Pats 2nd Round #50 Pick -- Tyquan Thornton

No? Why not? What issues do you see that will prevent him from being worthy of a 2nd round pick?

Note: "because that's what everybody thought" is not a valid answer. If you've watched him then please enlighten me
as to why you think he wasn't worthy of going at 50. "Not fast enough" is another thing you might want to skip.

Thanks in advance.
It's the same old the draft experts slotted him late so therefore anyone picking him beforehand I recognizing his talents perhaps is reaching horribly. It's possible that the Patriots had not taken Thornton that he would have gone undrafted like JC Jackson.

I imagine if anyone had had the smarts to draft JC Jackson in the second round they would also have been pillaried by the media experts.

It's always the same thing: what is this player worth, what is his value, to YOUR team?

The final proof is not which players who didn't take but which players you DID. And if you took enough good players and be competitive year after year and your team building worked. Here is a team building philosophy each team has and it is designed to work to their advantage. Stand by your philosophy and consider this picks to simply be part of the process. To take no chances and not take the players you think will help your team because everyone else thinks they should go later to keep you in mediocrity the greater number of teams in the league.

You consider the Patriots drafted 31st or 32nd for more teams than not over the past decade, giving every other team a leg up on them in the draft, and in fact one year had a first round pick forfeited to nonsensical science, in the pats drafting it's actually been outstanding.

Just my two cents.
 
Imo, Thornton is far more polished than Watson.

I really like Watson, but I'll freely admit that he is exactly what you said he is and will likely need time and work before Rodgers trusts him.

I can't see much in Thornton's game that I don't like other than he's skinny, but that proves nothing one way or the other. Some skinny guys are
wiry and tough and some aren't so much.
 
It's the same old the draft experts slotted him late so therefore anyone picking him beforehand I recognizing his talents perhaps is reaching horribly. It's possible that the Patriots had not taken Thornton that he would have gone undrafted like JC Jackson.

I imagine if anyone had had the smarts to draft JC Jackson in the second round they would also have been pillaried by the media experts.

It's always the same thing: what is this player worth, what is his value, to YOUR team?

The final proof is not which players who didn't take but which players you DID. And if you took enough good players and be competitive year after year and your team building worked. Here is a team building philosophy each team has and it is designed to work to their advantage. Stand by your philosophy and consider this picks to simply be part of the process. To take no chances and not take the players you think will help your team because everyone else thinks they should go later to keep you in mediocrity the greater number of teams in the league.

You consider the Patriots drafted 31st or 32nd for more teams than not over the past decade, giving every other team a leg up on them in the draft, and in fact one year had a first round pick forfeited to nonsensical science, in the pats drafting it's actually been outstanding.

Just my two cents.

2019 Patriots draft was among the worst in the league. Picking up UDFA diamonds makes him a great GM but does not mask almost a decade of terrible actual draft picks as well. How many CB and WR bust picks have there been since Floyd Reese left, almost 10. And don't whine when you're the one talking about things beyond Dyquan.


Round 1, Pick 32: N’Keal Harry, Arizona State

Round 2, Pick 45: Joejuan Williams, Vanderbilt

Round 3, Pick 77: Chase Winovich, Michigan

Round 3, Pick 87: Damien Harris, Alabama

Round 3, Pick 101: Yodny Cajuste, West Virginia

Round 4, Pick 118: Hjalte Froholdt, Arkansas

Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

Round 5, Pick 159: Byron Cowart, Maryland

Round 5, Pick 163: Jake Bailey, Stanford

Round 7, Pick 252: Ken Webster, Mississippi
 
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2019 Patriots draft was among the worst in the league. Picking up UDFA diamonds makes him a great GM but does not mask almost a decade of terrible actual draft picks as well. How many CB and WR bust picks have there been since Floyd Reese left, almost 10. And don't whine when you're the one talking about things beyond Dyquan.


