TommyD420
Wherefore Art Thou?
You're damned right it would.
Are you happy with the Drake Maye pick?
- Thread starter ParanoidPatriot
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Who was the fool that started this thread.
While he's trending in the right direction in spectacular fashion I rather wait and see if he's able to sustain it.
The way he makes it look effortless tells me it's definitely possible.
But I can't help but remember Mac Jones looked really good initially. Not saying Maye is on that type of level as he's shown to be way more mentally tough... I'm just a bit snakebit I guess it's what I'm trying to say.
The Bills game will be very telling in his progression, though.
The way he makes it look effortless tells me it's definitely possible.
But I can't help but remember Mac Jones looked really good initially. Not saying Maye is on that type of level as he's shown to be way more mentally tough... I'm just a bit snakebit I guess it's what I'm trying to say.
The Bills game will be very telling in his progression, though.
rivshark86
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He’s got to continue to protect himself when he runs.
There was one last Sunday where he went up the middle and did slide, but I held my breath. I’d rather see a loss than another concussion.
There was one last Sunday where he went up the middle and did slide, but I held my breath. I’d rather see a loss than another concussion.
In the 'did you know' department,
Drake Maye has had a different Offensive Coordinator and a different offensive scheme every year since high school.
That is 5 straight different OCs.
Imagine what 2 straight years with the same offense could do for Maye.
Drake Maye has had a different Offensive Coordinator and a different offensive scheme every year since high school.
That is 5 straight different OCs.
Imagine what 2 straight years with the same offense could do for Maye.
TipRoast
Be not simply good - be good for something.
Surely some dumb nfl owner will want hire Josh away if he develops Maye.
HSanders
R.I.P. Hawgie 💔
I hope by now he realizes he's an OC and he just stays that way.Surely some dumb nfl owner will want hire Josh away if he develops Maye.
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Fools are everywhere. Could even be PP/Who was the fool that started this thread.
Cheers
By Andrew Callahan | acallahan@bostonherald.com
PUBLISHED: October 2, 2025 at 5:00 AM EDT
FOXBORO — Warning: blasphemy below.
Sports sacrilege.
The type of column you can get away with in any other city, but not here.
Still, here goes a Hail Mary, because all unsaid prayers go unanswered.
The Patriots can lose Sunday night in Buffalo and still leave with a victory.
A moral victory.
And that shouldn’t be discounted.
I know, I know. Pathetic. Ugly. A verbal participation trophy for professionals living in, working for and representing the city of champions.
But here’s the truth about the Patriots’ most anticipated regular-season game in almost four years: they will almost assuredly lose.
History says so. Oddsmakers say so. Anyone who has watched the Bills since Josh Allen developed into a superhero with shoulder pads should say so; not to mention the Pats’ last half-decade spent as spectacular losers.
This is a measuring stick game. Nothing more, nothing less. Mike Vrabel gave voice to that idea in his post-game press conference Sunday, his mind having already drifted from the Panthers to a more telling test ahead.
“It’s going to be a great environment (in Buffalo),” Vrabel said, “and hopefully we’ll see where we’re at.”
Despite the building mid-week hype, Sunday will be far less significant than the Patriots’ last most-anticipated regular-season game: a home duel with the Bills in 2021 that served as a de facto division championship. That day in December 2021, Buffalo didn’t punt once over a 33-21 win. Three weeks later, the Bills obliterated the Patriots over a 47-17 Wild Card playoff blowout while, again, never punting.
That was the last Patriots team to finish with a winning record. Since then, Buffalo has become the AFC East standard, the bar by which their division rivals measure themselves. And it all starts with Allen.
Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen (17) looks to pass on the run during the second half of an NFL game against the New England Patriots on Sunday, Jan. 8, 2023 in Orchard Park. (AP Photo/Adrian Kraus)
Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen (17) looks to pass on the run during the second half of an NFL game against the New England Patriots on Sunday, Jan. 8, 2023 in Orchard Park. (AP Photo/Adrian Kraus)
“There’s a reason that he’s up there in the MVP every year and that his teams are very successful,” Vrabel said. “I’ve got a lot of respect for him, and he knows that.”
If the Patriots can graze that bar because of their coach and quarterback, just five games into the Vrabel era, that’s a win. That’s further proof of their potential as a playoff-caliber team with bigger dreams down the road.
Winning, of course, is the goal. But there will be no shame in a hard-fought loss to the clear-cut Super Bowl favorites that comes down to the fourth quarter, especially if Drake Maye plays well.
