A Draft and Career Look Back at Ellis Hobbs, Logan Mankins, and Bethel Johnson

chevss454

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I think you've got a smudge on your war eagle glasses. :coffee:

True but not every player works out. Jon Jones worked out well. Wilhite didn't. Btw, looks like Stidham's time stealing money may be done.
 

PatsFan09

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The thing that’s a huge difference between Bethel and Thornton is height, isn’t it? I recall Bethel being short but fast. Tyquan is tall and blazing fast.


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chevss454

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In fairness, I was super disappointed Coates never worked out, he was really outstanding in college.

I don't feel sorry for him though. He's made around $5M in 6 yrs and is still playing in the CFL. He was electric in college.
 

PatsFan09

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I've heard Thornton being comped to Robby Anderson. Thornton only had a 58% catch rate in college.

Here's Robby Anderson's career. He played 6 seasons and put up around 700 yards per season with a 56% catch rate. Just setting expectations for this kid. I hope Thornton is better than Bethel Johnson but if he becomes Robby Anderson he's basically a #3 receiver. And the Pats have a major logjam at WR now, not enough balls and multiple players need to be shipped out to prevent disgruntlement.


Your obsession with catch rate is odd. Who was throwing to Thornton again?


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DropKickFlutie

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DKF High Quality Sports Take (tm)

I love that I live rent free in your head. What is this now, 4 straight posts of you posting garbage. Say hi to your mom for me.
:coffee:

And oh love the C's since the all star break after they fixed adding a bigman, getting a distributor, and jettisoning ball-chuckers. All things I noted as issues at the start of the season. This seems to be a major stick up your arse.
 
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DropKickFlutie

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Your obsession with catch rate is odd. Who was throwing to Thornton again?


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A receiver's job is to catch the ball. Just like passing percentage matters for a QB. What's your problem?
 
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DropKickFlutie

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catch rate is catches made/targets. It's not the same as passes dropped. QB accuracy has a lot to do with catch rate.

Yeah it's just one metric. A lot of other factors beyond 1 number, sure. I don't see elite NFL receivers having a poor catch rate though. So while a low rate might be explainable, the elite ones don't have a poor catch rate. We'll see if it was his QB. He also played against worse Dbacks.

Bourne and Meyers might still be the 2 best WRs on the roster right now and that's fine, both have 1000 yard potential plus you have 2 TEs who can both be dangerous in the passing game. Patriots Defense hasn't been fixed at all. No nose tackle and no insurance plan if the LBs don't pan out.
 

chevss454

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Yeah it's just one metric. A lot of other factors beyond 1 number, sure. I don't see elite NFL receivers having a poor catch rate though. So while a low rate might be explainable, the elite ones don't have a poor catch rate. We'll see if it was his QB. He also played against worse Dbacks.

Bourne and Meyers might still be the 2 best WRs on the roster right now and that's fine, both have 1000 yard potential plus you have 2 TEs who can both be dangerous in the passing game. Patriots Defense hasn't been fixed at all. No nose tackle and no insurance plan if the LBs don't pan out.

Maybe it's bc elite WRs have an accurate QB throwing the ball to them.
OBJ wasn't elite with Mayfield but was elite with Stafford.
Catch rate does not indicate a WR's skill.
 
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DropKickFlutie

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Maybe it's bc elite WRs have an accurate QB throwing the ball to them.
OBJ wasn't elite with Mayfield but was elite with Stafford.
Catch rate does not indicate a WR's skill.

True. There are elite WRs with not great QBs though and they have high catch rates. Just saying a low catch rate is worth watching. And if it persists on the Pats then the player needs to go asap (see: NKeal Harry)
 
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DropKickFlutie

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Let's see how well the Chiefs know their WRs since 2010(I can go further but trust me it doesn't any prettier)

Dexter McCluster(2nd round) - Drafted as a WR, more of a useless hybrid WR/RB, his best year was 52 rec, 511 yards, 2 TD
Jonathan Baldwin(1st round) - Less receptions and TDs than N'Keal Harry in his career, need I say more?
Devon Wylie(4th round) - No receptions, out of football after 2 years
Junior Hemingway(7th round) - 25 receptions, out of football in 3 years
Chris Conley(3rd round) - As Charles Barkley would say, just turrible
Da'Ron Brown(7th round) - Never played in an NFL game
Demarcus Robinson(4th round) - JAG
Tyreek Hill(6th round) - Good heavens they finally hit on one, kind of like how the Pats hit on Edelman huh? I wonder who has more rings....
Jehu Chesson(4th round) - 3 receptions, out of football
Tremon Smith(6th round) - I have no idea, he's listed as a DB for the Texans, never caught a ball in his NFL life, including by interception
Mecole Hardman(2nd round) - The jury is still out on this kid, let's see how he does with teams no longer double teaming Hill constantly
Cornell Powell(5th round) - Has not played an NFL game yet, not sure if he's still on the team

What a resume!

