2002 VS 2020

Pape

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Way back when, 2002, the Patriots were coming into the season flying high, having won the first ever Super Bowl in New England's long and storied history...

In 2002, we opened the season, christening Gillette by decimating the stealers 30-14... That was pretty fantastic, if you can remember back that far...

Things didn't turn out so well though over the course of the regular season... we went on a 4 game slide, 3 before the bye, 1 after... standing 3-4 after week 8... If you remember back, we had offensive troubles in those losses, scoring 14, 13, 10 & 16 respectively... The team was able to adjust though, and made a game of it for the rest of the season...

2020 is shaping up much like 2002 did... the offensive problems can be fixed... but it all starts with Cam... we can't win unless we have at the very least the threat of a passing game... Otherwise, we will see teams just stack the box on offense ... If all we do is run ... yeah... you know the answer to that... Our tailbacks are ok, but they aren't great ... a run heavy offense can work, but there has to be the threat of a pass working...

How do the Pats turn it around?

Gotta simplify whats going on in the offense... More Options, if thats possible, RPO with short to intermediate passes... effectively forcing Cam to make a decision early if he is going to throw it or run with the ball... Cant let him think too much, got to force him to just play... either way we need to freeze / move the LB's and/or Safeties off the line... Cam gets into trouble when he holds the ball too long... The line is patch work right now, and cant sustain a clean pocket for 5-6 seconds he needs to make reads over the course of 60 minutes... I was actually half-elated in the last game when he threw the ball away instead of taking a sack... Can he get back into a rhythm though? we don't need 350 yard passing games... but we do need at the very least 190-250 yards on a consistent basis...

On defense... If the defense gets a chance to rest a bit they will be a bit more effective... Do we have any bodies to move back onto the line? run a base 4 down linemen defense? The lack of linebacker depth is killing us... Phillips is playing well, but when your dbacks are playing linebacker, things aren't gonna go well over the long run... Uche, man I hope this kid gets well soon.. we need something... and I hope he can contribute... Gotta get Winovich back into the mix... the last few weeks his snap count has dropped, and he has been lining up on the inside of the tackle in some sets... that's not his strength... he's not a d tackle... got to get him back on the edge...

Oh, and at the end of the season, think long and hard about poaching a free agent QB from another team... though the only quality qb hitting FA in 2021 is Dak... guy can throw the ball though... otherwise not much there...

If I am all wet behind the ears in my thought process here, let me know... what do you guys see as being the key to sparking a turn around? I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on 2020 quite yet...


.
 

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Way back when, 2002, the Patriots were coming into the season flying high, having won the first ever Super Bowl in New England's long and storied history...

In 2002, we opened the season, christening Gillette by decimating the stealers 30-14... That was pretty fantastic, if you can remember back that far...

Things didn't turn out so well though over the course of the regular season... we went on a 4 game slide, 3 before the bye, 1 after... standing 3-4 after week 8... If you remember back, we had offensive troubles in those losses, scoring 14, 13, 10 & 16 respectively... The team was able to adjust though, and made a game of it for the rest of the season...

2020 is shaping up much like 2002 did... the offensive problems can be fixed... but it all starts with Cam... we can't win unless we have at the very least the threat of a passing game... Otherwise, we will see teams just stack the box on offense ... If all we do is run ... yeah... you know the answer to that... Our tailbacks are ok, but they aren't great ... a run heavy offense can work, but there has to be the threat of a pass working...

How do the Pats turn it around?

Gotta simplify whats going on in the offense... More Options, if thats possible, RPO with short to intermediate passes... effectively forcing Cam to make a decision early if he is going to throw it or run with the ball... Cant let him think too much, got to force him to just play... either way we need to freeze / move the LB's and/or Safeties off the line... Cam gets into trouble when he holds the ball too long... The line is patch work right now, and cant sustain a clean pocket for 5-6 seconds he needs to make reads over the course of 60 minutes... I was actually half-elated in the last game when he threw the ball away instead of taking a sack... Can he get back into a rhythm though? we don't need 350 yard passing games... but we do need at the very least 190-250 yards on a consistent basis...