Because understanding where you are means knowing where you’ve come from. And the Pats — in case you recently awoke from the world’s best-timed sports coma — just puked up back-to-back 4-13 seasons. That is who they are right now. And that is what they are trying to run from by gunning for Buffalo, a model organization winning games by an average margin of more than 10 points this season that hasn’t lost the turnover battle in a record 26 straight games.
“What coach Vrabel says is, that’s where we want to go,” Maye said. “Where we want to be at is where the Bills have been the past couple years: contenders, winning the division and playing well at home.”
Granted, signs of change are already afoot in Foxboro.
The 29-point loss the Patriots handed Carolina last weekend was the type of punishment not seen in New England since the Pats last made the playoffs. Maye is playing the best football of any Patriots quarterback since Tom Brady. His ongoing development is the best possible case for the Patriots eventually completing their franchise renaissance, just as Allen’s once was for the Bills.
www.bostonherald.com
PUBLISHED: October 2, 2025 at 5:00 AM EDT
FOXBORO — Warning: blasphemy below.
Sports sacrilege.
The type of column you can get away with in any other city, but not here.
Still, here goes a Hail Mary, because all unsaid prayers go unanswered.
The Patriots can lose Sunday night in Buffalo and still leave with a victory.
A moral victory.
And that shouldn’t be discounted.
I know, I know. Pathetic. Ugly. A verbal participation trophy for professionals living in, working for and representing the city of champions.
But here’s the truth about the Patriots’ most anticipated regular-season game in almost four years: they will almost assuredly lose.
History says so. Oddsmakers say so. Anyone who has watched the Bills since Josh Allen developed into a superhero with shoulder pads should say so; not to mention the Pats’ last half-decade spent as spectacular losers.
This is a measuring stick game. Nothing more, nothing less. Mike Vrabel gave voice to that idea in his post-game press conference Sunday, his mind having already drifted from the Panthers to a more telling test ahead.
“It’s going to be a great environment (in Buffalo),” Vrabel said, “and hopefully we’ll see where we’re at.”
Despite the building mid-week hype, Sunday will be far less significant than the Patriots’ last most-anticipated regular-season game: a home duel with the Bills in 2021 that served as a de facto division championship. That day in December 2021, Buffalo didn’t punt once over a 33-21 win. Three weeks later, the Bills obliterated the Patriots over a 47-17 Wild Card playoff blowout while, again, never punting.
That was the last Patriots team to finish with a winning record. Since then, Buffalo has become the AFC East standard, the bar by which their division rivals measure themselves. And it all starts with Allen.
Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen (17) looks to pass on the run during the second half of an NFL game against the New England Patriots on Sunday, Jan. 8, 2023 in Orchard Park. (AP Photo/Adrian Kraus)
Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen (17) looks to pass on the run during the second half of an NFL game against the New England Patriots on Sunday, Jan. 8, 2023 in Orchard Park. (AP Photo/Adrian Kraus)
“There’s a reason that he’s up there in the MVP every year and that his teams are very successful,” Vrabel said. “I’ve got a lot of respect for him, and he knows that.”
If the Patriots can graze that bar because of their coach and quarterback, just five games into the Vrabel era, that’s a win. That’s further proof of their potential as a playoff-caliber team with bigger dreams down the road.
Winning, of course, is the goal. But there will be no shame in a hard-fought loss to the clear-cut Super Bowl favorites that comes down to the fourth quarter, especially if Drake Maye plays well.
Because understanding where you are means knowing where you’ve come from. And the Pats — in case you recently awoke from the world’s best-timed sports coma — just puked up back-to-back 4-13 seasons. That is who they are right now. And that is what they are trying to run from by gunning for Buffalo, a model organization winning games by an average margin of more than 10 points this season that hasn’t lost the turnover battle in a record 26 straight games.
“What coach Vrabel says is, that’s where we want to go,” Maye said. “Where we want to be at is where the Bills have been the past couple years: contenders, winning the division and playing well at home.”
Granted, signs of change are already afoot in Foxboro.
The 29-point loss the Patriots handed Carolina last weekend was the type of punishment not seen in New England since the Pats last made the playoffs. Maye is playing the best football of any Patriots quarterback since Tom Brady. His ongoing development is the best possible case for the Patriots eventually completing their franchise renaissance, just as Allen’s once was for the Bills.
Callahan: Why the Patriots can still ‘win’ at Buffalo even if they lose
It’s rare any Boston team can claim a moral victory. But if the Patriots push the Bills in defeat Sunday night, that’s exactly what it should be.
www.bostonherald.com
I don't get why Kyed compares Maye to Josh Allen's early career. We know Allen was more than a little raw coming in. Oh well, here it is.
www.bostonherald.com
By Doug Kyed | dkyed@bostonherald.com
PUBLISHED: October 2, 2025 at 5:00 AM EDT
FOXBORO — Patriots head coach sent out a reminder Monday that he’s not big into comparisons when asked on WEEI if he sees any similarities between Drake Maye and Josh Allen.
