A Little Lipstick for that Pig

Oswlek

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Before I begin please allow me to offer a humble apology for the grief I’ve given a few posters who were particularly down on the receivers. That was the worst single game performance I’ve seen out of a Patriot WR corps in my lifetime. Simply dreadful. Maybe the 2006 crew would have looked as terrible the first few weeks had Brown, Faulk and the TEs not been around, but when the debate has gotten that far, it wasn’t a good night.

That said, as the title suggests, I’m about to embark on a quest to demonstrate that this might not be representative of how the 2013 season will play out.

Already down their top 5 receiving targets from last year, NE lost their two best receiving weapons from the Bills game and their only currently viable TE receiving threat. Tack on the fact that NY’s front seven is legit – the main reason why I predicted they would surprise people with an 8 win season – and you have the perfect storm for this offense. No run game, no TEs, limited RB receiving options… the only thing left were the wide receivers. Not only were we talking about green WRs, but green WRs who hardly even practiced for the game! NE’s total preparation for Jets amounted to two walk-throughs. In retrospect, is it really a surprise that NE looked good for a drive and then went down the tubes? Those were probably the only plays they were able to get down.

None of this excuses the drops, of course. And maybe it would be harder to find a positive slant had the Jets drove for a game-winning TD at the end, but I did find it encouraging that Dobson was getting open regularly. For a guy who was last seen struggling to find headroom in a secondary of insurance salesmen and UPS drivers, he handled the jam cleanly and was able to get behind his defender often.

The misfire on 3rd and 14 particularly stood out for me. Aaron got past his CB easily enough, but that wasn’t the impressive part. After getting behind the defenders (two of them including the other LB who tried to pick him up as well) the safety came over and Dobson put a subtle move on that had him biting up, only to see Aaron blow right past him. It was the first time I’ve seen him make that kind of quick-twitch move instead of the lazy doubles that weren’t fooling anyone in the preseason.

Now, it is possible that making that stutter was what led him to be ever-so-slightly behind the pass instead of running right underneath it. But just knowing he has that in his bag of tricks makes me feel more confident than I was a week ago.

Of course, it wasn’t just Dobson that was struggling. Thompkins had an ugly drop (though it wouldn’t have converted the 3rd even if he got it) and failed to come up with several others as well. The overturned TD is probably the most memorable, and one can hardly fault Kenbrell for his effort there, but it is worth pointing out because it demonstrates another piece that was lacking last night, the timing between Brady and the receivers. Just like the rookies need time to acclimate to genuine NFL speed, it is going to take time for Brady to get used to his new toys in real games as well. Maybe once they are another 30 targets in, Tom takes a little off that throw and Thompkins doesn’t need to make an impossible catch.

I also think it is worth pointing out that Kenbrell looked more comfortable this week than he did in Buffalo. Maybe it was just a case of being at home, but if it was more a matter of adjusting to real bullets, that’s a positive sign, particularly when you consider that the team probably got limited film review of that game in, something that this long weekend affords them plenty of time for. Dobson looked to be having a similar first go of it as Thompkins did, so hopefully we’ll see an uptick from him as well.

Some of this will settle once a few bodies return. Edelman isn’t a #1 target, but as a #3-#4 afterthought with Gronk, Amendola and Vereen on the field? He can do some damage. That would also allow the youngsters to slide into complimentary roles that suit their strengths. For now, though, we need to grasp as positives, hoping that they are good omens and accelerating lessons for the rookies.
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A note on the defense: I know there are reasons to discredit what they’ve done so far. Neither the Bills nor the Jets look to be offensive juggernauts, rookie QBs, etc. That said, despite however many brash callers on WEEI exclaim how Bill will have [young QB X]’s head spinning, history suggests the exact opposite. As a game plan team, the Patriots tend to play those unknowns as straight up as possible, particularly when you are talking about a mobile unknown. At that point it is a vanilla city. Few blitzes, minimal stunting, basic coverages, stay in your rush lane to avoid giving up a big scramble. Unknown QBs have been Bill’s non-Shannahan Kryptonite. Yes, they win most of them (same as they do against any QB) but we can all recall plenty of “how’d the hell they allow 250 yards to that guy?!” games. And when those games happen early in the season, one with a rookie head coach? Yowza. The 2011 defense would have left two ROTY campaigns trailing in its wake.