Round 1, Pick 32: N’Keal Harry, Arizona State

Round 2, Pick 45: Joejuan Williams, Vanderbilt

Round 3, Pick 77: Chase Winovich, Michigan

Round 3, Pick 87: Damien Harris, Alabama

Round 3, Pick 101: Yodny Cajuste, West Virginia

Round 4, Pick 118: Hjalte Froholdt, Arkansas

Round 4, Pick 133: Jarrett Stidham, Auburn

Round 5, Pick 159: Byron Cowart, Maryland

Round 5, Pick 163: Jake Bailey, Stanford

Round 7, Pick 252: Ken Webster, Mississippi

Now do that for the 31 other teams. :coffee:
 
I can't see much in Thornton's game that I don't like other than he's skinny, but that proves nothing one way or the other. Some skinny guys are
wiry and tough and some aren't so much.
I agree on both points (concerns about skinny and tough beats strong). In my 20's I was 6'5" 220# and pretty damn strong, but I learned to stay out of bar fights with tough little guys looking to prove how tough they were by beating up a big galoof. Saved me a lot of facial cuts and sore ribs. Now in my 70's and 250+ pounds, I get my ass whipped by 90# senior ladies in my Wednesday senior aerobics class at my gym. I suck wind and they just keep on jumping around like it's nothing.

WIthout looking it up, isn't Tyquan about the same size as Jameson Williams?

Okay I looked it up :D

Jameson Williams 6'2'' 179#

Tyquan Thornton 6'2" 181#
 
I agree on both points (concerns about skinny and tough beats strong). In my 20's I was 6'5" 220# and pretty damn strong, but I learned to stay out of bar fights with tough little guys looking to prove how tough they were by beating up a big galoof. Saved me a lot of facial cuts and sore ribs. Now in my 70's and 250+ pounds, I get my ass whipped by 90# senior ladies in my Wednesday senior aerobics class at my gym. I suck wind and they just keep on jumping around like it's nothing.

WIthout looking it up, isn't Tyquan about the same size as Jameson Williams?

Okay I looked it up :D

Jameson Williams 6'2'' 179#

Tyquan Thornton 6'2" 181#

I'm still glad you asked, but I'm going to ramble a bit here.

I would've been a happy camper if the Pats drafted Jameson Williams, but, since they didn't, I'm excited to see what Tyquan can bring to the table.

We've cobbled together some pretty good passing attacks in the Post-Moss era, but that one struck me as a perfectly balanced group where Moss "took the top off" and
everybody else benefited from the space. Of course, Moss was an otherworldly talent, but, while there is more than one way to cause problems the best way is to show
and use a deep threat successfully.

I was listening to Tom Curran the other day whining because he thought we should have drafted a slot guy and not bothered with wide speed. I think that's a backwards
way to look at it. Good slots are one hell of a lot easier to find than a wide burner that can beat the press, get open long and catch. This doesn't mean that Tyquan will
be that guy, but I happen to think he's got a much better tool bag to TRY to fill that role than anybody else we've had since Randy shot his way out of Foxboro 13 seasons
ago. He's got a chance to force the adjustments that will help everybody else in our offense. The windows will be a little wider for Mac and the box will be a little less congested
for TEs and the running game.

This is not some brilliant X and O scheme I've drawn up in my basement war room, but really just a feeling I've had watching teams lean in on us and daring us to beat them deep
and us being completely unable or unwilling to try.

I think we started to see a little panic here and there when Mac started hitting some deeper routes, but the arrows weren't really in the quiver and he was forced to thread
a lot needles in the short/middle, AKA our predictable breadbasket, to keep drives alive. That is one tough way to matriculate your way down the field and we had a lot of
decent drives that didn't end up producing much.

We've seen what Mac can be like with dominant wideouts and while he did not play with Jameson, he did have a great connection with Devonta Smith, who is another guy that
Thornton resembles quite a bit. Smith was an extremely polished and well-rounded WR despite being about the skinniest WR imaginable, yet he seems to
be able to play tackle football successfully without his shins snapping like matchsticks. Go figure.

Tyquan is no Devonta Smith in terms of his overall skill, but he's two inches taller, more than 10 pounds heavier and quite a bit faster than Smith. I like his chances of developing
a similar collaboration with our QB1 and being a big benefit to his career. I feel certain Mac will be able to work well with him early on and their names will start to become
linked together as a new identity for the Patriot offense.

I don't think this can be a fully realized thing in 2022, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them starting to put it together within the first half of 2022.