It’s unfair to compare Maye, in his second season, to Allen today. The Patriots quarterback has only started 16 games in his NFL career. The Bills QB is coming off an NFL MVP campaign.
But Maye stacks up shockingly well when you look at where Allen was at 16 games into his own NFL career. Allen played in 12 games during his 2018 rookie season and has only missed one game since 2019. It took Allen until Year 3 to become the Allen we know today as a perennial Pro Bowl selection.
Let’s look at the raw numbers first.
Allen through his first season and a quarter: 248-of-451, 55%, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yards per attempt, 13 touchdown passes, 18 interceptions, 68.4 passer rating, 37 sacks, 4 fumbles lost, 120 rushing attempts, 762 rushing yards, 11 rushing touchdowns
Maye through his first season and a quarter: 316-of-461, 68.5%, 3,264 yards, 7.1 yards per attempt, 22 touchdown passes, 12 interceptions, 93.8 passer rating, 47 sacks, 7 fumbles lost, 78 rushing attempts, 519 rushing yards, 4 rushing touchdowns
Allen was much more raw than Maye coming out of college, but those passing numbers aren’t even close. Maye has a 13.5% advantage in completion percentage and a 25.4 edge in passer rating.
It doesn’t help Allen’s numbers that he was a turnover machine to begin Year 2, with six interceptions to three touchdown passes and two fumbles lost.
Those are just raw numbers, however, and they don’t tell the full story.
Allen had a negative EPA per dropback through his first season, plus first four starts of 2019. His total EPA per dropback in that span was -0.09. His EPA per dropback in 2018 was -0.17, and his EPA per dropback through the first four games of his second season was -0.06.
Maye has a positive EPA per dropback in that same span of his career. His total EPA per dropback so far, though 16 starts, is 0.01. His EPA per dropback as a rookie was -0.07, and his EPA per dropback through four games this season is a significantly improved 0.23.
That doesn’t account for strength of opponent, however. But QBR and DVOA do.
Allen’s QBR was 49.8 in 2018 and 49.4 in his entire second season.
Maye’s QBR as a rookie was 55.2, and his QBR through four games this season is 57.7.
Allen’s DVOA in 2019 was -28.1%. Maye’s DVOA through four games this season is 1.6%.
Maye, through four games, also has the edge over Year 2 Allen in turnover-worthy play rate (4.1% to 4.7%), success rate (57.7% to 48.1%) and completion percentage over expected (8.7 to -10.0).
Maye has a 73.9 PFF grade through four starts this season. Allen’s PFF grade in year two was a 64.1. Allen had just one game over that 73.9 mark in his first four starts of 2019.
Allen took an unprecedented leap forward in Year 3, going from a below-average starting quarterback in nearly all passing metrics to finishing second in MVP voting.
“I think he’s done a much better job of taking care of the football,” Vrabel said about Allen since 2020. “And really that’s been the big difference for me. Just watching it from afar, a few years ago, forcing things in the red zone, and that led to some turnovers, some interceptions. And now I think he just has a greater understanding of taking care of the football in those situations. And they’re still scoring touchdowns.”
Allen earned a 90.3 PFF grade and 76.6 QBR in 2020. Maye isn’t at that point yet, and he might never get there. But Maye has shown that he can take a significant step forward already through four games of his second season, and the Patriots’ offense as a whole should continue to add pieces to help their young quarterback.
Wide receiver Stefon Diggs, who has played with both players, can understand the comparisons.
“I was with a young Josh. I mean, he wasn’t that young, and then, obviously, I’m with a young Drake right now, but I see the similarities,” Diggs said. “I try not to get into player comparisons at all. They’re two different young men. But I see why they say that. They all play with that mindset, that dawg mindset, and I see Drake coming along the same way. So I see why. I try not to get into much of comparison, two different men, two different grown-ups.”
Another area where Maye is currently behind Allen at the same point in their careers is in wins. Allen was 8-7 as a starter through his first season and first four games of Year 2. Maye is just 5-11, and two of those wins don’t really count. Jacoby Brissett came back to win for one of those victories, and Maye played just one series in the Patriots’ season finale last year.