You also can’t overlook the fact that the Jets had sixteen – sixteen! – possessions last night. And that they were often back on the field before moseying over for a Gatorade break. NE’s offense only had one drive the entire game last longer than three minutes; the 6 play, 14 yard conquest that rolled 3:15 off the clock before NY’s final drive. Seriously, read that again. Does anyone think that the Patriots win that game the past three years even against Geno Smith? I don’t.

I know we won’t know what they really have until going through the NFCS gauntlet that awaits in a few weeks. But I feel confident in already saying that this is the best unit NE has had for a while now. :dbanana:
 
That's a well written summary of everything I think most of us are seeing and a few of us are thinking with this team. I loved that Jets game last night. Yes it was frustrating and yes Brady acted the diva but that game was a special kind of ugly throwback. You're dead on balls accurate when you say it was a pig of game. A big fat dirty wet smelly hog running right through your family room dripping its filthy smell all over you.

This Patriots' offense shows how precarious greatness is in a sport with a frustratingly short season. There's not much time to improve. Our passing game wasn't the juggernaut we're used to but it doesn’t mean that these rookie wide receivers won’t develop. Kenbrell Thompkins still had some route issues but he also forced a pass interference penalty and came inches from making a diving catch for a touchdown if not for a throw that Brady could have thrown better. (sorry Middy, but it's true). Dobson had few issues with his hands technique at Marshall, but this was his first NFL game. Jitters are normal and the rain was torrential; give these kids their adjustment period. This isn't an easy game.

I know, there isn’t a lot of time for these receivers to get it together and help the team this season. Gronk should return soon to take some of the pressure off them. The learning curve remains steep either way. Hell, Chad Johnson is still trying the learn the Patriots offense. Keep that in mind before writing off any rookie receiver long-term. Time is precious and we already saw improvement in KT over a 4 day period. There's time to win but there's no time to lose.

In a few weeks Amendola and Vereen will be back. Add in Gronk and Edelman and we only need 1 of these rookies to get up to speed quickly for the stretch run. But for now, they all have to help clean up that hog. It may be a rough period and that hog may be around a few more weeks but I'm encouraged.
 
I appreciated Vince Wilfork's post-game comments when the commentators were trying to goad him into saying the game had stunk. Wilfork staunchly demurred saying no, he loved that kind of 13-10 game. Those aerial 40-3 extravaganzas of yesteryear left the defense feeling like an after thought - like it was pretty irrelevant whether they played well or not. Last night, defense took the game on their own backs and carried it across the finish line. He was reveling in the win, in the strength of the team, and their prevailing under pressure. Never said the game was anything but a triumph.

I thought Vince looked good in that lipstick!!

:pat::pat:
 
That was the worst single game performance I’ve seen out of a Patriot WR corps in my lifetime.

A bold statement, but I can't say you are wrong at least since Parcells. I think we've had less talented WR corps, but considering the injuries and shaky performances thus far......not a bad way to put it.

After getting behind the defenders (two of them including the other LB who tried to pick him up as well) the safety came over and Dobson put a subtle move on that had him biting up, only to see Aaron blow right past him.

I just watched the game again and paid attention to Dobson as much as I could. He was open a lot and while I'm not saying he didn't suck, I'd suggest that this kid has skills. For a tall guy he changes gears really well. He's probably quicker than fast and seems to get up to top speed in an instant and I haven't seen him look tired yet. Lost in all the drops was a particularly nice catch that wasn't replayed or zoomed in, but Dobson flung himself back across the grain to grab a Brady bullet behind him that he had no business catching.

I can see him causing problems for the other guys moving forward.




Unknown QBs have been Bill’s non-Shannahan Kryptonite. Yes, they win most of them (same as they do against any QB) but we can all recall plenty of “how’d the hell they allow 250 yards to that guy?!” games. :

That theory is embodied for me in the Kyle Boller game a few years back. Boller was a career stiff who, I believe, had one really good game in the pros and it was against us. And he was not alone. Stiffs feasted on us that year, but it's been a common theme for quite a while: the rookie, unknown or untalented QB that pushes us to the wire and has a career day.