I've been saying this for a long time, people have it in their head that BB is terrible at drafting compared to other teams but not a single person ever actually puts it in real perspective. It's like a punch in the gut isn't it? I'm not saying there haven't been lean years, but when you actually look at it under a microscope, maybe it's not as bad as you think.

Good post. Why did you leave out Antonio Brown and all their hits? It's fine, they definitely missed a lot too.
The point about the Steelers was more posts I saw people justifying the Dyquan pick as if the Pats know better than other teams when they take a no-name guy with other names still left in the value grouping, when the Pats' WR drafting record is horrific. BB has a strong GM record mostly on the back of excellent late picks and UDFA pickups, and good 1st round picks during Pioli and Reese. There have been so many early pick whiffs the last decade that the luster isn't really there just because the Pats made the selection.
 
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DropKickFlutie

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Colbert has been in charge of the Steelers’ draft since 2000 and has selected 22 wide receivers during that time. Here’s how the picks break down during the Colbert era.

2019-Diontae Johnson (3rd round)

2018-James Washington (2nd round)

2017-JuJu Smith-Schuster (2nd round)

2016-Demarcus Ayers (7th round)

2015-Sammie Coates (3rd round)

2014-Martavis Bryant (4th round)

2013-Markus Wheaton (3rd round)

2013-Justin Brown (6th round)

2012-Toney Clemons (7th round)

2010-Emmanuel Sanders (3rd round)

2010-Antonio Brown (6th round)

2009-Mike Wallace (3rd round)

2008-Limas Sweed (2nd round)

2007-Dallas Baker (7th round)

2006-Santonio Holmes (1st round)

2006-Willie Reid (3rd round)

2005-Fred Gibson (4th round)

2002-Antwaan Randle El (2nd round)

2002-Lee Mays (6th round)

2001-Chris Taylor (7th round)

2000-Troy Edwards (1st round)

2000-Malcolm Johnson (5th round)

In terms of hits, Randle El, Holmes, Brown, Sanders, and Smith-Schuster certainly qualify. Guys like Bryant, Coates, Wallace and Wheaton are borderline players who never lived up to potential but had their moments. The rest of the list was utterly forgettable minus Johnson who has yet to get on the field.

Not exactly awe inspiring with far more draft capital invested than the Pats.

Thanks for the post and effort. Certainly trying more times will yield more hits.
Now do the Pats. Who are the misses and who has been the last hit, Branch? Edelman?
 
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DropKickFlutie

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Article:

"Whether it was the Boston Herald using the word “confounding” to describe the team’s haul, ESPN questioning the value the Patriots received out of their early-round picks, or the Boston Globe even going so far as to refer to New England as a “laughingstock,” New England’s draft was not particularly well-received by media and fans alike.

The Patriots finishing dead-last in a composite ranking of 18 grades handed out by draft experts did not come as a surprise. The writing was already on the well, when the Patriots selected a player out of left field in the first round."

 

Flagg the Wanderer

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Article:

"Whether it was the Boston Herald using the word “confounding” to describe the team’s haul, ESPN questioning the value the Patriots received out of their early-round picks, or the Boston Globe even going so far as to refer to New England as a “laughingstock,” New England’s draft was not particularly well-received by media and fans alike.

The Patriots finishing dead-last in a composite ranking of 18 grades handed out by draft experts did not come as a surprise. The writing was already on the well, when the Patriots selected a player out of left field in the first round."

Media IWII. The media HAS to seek and destroy teams that go against what they lay out as the value of specific players, or the entire industry of draft prep-as-media does when people realize it's useless.

A major portion of entertainment media's energy will always be spent justifying it's existence by tearing down anyone who flies in the face of it's collective wisdom.

To be clear, I'm not saying the Patriots picks are good or bad. But look at the overall collective wisdom of historical draft rankings. They're at least as bad as any team's track record, they're just utterly unaccountable. GMs that make safe picks in line with collective draft rankings are safe much longer than GMs who trust themselves and select based on their own scouting, even if they're equally right and wrong.
 

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TommyD420

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If this has some truth to it I would suspect that it's a product of serious discussion between Bill and Kraft over (Kraft's?) concerns about draft issues. It seems Bill is not one to eagerly surrender control.
I would think this would delight the "BB Sucks" crowd
 
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