite the claim of Ashley receiving it being recanted immediately after the release of the documentary by a source who may not even have been at the clinic at the time in question, despite lawsuits being filed already by other people named in the report, despite the reporter claiming a second source that I can't name who is way more reliable than my primary source trust me, and despite the myriad scenarios in which all of this could be ultimately legitimized, many people here are choosing to just assume that he's guilty.

I've seen it mentioned here that jumping to conclusions is bad, but it appears that for many of the people posting, it's only bad if it compromises the appearance of the Patriots or their players. If it's anyone else, facts and evidence aren't necessary, just the narrative that you want. It's pretty hypocritical, especially coming from a fanbase who has had to deal with nearly a decade of people doing exactly the same thing to you.



Sorry more probable than not gets your convicted...remember your first posts here?
 
My hope is a defamation suit follows, then all this information can be requested by ALJ, including delivery records. So in proving his own innocence ManninHGH will actually prove guilt of his wife and in my opinion, himself.
 
My hope is a defamation suit follows, then all this information can be requested by ALJ, including delivery records. So in proving his own innocence ManninHGH will actually prove guilt of his wife and in my opinion, himself.

Which is a good reason for Manninhgh not to file suit.
 
I want to say I am happy the Sox got Salti over Teagarden (sp?).

And his appearance in this whole deal tells me Sly is the real deal. he was a Ranger, the same team known for using all kinds of PED's. Was still an active minor league player who is no opening himself up to a huge suspension. My thoughts are he will be huge in the investigation and will turn on everyone. He is done as an athlete after waiting outside Sly's Place and his comments.
 
The comparisons were from Mayo and Patriot71. I was simply addressing their issues. The questions that need to be answered are the reason there is an investigation. At no point have I said this is over and done, Peyton is innocent. I agree, there needs to be more information gathered.


After how badly the first source worked out, I will need more than "but my second source is really great, honest. I can't tell you who it is, but, truly, awesome."

You're exactly the kind of person I'm talking about by the way, giving him the * without enough evidence. How long will it take me to find posts you made criticizing other fans for doing the same thing to Brady?


Even if Ashley was taking HGH illegally, do you really believe that confirms Peyton was? It is an invasion of privacy to be expected to answer definitively one way or the other, regardless of whether the allegation is true or false. The lack of denial isn't odd at all in that context, and again, lack of denial is a world away from confirmation.

There is enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a thorough investigation. To draw conclusions at this point is childish and ignorant.


It hasn't actually. It's been claimed but not confirmed. In fact, with his graduation in 2013, and confirmation from his school that internships are almost exclusively done in the final year, it looks like "Heather" may not have provided the correct information.

But please, don't allow facts to get in the way of your narrative.



Maybe you are just naive.

I realize that being blindsided by Peyton's sexual assault on a female trainer, and his subsequent attempt to further embarrass her in his book rocked your world, but IMO, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
 
Maybe you are just naive.

I realize that being blindsided by Peyton's sexual assault on a female trainer, and his subsequent attempt to further embarrass her in his book rocked your world, but IMO, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
i really stopped reading the unconditional love of Pey Pey. So based on what I have read
I am saying this cat is just being difficult. Every time the sex assault was brought up BS acts like it is the first time he/she heard of it.
 
Peyton is such a weasel, I wouldn't be surprised if he is telling Ashley to file a lawsuit so he doesn't have to get involved.
 
Peyton is such a weasel, I wouldn't be surprised if he is telling Ashley to file a lawsuit so he doesn't have to get involved.

I never thought of that, my hope is his (or hers if it tells enough) phone gets ripped apart and all these rumors of being a swinger with side dishes and their "open" relationship comes out. Just because of all the BS I still see in the tabloids about Tom and Giselle
 
The most telling thing in all this is that Manning or how wife have not stated what it is if anything, that was shipped to her. It's naive in the extreme that if this was all kosher that Ashley Manning would not have been trotted out in front of the media to give a tearful interview about getting treatment for Crohn's disease or something. Peyton and Ashley tearfully telling the truth to Barbara Walters.

The silence is damning. I don't buy for a second that it's simply that Manning wants to protect his wife's privacy. It does not add up in any way because the questions just get louder the more silent he stays. If there was a genuine reason why Ashley needed medication or it wasn't HGH but something else, we would have heard from her/Peyton's spokesman weeks ago. No way would they let this fester just to protect his wife's privacy.
 
The most telling thing in all this is that Manning or how wife have not stated what it is if anything, that was shipped to her. It's naive in the extreme that if this was all kosher that Ashley Manning would not have been trotted out in front of the media to give a tearful interview about getting treatment for Crohn's disease or something. Peyton and Ashley tearfully telling the truth to Barbara Walters.

The silence is damning. I don't buy for a second that it's simply that Manning wants to protect his wife's privacy. It does not add up in any way because the questions just get louder the more silent he stays. If there was a genuine reason why Ashley needed medication or it wasn't HGH but something else, we would have heard from her/Peyton's spokesman weeks ago. No way would they let this fester just to protect his wife's privacy.
He is hiding behind her. Clever PR strategy but no one is buying it. The ruse is up. His cover up has been EXTENSIVE right from the get go hiring a former white house press secretary and then sending the PI goons to his phony denials. The crapola is hitting the fan.
 