I've come to believe more and more that BB goes the opposite of what most think. The book is to pressure kids to get them rattled, but I think he just lets them play straight up knowing that their big mistake will inevitably get us a W, concentrates on our stopping them from running or their team's ground game etc., etc. and I thought of that watching Geno tossing picks in the 4th Q.

We played Manuel and Smith with hardly a blitz. Looked like the same plan. Two W's. Just sayin'.
 
That's a well written summary of everything I think most of us are seeing and a few of us are thinking with this team. I loved that Jets game last night. Yes it was frustrating and yes Brady acted the diva but that game was a special kind of ugly throwback. You're dead on balls accurate when you say it was a pig of game. A big fat dirty wet smelly hog running right through your family room dripping its filthy smell all over you.

This Patriots' offense shows how precarious greatness is in a sport with a frustratingly short season. There's not much time to improve. Our passing game wasn't the juggernaut we're used to but it doesn’t mean that these rookie wide receivers won’t develop. Kenbrell Thompkins still had some route issues but he also forced a pass interference penalty and came inches from making a diving catch for a touchdown if not for a throw that Brady could have thrown better. (sorry Middy, but it's true). Dobson had few issues with his hands technique at Marshall, but this was his first NFL game. Jitters are normal and the rain was torrential; give these kids their adjustment period. This isn't an easy game.

I know, there isn’t a lot of time for these receivers to get it together and help the team this season. Gronk should return soon to take some of the pressure off them. The learning curve remains steep either way. Hell, Chad Johnson is still trying the learn the Patriots offense. Keep that in mind before writing off any rookie receiver long-term. Time is precious and we already saw improvement in KT over a 4 day period. There's time to win but there's no time to lose.

In a few weeks Amendola and Vereen will be back. Add in Gronk and Edelman and we only need 1 of these rookies to get up to speed quickly for the stretch run. But for now, they all have to help clean up that hog. It may be a rough period and that hog may be around a few more weeks but I'm encouraged.

It was not a perfect throw, but sometimes you throw it where only your guy can get it, and sometimes some receivers can. I know you have turned a lot of your frustration toward Brady this first couple of games, but to me you are in the pro's sometimes you need to play like a pro. But I do not blame any of the receivers, as Brady said, they are being thrown in and expected to perform like 10 year vets and they are not, I am upset a bit however at the team dragging their feet on outside receivers and then all of the sudden we have what you see. 3 rookies thrust in and expected to step up on a team that is expected to win every single game. That is not only frustrating to them, its frustrating to Brady and its frustrating to fans. You are quick to call Brady a diva, well sorry, but I want Brady to hate losing, I want him to be a perfectionist, I want him to want to be perfect and have the offense perfect, now with that said, he is not perfect and he would be the first to tell you that, so you choose to lump it there, and I choose to cut him a little slack. So any time in the future he throws a pass you don't like, you really do not need to use my name in saying so.
 
A bold statement, but I can't say you are wrong at least since Parcells. I think we've had less talented WR corps, but considering the injuries and shaky performances thus far......not a bad way to put it.



I just watched the game again and paid attention to Dobson as much as I could. He was open a lot and while I'm not saying he didn't suck, I'd suggest that this kid has skills. For a tall guy he changes gears really well. He's probably quicker than fast and seems to get up to top speed in an instant.

I can see him causing problems for the other guys moving forward.






That theory is embodied for me in the Kyle Boller game a few years back. Boller was a career stiff who, I believe, had one really good game in the pros and it was against us. And he was not alone. Stiffs feasted on us that year, but it's been a common theme for quite a while: the rookie, unknown or untalented QB that pushes us to the wire and has a career day.

I've come to believe more and more that BB goes the opposite of what most think. The book is to pressure kids to get them rattled, but I think he just lets them play straight up knowing that their big mistake will inevitably get us a W, concentrates on our stopping them from running or their team's ground game etc., etc. and I thought of that watching Geno tossing picks in the 4th Q.

We played Manuel and Smith with hardly a blitz. Looked like the same plan. Two W's. Just sayin'.