On defense... If the defense gets a chance to rest a bit they will be a bit more effective... Do we have any bodies to move back onto the line? run a base 4 down linemen defense? The lack of linebacker depth is killing us... Phillips is playing well, but when your dbacks are playing linebacker, things aren't gonna go well over the long run... Uche, man I hope this kid gets well soon.. we need something... and I hope he can contribute... Gotta get Winovich back into the mix... the last few weeks his snap count has dropped, and he has been lining up on the inside of the tackle in some sets... that's not his strength... he's not a d tackle... got to get him back on the edge...

Oh, and at the end of the season, think long and hard about poaching a free agent QB from another team... though the only quality qb hitting FA in 2021 is Dak... guy can throw the ball though... otherwise not much there...

If I am all wet behind the ears in my thought process here, let me know... what do you guys see as being the key to sparking a turn around? I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on 2020 quite yet...


.
That year, the defense really went downhill. The pats went from 6th in defense to 24th, that played some part in it. The offense moved the ball pretty good that year, but was not explosive, which would have been fine if the D stayed
the same. The next year, the offense got a bit more consistent but the defense became a juggernaut. The offense and D took a step back, but...it did not collapse into the worst offense that Belichick has ever had like it has now. I think that year is different than now. This is a rebuild in progress, that was just a lot of young players in transition, which on defense this year, that might be true, but offense needs some changes and work and some hard replacements.
 

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Way back when, 2002, the Patriots were coming into the season flying high, having won the first ever Super Bowl in New England's long and storied history...

In 2002, we opened the season, christening Gillette by decimating the stealers 30-14... That was pretty fantastic, if you can remember back that far...

Things didn't turn out so well though over the course of the regular season... we went on a 4 game slide, 3 before the bye, 1 after... standing 3-4 after week 8... If you remember back, we had offensive troubles in those losses, scoring 14, 13, 10 & 16 respectively... The team was able to adjust though, and made a game of it for the rest of the season...

2020 is shaping up much like 2002 did... the offensive problems can be fixed... but it all starts with Cam... we can't win unless we have at the very least the threat of a passing game... Otherwise, we will see teams just stack the box on offense ... If all we do is run ... yeah... you know the answer to that... Our tailbacks are ok, but they aren't great ... a run heavy offense can work, but there has to be the threat of a pass working...

How do the Pats turn it around?

Gotta simplify whats going on in the offense... More Options, if thats possible, RPO with short to intermediate passes... effectively forcing Cam to make a decision early if he is going to throw it or run with the ball... Cant let him think too much, got to force him to just play... either way we need to freeze / move the LB's and/or Safeties off the line... Cam gets into trouble when he holds the ball too long... The line is patch work right now, and cant sustain a clean pocket for 5-6 seconds he needs to make reads over the course of 60 minutes... I was actually half-elated in the last game when he threw the ball away instead of taking a sack... Can he get back into a rhythm though? we don't need 350 yard passing games... but we do need at the very least 190-250 yards on a consistent basis...

On defense... If the defense gets a chance to rest a bit they will be a bit more effective... Do we have any bodies to move back onto the line? run a base 4 down linemen defense? The lack of linebacker depth is killing us... Phillips is playing well, but when your dbacks are playing linebacker, things aren't gonna go well over the long run... Uche, man I hope this kid gets well soon.. we need something... and I hope he can contribute... Gotta get Winovich back into the mix... the last few weeks his snap count has dropped, and he has been lining up on the inside of the tackle in some sets... that's not his strength... he's not a d tackle... got to get him back on the edge...

Oh, and at the end of the season, think long and hard about poaching a free agent QB from another team... though the only quality qb hitting FA in 2021 is Dak... guy can throw the ball though... otherwise not much there...

If I am all wet behind the ears in my thought process here, let me know... what do you guys see as being the key to sparking a turn around? I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on 2020 quite yet...


.
Dak wants 40 mil a year to play, no thanks. Now he not have that leverage anymore, but he is not going to play for nothing.
 

Mazz22

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Not sure you can glean much. 2002 was eons ago. The game has changed so much. Teams basically win or lose today based solely on the performance of the QB.
 

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Not sure you can glean much. 2002 was eons ago. The game has changed so much. Teams basically win or lose today based solely on the performance of the QB.
This is true too, the pass game in general was a lot different back then. It was all about consistency than air raid throw the ball 50 times. Offenses were more methodical.
 