Given reasonable health, I don't believe Tyquan will be a rookie redshirt at all. Bill will see how hard he is to cover in Training Camp and give instructions to work out offensive
packages where he can contribute early on. I mean, shit......how many times did N'Keal line up last year with little chance of him being targeted or drawing coverage? If you're
going to use a decoy then you might as well have one that is the fastest player on the field. The kid is going to play right away is my guess.

There is nothing wrong with dreaming a little in the offseason and the one I keep coming back to is Thornton catching a couple of rainbows behind the D and leaving
everybody in the dust on his way into the Gillette endzone a couple of times. And won't that be some fun shit to see? Cue pandemonium and, eventually, the duckboats.
 
I'm still glad you asked, but I'm going to ramble a bit here.

I would've been a happy camper if the Pats drafted Jameson Williams, but, since they didn't, I'm excited to see what Tyquan can bring to the table.

We've cobbled together some pretty good passing attacks in the Post-Moss era, but that one struck me as a perfectly balanced group where Moss "took the top off" and
everybody else benefited from the space. Of course, Moss was an otherworldly talent, but, while there is more than one way to cause problems the best way is to show
and use a deep threat successfully.

I was listening to Tom Curran the other day whining because he thought we should have drafted a slot guy and not bothered with wide speed. I think that's a backwards
way to look at it. Good slots are one hell of a lot easier to find than a wide burner that can beat the press, get open long and catch. This doesn't mean that Tyquan will
be that guy, but I happen to think he's got a much better tool bag to TRY to fill that role than anybody else we've had since Randy shot his way out of Foxboro 13 seasons
ago. He's got a chance to force the adjustments that will help everybody else in our offense. The windows will be a little wider for Mac and the box will be a little less congested
for TEs and the running game.

This is not some brilliant X and O scheme I've drawn up in my basement war room, but really just a feeling I've had watching teams lean in on us and daring us to beat them deep
and us being completely unable or unwilling to try.

I think we started to see a little panic here and there when Mac started hitting some deeper routes, but the arrows weren't really in the quiver and he was forced to thread
a lot needles in the short/middle, AKA our predictable breadbasket, to keep drives alive. That is one tough way to matriculate your way down the field and we had a lot of
decent drives that didn't end up producing much.

We've seen what Mac can be like with dominant wideouts and while he did not play with Jameson, he did have a great connection with Devonta Smith, who is another guy that
Thornton resembles quite a bit. Smith was an extremely polished and well-rounded WR despite being about the skinniest WR imaginable, yet he seems to
be able to play tackle football successfully without his shins snapping like matchsticks. Go figure.

Tyquan is no Devonta Smith in terms of his overall skill, but he's two inches taller, more than 10 pounds heavier and quite a bit faster than Smith. I like his chances of developing
a similar collaboration with our QB1 and being a big benefit to his career. I feel certain Mac will be able to work well with him early on and their names will start to become
linked together as a new identity for the Patriot offense.

I don't think this can be a fully realized thing in 2022, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them starting to put it together within the first half of 2022.

Given reasonable health, I don't believe Tyquan will be a rookie redshirt at all. Bill will see how hard he is to cover in Training Camp and give instructions to work out offensive
packages where he can contribute early on. I mean, shit......how many times did N'Keal line up last year with little chance of him being targeted or drawing coverage? If you're
going to use a decoy then you might as well have one that is the fastest player on the field. The kid is going to play right away is my guess.

There is nothing wrong with dreaming a little in the offseason and the one I keep coming back to is Thornton catching a couple of rainbows behind the D and leaving
everybody in the dust on his way into the Gillette endzone a couple of times. And won't that be some fun shit to see? Cue pandemonium and, eventually, the duckboats.
Use him as a decoy...and throw a few to him once teams believe that you won't throw to him. Clever!
 
The odds for Thornton to be OROY are 10,000 to 1. I may put a 20 on that. I waste more than that on the lottery a week.
I wouldn't. Marcus Jones is going to be Rookie of the Year. :coffee:
 
I’m pretty happy with this pick. He won’t be a game changer or even consistent his first year, but he’s got the tools to force a defense to respect him right away. If he puts on 15 pounds of muscle he could be a real force by year three. This is a guy I’m willing to be patient with.
 