My only issue with Dobson if I can even be upset at all considering it was his first game, is I want him to go after the ball a bit more, every team needs a guy like that, we have not had one in awhile and I think he has the skill to do it.The drops, the being lost in a route, the not turning the right way, those are things that come over time, but I am not sure you can teach aggression toward the ball, that just has to be there.
 
It takes 2 to 3 years to properly develop a rookie wide receiver in all but the most rare of circumstances.
 
That may be true, but ours have a little over a week to get their shit in gear. :coffee:
Having Gronkowski will help. I know having Reggie Wayne on the field helped our young guys last year be productive.

And even then, TY Hilton who has a really good rookie season, put up the following stats:

50 catches for 861 yards. 7 TDs.
 
That theory is embodied for me in the Kyle Boller game a few years back. Boller was a career stiff who, I believe, had one really good game in the pros and it was against us. And he was not alone. Stiffs feasted on us that year, but it's been a common theme for quite a while: the rookie, unknown or untalented QB that pushes us to the wire and has a career day.

Flynn seems to have made a career off one game against the Pats
 
It was not a perfect throw, but sometimes you throw it where only your guy can get it, and sometimes some receivers can. I know you have turned a lot of your frustration toward Brady this first couple of games, but to me you are in the pro's sometimes you need to play like a pro. But I do not blame any of the receivers, as Brady said, they are being thrown in and expected to perform like 10 year vets and they are not, I am upset a bit however at the team dragging their feet on outside receivers and then all of the sudden we have what you see. 3 rookies thrust in and expected to step up on a team that is expected to win every single game. That is not only frustrating to them, its frustrating to Brady and its frustrating to fans. You are quick to call Brady a diva, well sorry, but I want Brady to hate losing, I want him to be a perfectionist, I want him to want to be perfect and have the offense perfect, now with that said, he is not perfect and he would be the first to tell you that, so you choose to lump it there, and I choose to cut him a little slack. So any time in the future he throws a pass you don't like, you really do not need to use my name in saying so.

I apologized to you in advance bc you are the only person here who would take offense to me saying Brady didn't throw the ball perfectly.

Think about that for a moment.
 
Before I begin please allow me to offer a humble apology for the grief I’ve given a few posters who were particularly down on the receivers. That was the worst single game performance I’ve seen out of a Patriot WR corps in my lifetime. Simply dreadful. Maybe the 2006 crew would have looked as terrible the first few weeks had Brown, Faulk and the TEs not been around, but when the debate has gotten that far, it wasn’t a good night.

That said, as the title suggests, I’m about to embark on a quest to demonstrate that this might not be representative of how the 2013 season will play out.

Already down their top 5 receiving targets from last year, NE lost their two best receiving weapons from the Bills game and their only currently viable TE receiving threat. Tack on the fact that NY’s front seven is legit – the main reason why I predicted they would surprise people with an 8 win season – and you have the perfect storm for this offense. No run game, no TEs, limited RB receiving options… the only thing left were the wide receivers. Not only were we talking about green WRs, but green WRs who hardly even practiced for the game! NE’s total preparation for Jets amounted to two walk-throughs. In retrospect, is it really a surprise that NE looked good for a drive and then went down the tubes? Those were probably the only plays they were able to get down.

None of this excuses the drops, of course. And maybe it would be harder to find a positive slant had the Jets drove for a game-winning TD at the end, but I did find it encouraging that Dobson was getting open regularly. For a guy who was last seen struggling to find headroom in a secondary of insurance salesmen and UPS drivers, he handled the jam cleanly and was able to get behind his defender often.

The misfire on 3rd and 14 particularly stood out for me. Aaron got past his CB easily enough, but that wasn’t the impressive part. After getting behind the defenders (two of them including the other LB who tried to pick him up as well) the safety came over and Dobson put a subtle move on that had him biting up, only to see Aaron blow right past him. It was the first time I’ve seen him make that kind of quick-twitch move instead of the lazy doubles that weren’t fooling anyone in the preseason.

Now, it is possible that making that stutter was what led him to be ever-so-slightly behind the pass instead of running right underneath it. But just knowing he has that in his bag of tricks makes me feel more confident than I was a week ago.