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I wanted JFS ever since Brady left. When we signed Cam, we signed Cam. He was our guy, sink or swim. I don't think I ever complained about the signing, or got too excited about it either. I think even if we win this weekend it is a long shot to make the playoffs. The AFC has a lot of pretty good teams this year and unless you win the division I don't see it. Only one team from the East is going to make it from where I sit. I want to know if JFS is the guy going forward. My opinion is to sit Cam or put him on the Covid 19/reserve list. Give the kid a serious opportunity to prove himself. I don't think Dallas would trade for Cam. I also think Cam will be signed by someone next year, so may have a 3rd coming our way if he goes.
 

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I wanted JFS ever since Brady left. When we signed Cam, we signed Cam. He was our guy, sink or swim. I don't think I ever complained about the signing, or got too excited about it either. I think even if we win this weekend it is a long shot to make the playoffs. The AFC has a lot of pretty good teams this year and unless you win the division I don't see it. Only one team from the East is going to make it from where I sit. I want to know if JFS is the guy going forward. My opinion is to sit Cam or put him on the Covid 19/reserve list. Give the kid a serious opportunity to prove himself. I don't think Dallas would trade for Cam. I also think Cam will be signed by someone next year, so may have a 3rd coming our way if he goes.
I agree with this. That was a big reason I did not want to bring in a Cam. Couple reasons, we do not know what Cam was going to be, second, he is not the teams future. We have to find out what we have at QB and adjust accordingly for years to come. If at some point Stid is not put in, and Cam does not get any better where does that leave us? Same position next year, not knowing what Stid is. When you rebuild and you draft a young QB you have to see what you have. As much as I hate using Miami as an example. They are doing well and yet are still going to put Tua in. Why? Because they are not going to win the superbowl with Fitz and he is not their future. You have to see what you have.
 
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Not sure you can glean much. 2002 was eons ago. The game has changed so much. Teams basically win or lose today based solely on the performance of the QB.
Like it or not, that is our current offensive mindset... We don't have the players to throw/receive 30 passes for 350 yards a game... We are the tortoise in the 2020 nfl race...
 

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I wanted JFS ever since Brady left. When we signed Cam, we signed Cam. He was our guy, sink or swim. I don't think I ever complained about the signing, or got too excited about it either. I think even if we win this weekend it is a long shot to make the playoffs. The AFC has a lot of pretty good teams this year and unless you win the division I don't see it. Only one team from the East is going to make it from where I sit. I want to know if JFS is the guy going forward. My opinion is to sit Cam or put him on the Covid 19/reserve list. Give the kid a serious opportunity to prove himself. I don't think Dallas would trade for Cam. I also think Cam will be signed by someone next year, so may have a 3rd coming our way if he goes.

Stidham hasn't exactly been lights out in the short sample size. I would love if he would get a shot to see if he can make it happen, but so far he has proven to be just as ineffective if not more so than Cam.
 

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Stidham hasn't exactly been lights out in the short sample size. I would love if he would get a shot to see if he can make it happen, but so far he has proven to be just as ineffective if not more so than Cam.
I agree, which is why I want to see him get the practice reps and then play a game or 3 to see what we have.
 

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Stidham hasn't exactly been lights out in the short sample size. I would love if he would get a shot to see if he can make it happen, but so far he has proven to be just as ineffective if not more so than Cam.
No, but its harder to just be thrown into blowouts. If they have him take all the first team reps all week and add into gameplan it might help.
 
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Dak wants 40 mil a year to play, no thanks. Now he not have that leverage anymore, but he is not going to play for nothing.
Offer him something unconventional... Percentage of the cap ... Moving forward it's a set expense you work around
 

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Offer him something unconventional... Percentage of the cap ... Moving forward it's a set expense you work around
Again not sure what he would do here. We do not have even a small percentage to the weapons he has in Dallas. That team is loaded around him and yet, its a struggle. He does not do game management well, he is under that idea that if you get behind you have to turn the game into an arena league game. He does not take time off the clock, he does not slow the game down, its all go deep, and score as fast as you can, and he has killer turnovers in the worst times. But the biggest reason is what I said, he is not going to play for what the pats pay QB's.
 