I’m pretty happy with this pick. He won’t be a game changer or even consistent his first year, but he’s got the tools to force a defense to respect him right away. If he puts on 15 pounds of muscle he could be a real force by year three. This is a guy I’m willing to be patient with.
Some receivers get it right away and are consistent from the getgo, and others don't. I'll withhold that judgement until preseason games, but why do you say he won't be a game changer? What do you know that I don't?IMO, he doesn't have to catch the ball to be a game changer, just draw the defense away and help open the middle of the field for Bourne, Parker, Meyers, and Hunter, He is FAST. He'll have to be doubled like Hill and other speed guys. The defense will have to put a guy over him and under him. If there is no one in front of him, he'll leave a trailing CB in the dust, If there's only one guy over the top, next play will be a curl.

This is the guy we've been waiting for. Not sure about 15 pounds, though. His job is to run fast, not fight for yardage. I'd like to see him slide like Deion Branch did before being tackled.
 
I agree on both points (concerns about skinny and tough beats strong). In my 20's I was 6'5" 220# and pretty damn strong, but I learned to stay out of bar fights with tough little guys looking to prove how tough they were by beating up a big galoof. Saved me a lot of facial cuts and sore ribs. Now in my 70's and 250+ pounds, I get my ass whipped by 90# senior ladies in my Wednesday senior aerobics class at my gym. I suck wind and they just keep on jumping around like it's nothing.

WIthout looking it up, isn't Tyquan about the same size as Jameson Williams?

Okay I looked it up :D

Jameson Williams 6'2'' 179#

Tyquan Thornton 6'2" 181#

I'm still glad you asked, but I'm going to ramble a bit here.

I would've been a happy camper if the Pats drafted Jameson Williams, but, since they didn't, I'm excited to see what Tyquan can bring to the table.

We've seen what Mac can be like with dominant wideouts and while he did not play with Jameson, he did have a great connection with Devonta Smith, who is another guy that
Thornton resembles quite a bit. Smith was an extremely polished and well-rounded WR despite being about the skinniest WR imaginable, yet he seems to
be able to play tackle football successfully without his shins snapping like matchsticks. Go figure.

Tyquan is no Devonta Smith in terms of his overall skill, but he's two inches taller, more than 10 pounds heavier and quite a bit faster than Smith. I like his chances of developing
a similar collaboration with our QB1 and being a big benefit to his career. I feel certain Mac will be able to work well with him early on and their names will start to become
linked together as a new identity for the Patriot offense.

I don't think this can be a fully realized thing in 2022, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them starting to put it together within the first half of 2022.

Given reasonable health, I don't believe Tyquan will be a rookie redshirt at all. Bill will see how hard he is to cover in Training Camp and give instructions to work out offensive
packages where he can contribute early on. I mean, shit......how many times did N'Keal line up last year with little chance of him being targeted or drawing coverage? If you're
going to use a decoy then you might as well have one that is the fastest player on the field. The kid is going to play right away is my guess.

There is nothing wrong with dreaming a little in the offseason and the one I keep coming back to is Thornton catching a couple of rainbows behind the D and leaving
everybody in the dust on his way into the Gillette endzone a couple of times. And won't that be some fun shit to see? Cue pandemonium and, eventually, the duckboats.

Since we're dreaming, I'm gonna have a little fun here doing something I've been thinking about.
Jameson Williams 6'2'' 179#, 4.40 40
Tyquan Thornton 6'2" 181#, 4.27 40
Devonta Smith 6'0" 170#, 4.44 40


Here's a highlight of Devonta Smith's last year at Alabama. Note who his QB is.
Mac Jones made Smith the Heisman Winner in 2020.



Now think about the possibilities with Mac throwing to Tyquan Thornton. Thornton's QB at Baylor in 2021 was Gerry Bohanon who did him no favors yet Thornton still produced.
Bohanon lost his starting job for 2022 and has entered the transfer portal. Bohanon is no Mac Jones.

Now compare Thornton's 2021 highlights to Smith's 2020 highlights above. Yeah, I know, highlights, but you can still get a sense of ability.
Imo, Thornton isn't far from where Smith was as a receiver in 2020 for Alabama.

