Week 2, 2022 - Pats @ Pittsburgh

I see this catch by other teams every week and don't hear all the bull about should have been an int. In the other games they say he just went and got it from the defender and leave it at that.
Yup.

But other teams don’t have the haterz the Patriots do.

 
I see this catch by other teams every week and don't hear all the bull about should have been an int. In the other games they say he just went and got it from the defender and leave it at that.

Yup.

But other teams don’t have the haterz the Patriots do.

True. But I think it's more that we're ultra sensitive to all the comments about Mac's arm strength, and any evidence that cuts against our defense of him based on high-end accuracy.

Unless something breaks him, Mac's floor is "average NFL starter." I'm comfortable with that. I'm much less sure what his ceiling is. I tend to be critical because I'm digging to try to assess what the future looks like.

But realistically, until we get a decent read on Mac's "clutch" gene, and on his pure will/leadership that makes everyone around him better, we won't know.
 
True. But I think it's more that we're ultra sensitive to all the comments about Mac's arm strength, and any evidence that cuts against our defense of him based on high-end accuracy.

Unless something breaks him, Mac's floor is "average NFL starter." I'm comfortable with that. I'm much less sure what his ceiling is. I tend to be critical because I'm digging to try to assess what the future looks like.

But realistically, until we get a decent read on Mac's "clutch" gene, and on his pure will/leadership that makes everyone around him better, we won't know.
I agree about not knowing his ceiling but that is also hard to judge because he does not have high end talent. Look at what happened to Allen's game when he got Diggs these past 2 seasons. And now look at Tua since he got Hill. Also look how a QB like Rodgers is struggling without Adams. At some point, Bill or another GM needs to break the bank a little and get Mac a top end weapon.
 
I agree about not knowing his ceiling but that is also hard to judge because he does not have high end talent. Look at what happened to Allen's game when he got Diggs these past 2 seasons. And now look at Tua since he got Hill. Also look how a QB like Rodgers is struggling without Adams. At some point, Bill or another GM needs to break the bank a little and get Mac a top end weapon.
They spend to the cap every year. So it's a question of where you're willing to sacrifice, not tight purse strings.

To your point, I'm mixed. I kind of agree with you, but not for the same reason. Mac's style is one that can (and ideally should) be more successful with several B+ weapons vs an A+, an A-, and a bunch of C's. However, a lot of that still comes down to confidence, mojo, and buy-in from the rest of the team. No one complains about not getting the ball when everyone is confident that the QB is getting the ball to the best open option - you're just accusing yourself! And I think those things can be kick-started with the addition of a top-end weapon to develop the swagger/legend, and buy-in.

I mean, Brady won his first 3 behind a sick defense and running game, plus his game management and insane levels of clutch-osity. It wasn't until after 2007 that he truly became TFB with the swagger and mojo and belief that he could carry a team when called upon, and not just lead it.

...and I'll go a step further to say that the team didn't go back to being champions until he learned to blend those back together, and stopped trying to be the team and got back to putting the team in position to win. Those teams from 2006/7 through, say, 2012/13 so often felt...hollow? Not sure what the word is.
 
They spend to the cap every year. So it's a question of where you're willing to sacrifice, not tight purse strings.

To your point, I'm mixed. I kind of agree with you, but not for the same reason. Mac's style is one that can (and ideally should) be more successful with several B+ weapons vs an A+, an A-, and a bunch of C's. However, a lot of that still comes down to confidence, mojo, and buy-in from the rest of the team. No one complains about not getting the ball when everyone is confident that the QB is getting the ball to the best open option - you're just accusing yourself! And I think those things can be kick-started with the addition of a top-end weapon to develop the swagger/legend, and buy-in.

I mean, Brady won his first 3 behind a sick defense and running game, plus his game management and insane levels of clutch-osity. It wasn't until after 2007 that he truly became TFB with the swagger and mojo and belief that he could carry a team when called upon, and not just lead it.

...and I'll go a step further to say that the team didn't go back to being champions until he learned to blend those back together, and stopped trying to be the team and got back to putting the team in position to win. Those teams from 2006/7 through, say, 2012/13 so often felt...hollow? Not sure what the word is.
The return of Thornton will be yuge.
 