I never thought of that, my hope is his (or hers if it tells enough) phone gets ripped apart and all these rumors of being a swinger with side dishes and their "open" relationship comes out. Just because of all the BS I still see in the tabloids about Tom and Giselle

No (at least I'm pretty sure no). It being HER not HIM is total bullshit. Her subjecting herself to the discovery process here would IMO be insane. Much better that ashley tell him look hon, it's no big deal, I'm fine. just let it go and be the consummate goodguy again as usual.

Peyton: "it wasn't easy for her, but Ashley talked me out of it. She's a better person than I am (fish, fish, fish)."


Cheers, BostonTim
 
No (at least I'm pretty sure no). It being HER not HIM is total bullshit. Her subjecting herself to the discovery process here would IMO be insane. Much better that ashley tell him look hon, it's no big deal, I'm fine. just let it go and be the consummate goodguy again as usual.

Peyton: "it wasn't easy for her, but Ashley talked me out of it. She's a better person than I am (fish, fish, fish)."


Cheers, BostonTim


That scenario is definitely weasely enough for Peyton, but will his ego allow it?
 
Peyton is such a weasel, I wouldn't be surprised if he is telling Ashley to file a lawsuit so he doesn't have to get involved.

These days, it's Ashley telling Peyton what to do. She's got him by the nads.
 
U

As for the common sense observations, Ashley not receiving it from Guyer if it was legit is an unsupported leap.

The three reasons that you can legally get HGH are:

- Short bowel syndrome
- HGH deficiency
- HIV/AIDs wasting.

Would you disagree with the statement:

It is unreasonable that Ashley Manning would be receiving treatment for one of these very serious ailments from the Guyer Institute, a self-proclaimed anti-aging institute which was linked to illegally obtained HGH in 2007?

In the early days of the report, several doctors weighed in confirming that this is the case. Do you disagree with their assessment?

Manning didn't claim that every word Sly spoke was garbage.

Here's the transcript:

So tell me, Peyton, what was your reaction to the Al Jazeera report that you had human growth hormone mailed to your home while you were recovering from neck surgery?
“I think I rotate, Lisa, between being angry, furious, on and on, but disgusted is really how I feel—sickened by it. I'm not sure I understand how someone can make something up about somebody, admit that he made it up and yet somehow it gets published in a story.

It turns out that the report that drugs were mailed to his home while he was recovering from neck surgery was 100% true, and that Sly recanting that was completely false, and that Manning was aware of all of this the entire time. So far, nothing Sly has said has been remotely proven to have been made up. In fact, it's to the point where Manning's PR rep had to admit the bulk of Sly's accusation.

At the end of the day, we have a claim that Manning used HGH.

No, we don't. This is what Charlie Sly said:

“All the time we would be sending Ashley Manning drugs,” Sly told Collins, according to the Huffington Post, which viewed the documentary. “Like growth hormone, all the time, everywhere, Florida. And it would never be under Peyton’s name, it would always be under her name.”

Despite the claim of Ashley receiving it being recanted immediately after the release of the documentary by a source who may not even have been at the clinic at the time in question,

Let's just recap:

Sly: We shipped Ashley Manning HGH & drugs
Sly: I haven't seen the documentary, but everything I said it in was false
Peyton: I'm disgusted. Sly made everything up.
Fleischer: Oh, well, yeah Ashley Manning did actually receive drugs from Guyer.

What do you think when you read these conflicting statements?

I've seen it mentioned here that jumping to conclusions is bad, but it appears that for many of the people posting, it's only bad if it compromises the appearance of the Patriots or their players. If it's anyone else, facts and evidence aren't necessary, just the narrative that you want. It's pretty hypocritical, especially coming from a fanbase who has had to deal with nearly a decade of people doing exactly the same thing to you.

I really do applaud your instincts to wait for the facts. Unfortunately, there are several facts here, and they are very suspicious.
 
A lot of willingness to jump to conclusions about a pro athlete based on unproven allegations here.

It seems so familiar.
 
A lot of willingness to jump to conclusions about a pro athlete based on unproven allegations here.

It seems so familiar.

Except for 1 simple fact: there was never any evidence linking Brady to wanting the footballs below 12.5 PSI. The NFL admitted that to Judge Berman. There IS evidence that HGH was delivered to Manning's house.
 
Except for 1 simple fact: there was never any evidence linking Brady to wanting the footballs below 12.5 PSI. The NFL admitted that to Judge Berman. There IS evidence that HGH was delivered to Manning's house.

You're sure about that? It's now 100% that it was HGH?
 
To draw conclusions at this point is childish and ignorant.

Statements like this are meaningless, and your repeated name-calling undermines your desire to be perceived as the rational one. You are asking people not to think critically, when you yourself have jumped to conclusions:

After how badly the first source worked out,

What evidence do we have that caused you to come to the conclusion that Sly was completely unreliable, and that yet, his recantation should be taken at face value?

I don't think anyone here has asked for Manning to get 4 games. I just think everyone here has a healthy dose of skepticism over Manning's denial and ensuing actions, for good reason.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

Except for 1 simple fact: there was never any evidence linking Brady to wanting the footballs below 12.5 PSI.

This.
 
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