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Again not sure what he would do here. We do not have even a small percentage to the weapons he has in Dallas. That team is loaded around him and yet, its a struggle. He does not do game management well, he is under that idea that if you get behind you have to turn the game into an arena league game. He does not take time off the clock, he does not slow the game down, its all go deep, and score as fast as you can, and he has killer turnovers in the worst times. But the biggest reason is what I said, he is not going to play for what the pats pay QB's.
do not be in the mindset that what we have for receivers this year is going to be the same as next. I think we all see the writing on the wall for edelman, and as much as I love the guy, his days in New England will most likely end after the 2020 season... there are significant salary cap restrictions coming next year ... most likely there will be more talent available next year as teams look to pare their cap liabilities...

I do not honestly think the Patriots will make a run at Dak Prescott... not after that gruesome injury... nor do I think that they will pay the associated cost in signing a player who most likely will be tagged for a second time... But New England's options are limited because the answer to QB is not currently on the roster...

Prescott was mentioned only because he is the only quality starter who is set to be a free agent next year... Unless the 49ers do the unthinkable, you are looking thru a pile of jags next year as well... and we both know that they are not going to cut or trade Jimmy Galapagos, as my wife likes to call him...

We gotta do something, because what we have right now cannot compete...
 

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do not be in the mindset that what we have for receivers this year is going to be the same as next. I think we all see the writing on the wall for edelman, and as much as I love the guy, his days in New England will most likely end after the 2020 season... there are significant salary cap restrictions coming next year ... most likely there will be more talent available next year as teams look to pare their cap liabilities...

I do not honestly think the Patriots will make a run at Dak Prescott... not after that gruesome injury... nor do I think that they will pay the associated cost in signing a player who most likely will be tagged for a second time... But New England's options are limited because the answer to QB is not currently on the roster...

Prescott was mentioned only because he is the only quality starter who is set to be a free agent next year... Unless the 49ers do the unthinkable, you are looking thru a pile of jags next year as well... and we both know that they are not going to cut or trade Jimmy Galapagos, as my wife likes to call him...

We gotta do something, because what we have right now cannot compete...
Oh yeah I understand, and more then that, BB understands too. I just think right now, we need to see what we have at QB. Regardless if Cam comes out of his funk or not, I dont think we are winning the superbowl, so I think we need
to find out what Stidham is. If we dont we go into next season not knowing what he is. We draft him for a reason, and there is going to be growing pains, but at some point, you have to start thinking about the future at the Qb position and what we have or do not have.
 

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Dak wants 40 mil a year to play, no thanks. Now he not have that leverage anymore, but he is not going to play for nothing.
Dak is not going to be playing for ANYBODY... bones were sticking out of his ankle. He'll never be what he was, which wasn't all that great anyway
 

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Dak is not going to be playing for ANYBODY... bones were sticking out of his ankle. He'll never be what he was, which wasn't all that great anyway
It reminded me of that injury Hayward had for the celtics. I am not sure how that translates to the NFL, but Hayward was not really the same afterwards. Chev has a better grasp on medical stuff like this, not sure how it affects him going forward.
 

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The ankle is a complex joint. I'm on the side that playing football on the major reconstruction like he will need is not going to work out. If I was him I'd be happy to be able to walk again without a limp let alone get out there with 300 pounders landing around your feet all the time when you just don't have the same ability you had before the injury, leaving out the psychological doubts that he could be feeling with an injury as bad as that.
 

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The ankle is a complex joint. I'm on the side that playing football on the major reconstruction like he will need is not going to work out. If I was him I'd be happy to be able to walk again without a limp let alone get out there with 300 pounders landing around your feet all the time when you just don't have the same ability you had before the injury, leaving out the psychological doubts that he could be feeling with an injury as bad as that.
Yeah you could be right. I have been shocked before at things guys come back from, but if they are the same player is the question. He is very young though.
 
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Pape

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The ankle is a complex joint. I'm on the side that playing football on the major reconstruction like he will need is not going to work out. If I was him I'd be happy to be able to walk again without a limp let alone get out there with 300 pounders landing around your feet all the time when you just don't have the same ability you had before the injury, leaving out the psychological doubts that he could be feeling with an injury as bad as that.

more so than what Alex Smith came back from?
 
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