I agree about not knowing his ceiling but that is also hard to judge because he does not have high end talent. Look at what happened to Allen's game when he got Diggs these past 2 seasons. And now look at Tua since he got Hill. Also look how a QB like Rodgers is struggling without Adams. At some point, Bill or another GM needs to break the bank a little and get Mac a top end weapon.
You know this how? Based on those games primarily?
 
They spend to the cap every year. So it's a question of where you're willing to sacrifice, not tight purse strings.

To your point, I'm mixed. I kind of agree with you, but not for the same reason. Mac's style is one that can (and ideally should) be more successful with several B+ weapons vs an A+, an A-, and a bunch of C's. However, a lot of that still comes down to confidence, mojo, and buy-in from the rest of the team. No one complains about not getting the ball when everyone is confident that the QB is getting the ball to the best open option - you're just accusing yourself! And I think those things can be kick-started with the addition of a top-end weapon to develop the swagger/legend, and buy-in.

I mean, Brady won his first 3 behind a sick defense and running game, plus his game management and insane levels of clutch-osity. It wasn't until after 2007 that he truly became TFB with the swagger and mojo and belief that he could carry a team when called upon, and not just lead it.

...and I'll go a step further to say that the team didn't go back to being champions until he learned to blend those back together, and stopped trying to be the team and got back to putting the team in position to win. Those teams from 2006/7 through, say, 2012/13 so often felt...hollow? Not sure what the word is.
These are all good points but the league has changed from 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. The emphasis on offense via the rules and also the schemes and college concepts begs for weaponry, really demands it. The league is no longer designed for championships to be won the way the Pats did it in 01, 03, 04. I do think Mac would flourish with A end talent. But this year isn't just about talent but coaching. I am petrified of Patricia and the damage he could do to Mac. He has already made him more of a risk taker then he was last year as opposed to throwing to the open receiver. That approach is not one I hate BTW but it is not something you can do unless you have the top receivers to make those plays consistently. It feels to me like the coaching staff is a bit in no man's land. They want the offense and Mac to be more risky/explosive but they have not built the offense to be that type of offense.
 
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Knock the Pro Bowl if you want. I get that. I am trying to figure out why Patriots fans grade this kid on such a ridiculous scale. Yes, I know 18 years of non-crazy Brady is a tough act to follow, but so far he has done a fantastic job. The future looks bright to me. Belichick is building the defense a 2nd year (SECOND YEAR!) quarterback needs. We have seen this drill before. Run the ball, play stellar defense and let this kid grow. The constant between 2001 and 2021 is Belichick himself.

I think it is much more fair to grade this kid on the right curve while ehe grows rather than to grade him on unrealistic expectations for a QB with 20 games under his belt. Graded on the right curve, Mac has performed almost spectacularly given the OC change and don't forget the covid bullshit.

How many teams would trade for Mac Jones right now and plug him in?

Ceiling? No way to tell yet, but so far I have no reason whatsoever to think it won't be very high.
 
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Knock the Pro Bowl if you want. I get that. I am trying to figure out why Patriots fans grade this kid on such a ridiculous scale. Yes, I know 18 years of non-crazy Brady is a tough act to follow, but so far he has done a fantastic job. The future looks bright to me. Belichick is building the defense a 2nd year (SECOND YEAR!) quarterback needs. We have seen this drill before. Run the ball, play stellar defense and let this kid grow. The constant between 2001 and 2021 is Belichick himself.

I think it is much more fair to grade this kid on the right curve while ehe grows rather than to grade him on unrealistic expectations for a QB with 20 games under his belt. Graded on the right curve, Mac has performed almost spectacularly given the OC change and don't forget the covid bullshit.

How many teams would trade for Mac Jones right now and plug him in?

Ceiling? No way to tell yet, but so far I have no reason whatsoever to think it won't be very high.
I agree on so many parts. It's his 2nd year and he did well and above his peers that were drafted the same year and higher than him. We as Pat fans should be hopeful for the future. He isn't perfect but no QB is. And if people are still not liking this kid, well this is who we have. I choose to enjoy and have hopes down the road. Bonus, he is a decent young man compared to some other present QBs.
 
I would like to congratulate (although pretty much, all we did was root for them), all of us fans, who were there for the Patriots, from 2001-2018 (and, of course, the Patriots were there, for us). We were so lucky-even the non-championship Patriots had fine seasons. It's great to look back on. Hopefully, the team will continue to do well, but from 2001-2018, they were a great team.
 