Of course, it wasn’t just Dobson that was struggling. Thompkins had an ugly drop (though it wouldn’t have converted the 3rd even if he got it) and failed to come up with several others as well. The overturned TD is probably the most memorable, and one can hardly fault Kenbrell for his effort there, but it is worth pointing out because it demonstrates another piece that was lacking last night, the timing between Brady and the receivers. Just like the rookies need time to acclimate to genuine NFL speed, it is going to take time for Brady to get used to his new toys in real games as well. Maybe once they are another 30 targets in, Tom takes a little off that throw and Thompkins doesn’t need to make an impossible catch.

I also think it is worth pointing out that Kenbrell looked more comfortable this week than he did in Buffalo. Maybe it was just a case of being at home, but if it was more a matter of adjusting to real bullets, that’s a positive sign, particularly when you consider that the team probably got limited film review of that game in, something that this long weekend affords them plenty of time for. Dobson looked to be having a similar first go of it as Thompkins did, so hopefully we’ll see an uptick from him as well.

Some of this will settle once a few bodies return. Edelman isn’t a #1 target, but as a #3-#4 afterthought with Gronk, Amendola and Vereen on the field? He can do some damage. That would also allow the youngsters to slide into complimentary roles that suit their strengths. For now, though, we need to grasp as positives, hoping that they are good omens and accelerating lessons for the rookies.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A note on the defense: I know there are reasons to discredit what they’ve done so far. Neither the Bills nor the Jets look to be offensive juggernauts, rookie QBs, etc. That said, despite however many brash callers on WEEI exclaim how Bill will have [young QB X]’s head spinning, history suggests the exact opposite. As a game plan team, the Patriots tend to play those unknowns as straight up as possible, particularly when you are talking about a mobile unknown. At that point it is a vanilla city. Few blitzes, minimal stunting, basic coverages, stay in your rush lane to avoid giving up a big scramble. Unknown QBs have been Bill’s non-Shannahan Kryptonite. Yes, they win most of them (same as they do against any QB) but we can all recall plenty of “how’d the hell they allow 250 yards to that guy?!” games. And when those games happen early in the season, one with a rookie head coach? Yowza. The 2011 defense would have left two ROTY campaigns trailing in its wake.

You also can’t overlook the fact that the Jets had sixteen – sixteen! – possessions last night. And that they were often back on the field before moseying over for a Gatorade break. NE’s offense only had one drive the entire game last longer than three minutes; the 6 play, 14 yard conquest that rolled 3:15 off the clock before NY’s final drive. Seriously, read that again. Does anyone think that the Patriots win that game the past three years even against Geno Smith? I don’t.

I know we won’t know what they really have until going through the NFCS gauntlet that awaits in a few weeks. But I feel confident in already saying that this is the best unit NE has had for a while now. :dbanana:

I'll just say that I do think KT will be OK, but I'm not at all sure yet about the other rookie receivers, but I want them to play and see how they develop. It's really good that the first 3 games are against bad teams, so we don't have to make a panic move yet.

Atlanta is when the season starts for real (and it wouldn't surprise me if the Pats have been holding some stuff back).
 
I'll just say that I do think KT will be OK, but I'm not at all sure yet about the other rookie receivers, but I want them to play and see how they develop. It's really good that the first 3 games are against bad teams, so we don't have to make a panic move yet.

Atlanta is when the season starts for real (and it wouldn't surprise me if the Pats have been holding some stuff back).


Hopefully the ability to catch the ball :)
 
This is a great thread and exemplifies what I love about this board.

In 2001, we lost to the Rams at home, in November! Our record stood at 5-5.

We finishes the regular season at 5-5 and you know the rest of the story.

Belichick has decided to rebuild the receiving corps and we are MILES ABOVE that 2001 team at this point in the season
 
It takes 2 to 3 years to properly develop a rookie wide receiver in all but the most rare of circumstances.

That is true in ordinary circumstances in which the youngster earns only an occasional snap, other than practice. It is not how long it takes when you are force-fed into the the team, such as many occur in an expansion team environment, or tn this case the WR is being force fed and the team is accepting the immaturity, striving to condesne the development of the demonstrable talent. :spock:
 
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