As you watch, pay attention to Bohanon's 1/2 step drop, eyes on Thornton the entire time, set and throw. No favors.



I can easily project Thornton thriving with Mac as his QB.

Take it 1 more step and imagine Bohanon as Devonta Smith's QB in 2020 instead of Mac. There's no way Smith would have had the same success.
For that reason, despite having a lot of competition from Parker, Bourne and Meyers, I think Mac to Thornton will be productive this year
 
Since we're dreaming, I'm gonna have a little fun here doing something I've been thinking about.
Jameson Williams 6'2'' 179#, 4.40 40
Tyquan Thornton 6'2" 181#, 4.27 40
Devonta Smith 6'0" 170#, 4.44 40


Here's a highlight of Devonta Smith's last year at Alabama. Note who his QB is.
Mac Jones made Smith the Heisman Winner in 2020.



Now think about the possibilities with Mac throwing to Tyquan Thornton. Thornton's QB at Baylor in 2021 was Gerry Bohanon who did him no favors yet Thornton still produced.
Bohanon lost his starting job for 2022 and has entered the transfer portal. Bohanon is no Mac Jones.

Now compare Thornton's 2021 highlights to Smith's 2020 highlights above. Yeah, I know, highlights, but you can still get a sense of ability.
Imo, Thornton isn't far from where Smith was as a receiver in 2020 for Alabama.

As you watch, pay attention to Bohanon's 1/2 step drop, eyes on Thornton the entire time, set and throw. No favors.



I can easily project Thornton thriving with Mac as his QB.

Take it 1 more step and imagine Bohanon as Devonta Smith's QB in 2020 instead of Mac. There's no way Smith would have had the same success.
For that reason, despite having a lot of competition from Parker, Bourne and Meyers, I think Mac to Thornton will be productive this year

I'm glad that BB agreed with me that #1WR was a major need...
 
I'm glad that BB agreed with me that #1WR was a major need...

Well, as a long time fav and the greatest GPT poster ever, we KNOW Belichick has you on "follow" here at the Planet. :p

You and DKF, of course. :rolleyes:
 
Since we're dreaming, I'm gonna have a little fun here doing something I've been thinking about.
Jameson Williams 6'2'' 179#, 4.40 40
Tyquan Thornton 6'2" 181#, 4.27 40
Devonta Smith 6'0" 170#, 4.44 40


Here's a highlight of Devonta Smith's last year at Alabama. Note who his QB is.
Mac Jones made Smith the Heisman Winner in 2020.



Now think about the possibilities with Mac throwing to Tyquan Thornton. Thornton's QB at Baylor in 2021 was Gerry Bohanon who did him no favors yet Thornton still produced.
Bohanon lost his starting job for 2022 and has entered the transfer portal. Bohanon is no Mac Jones.

Now compare Thornton's 2021 highlights to Smith's 2020 highlights above. Yeah, I know, highlights, but you can still get a sense of ability.
Imo, Thornton isn't far from where Smith was as a receiver in 2020 for Alabama.

As you watch, pay attention to Bohanon's 1/2 step drop, eyes on Thornton the entire time, set and throw. No favors.



I can easily project Thornton thriving with Mac as his QB.

Take it 1 more step and imagine Bohanon as Devonta Smith's QB in 2020 instead of Mac. There's no way Smith would have had the same success.
For that reason, despite having a lot of competition from Parker, Bourne and Meyers, I think Mac to Thornton will be productive this year


Watching that long highlight clip of Thornton, I could see your point about Bohannon staring him down on most plays. It reminded me that my first impression of Tyquan
when watching Baylor this past season was that he was virtually the entire offense for a pretty good team. I paid attention to the opposition in that film and he was making plays against
Oklahoma, Texas, TCU, K State and other legit programs. They were like the Celtics just giving the ball to Jayson Tatum at the end of every tight game. You didn't have to
watch a ton of Baylor football to pick up on that.

So, that's not top SEC Ds we're talking, but he had a great year despite the defensive attention paid to him. That was one advantage that Devonta Smith had at Bama. He wasn't
the only threat on their roster.
 
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