Some of the antipathy toward Jones by some local fans and media is rooted in a number of factors, not the least of which is a combination of eternal Brady worship/Belichick hatred. Interestingly, a major source of Jones "love", for want of a better term, is the national analysts, particularly ex-players. But, I agree with those who are puzzled by the disregard directed toward Jones's abilities and accomplishments, particularly last season. Statistically he had one of the elite seasons ever by a rookie QB For sure, at times he's been deserving of criticism. But, the belittling of him is just unwarranted.
 
I would like to congratulate (although pretty much, all we did was root for them), all of us fans, who were there for the Patriots, from 2001-2018 (and, of course, the Patriots were there, for us). We were so lucky-even the non-championship Patriots had fine seasons. It's great to look back on. Hopefully, the team will continue to do well, but from 2001-2018, they were a great team.
I Iike to thank the fans prior to 2000 who suffered 1 and 2 win seasons(raising her hands)and stood by them through thick and thin and still do.
 
I agree about not knowing his ceiling but that is also hard to judge because he does not have high end talent. Look at what happened to Allen's game when he got Diggs these past 2 seasons. And now look at Tua since he got Hill. Also look how a QB like Rodgers is struggling without Adams. At some point, Bill or another GM needs to break the bank a little and get Mac a top end weapon.
Thornton deserves a chance...but, BB needs to keep adding weapons like he had in Alabama for Mac to have a good chance.
 
When TB12 started out, he didn't have the gun that he has now...that's why I believe that Mac can at least get a bit better with his arm strength.
Yup. So much this. Experience and work ethic will take care of the rest. That's why I say his floor is average, and maybe a bit above average.
 
These are all good points but the league has changed from 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. The emphasis on offense via the rules and also the schemes and college concepts begs for weaponry, really demands it. The league is no longer designed for championships to be won the way the Pats did it in 01, 03, 04.
Really? how many points did the Rams score in that superbowl? Lack of a run defense is a killer no matter what your passing is like. It's hard to complete a pass when your O sits for 6-7-8 minute drive that end in a rushing TD time after time. That 6 1/2 minute drive to close out the Steelers was nothing compared to how we ran on the Rams.

I understand your point on Mac's ceiling going up if he had a better weapons, and note that you applied the same criteria to Josh Allen (he's a much better QB after he got Diggs) and Tua (post Tyreek). But I submit that gaining WR talent did not make them better QBs, only that they are the same QB with better stats post-Hill and Diggs.

I think one of the marks of Brady's greatness wasn't him playing with Moss, Welker and Stallworth on the field in 2007, but rather in 2001 when Troy Brown was his #1, and David Patten and Fred Coleman as #2 and #3 WRs. Not to mention TEs Jeremain Wiggins (can catch but not block my grandmother) and Rod (hand of cement) Rutledge.

I don't think Mac Jones gets nearly the credit he deserves for reaching the playoffs with the receivers he had and as a rookie. All the focus was in losing the playoff game, but it's remarkable that we got there at all.
 
Really? how many points did the Rams score in that superbowl? Lack of a run defense is a killer no matter what your passing is like. It's hard to complete a pass when your O sits for 6-7-8 minute drive that end in a rushing TD time after time. That 6 1/2 minute drive to close out the Steelers was nothing compared to how we ran on the Rams.

I understand your point on Mac's ceiling going up if he had a better weapons, and note that you applied the same criteria to Josh Allen (he's a much better QB after he got Diggs) and Tua (post Tyreek). But I submit that gaining WR talent did not make them better QBs, only that they are the same QB with better stats post-Hill and Diggs.

I think one of the marks of Brady's greatness wasn't him playing with Moss, Welker and Stallworth on the field in 2007, but rather in 2001 when Troy Brown was his #1, and David Patten and Fred Coleman as #2 and #3 WRs. Not to mention TEs Jeremain Wiggins (can catch but not block my grandmother) and Rod (hand of cement) Rutledge.

I don't think Mac Jones gets nearly the credit he deserves for reaching the playoffs with the receivers he had and as a rookie. All the focus was in losing the playoff game, but it's remarkable that we got there at all.
Preach GIF
 
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