“He wants the ball in his hands to win the game,” Maye said of Allen. “With the game on the line, the ball is in Josh’s hand a lot, and he ends up making the play. That’s what I’ve learned. He’s so versatile. I think that’s what makes it so tough on defenses is what he can do, extend plays, play in the pocket. In the running game, he has the extra hat, and he’s commanding the offense. He’s been doing that for a while at a very high level, and like I said, it’s fun to watch, but now we’re playing against him.”
The Bills had a stronger roster at the time, however. And Maye has proven he can play winning football this season.
The Patriots play the Bills again in Week 15. It will be interesting to check in on Maye’s progression again late in the season.
Drake Maye vs. Josh Allen: How Patriots, Bills QBs compare through 16 games
How Drake Maye stacks up against Josh Allen through the first season and a quarter of their careers.
www.bostonherald.com
By Doug Kyed | dkyed@bostonherald.com
PUBLISHED: October 2, 2025 at 5:00 AM EDT
FOXBORO — Patriots head coach sent out a reminder Monday that he’s not big into comparisons when asked on WEEI if he sees any similarities between Drake Maye and Josh Allen.
It’s unfair to compare Maye, in his second season, to Allen today. The Patriots quarterback has only started 16 games in his NFL career. The Bills QB is coming off an NFL MVP campaign.
But Maye stacks up shockingly well when you look at where Allen was at 16 games into his own NFL career. Allen played in 12 games during his 2018 rookie season and has only missed one game since 2019. It took Allen until Year 3 to become the Allen we know today as a perennial Pro Bowl selection.
Let’s look at the raw numbers first.
Allen through his first season and a quarter: 248-of-451, 55%, 2,977 yards, 6.6 yards per attempt, 13 touchdown passes, 18 interceptions, 68.4 passer rating, 37 sacks, 4 fumbles lost, 120 rushing attempts, 762 rushing yards, 11 rushing touchdowns
Maye through his first season and a quarter: 316-of-461, 68.5%, 3,264 yards, 7.1 yards per attempt, 22 touchdown passes, 12 interceptions, 93.8 passer rating, 47 sacks, 7 fumbles lost, 78 rushing attempts, 519 rushing yards, 4 rushing touchdowns
Allen was much more raw than Maye coming out of college, but those passing numbers aren’t even close. Maye has a 13.5% advantage in completion percentage and a 25.4 edge in passer rating.
It doesn’t help Allen’s numbers that he was a turnover machine to begin Year 2, with six interceptions to three touchdown passes and two fumbles lost.
Those are just raw numbers, however, and they don’t tell the full story.
Allen had a negative EPA per dropback through his first season, plus first four starts of 2019. His total EPA per dropback in that span was -0.09. His EPA per dropback in 2018 was -0.17, and his EPA per dropback through the first four games of his second season was -0.06.
Maye has a positive EPA per dropback in that same span of his career. His total EPA per dropback so far, though 16 starts, is 0.01. His EPA per dropback as a rookie was -0.07, and his EPA per dropback through four games this season is a significantly improved 0.23.
That doesn’t account for strength of opponent, however. But QBR and DVOA do.
Allen’s QBR was 49.8 in 2018 and 49.4 in his entire second season.
Maye’s QBR as a rookie was 55.2, and his QBR through four games this season is 57.7.
Allen’s DVOA in 2019 was -28.1%. Maye’s DVOA through four games this season is 1.6%.
Maye, through four games, also has the edge over Year 2 Allen in turnover-worthy play rate (4.1% to 4.7%), success rate (57.7% to 48.1%) and completion percentage over expected (8.7 to -10.0).
Maye has a 73.9 PFF grade through four starts this season. Allen’s PFF grade in year two was a 64.1. Allen had just one game over that 73.9 mark in his first four starts of 2019.
Allen took an unprecedented leap forward in Year 3, going from a below-average starting quarterback in nearly all passing metrics to finishing second in MVP voting.
“I think he’s done a much better job of taking care of the football,” Vrabel said about Allen since 2020. “And really that’s been the big difference for me. Just watching it from afar, a few years ago, forcing things in the red zone, and that led to some turnovers, some interceptions. And now I think he just has a greater understanding of taking care of the football in those situations. And they’re still scoring touchdowns.”
Allen earned a 90.3 PFF grade and 76.6 QBR in 2020. Maye isn’t at that point yet, and he might never get there. But Maye has shown that he can take a significant step forward already through four games of his second season, and the Patriots’ offense as a whole should continue to add pieces to help their young quarterback.
Wide receiver Stefon Diggs, who has played with both players, can understand the comparisons.
“I was with a young Josh. I mean, he wasn’t that young, and then, obviously, I’m with a young Drake right now, but I see the similarities,” Diggs said. “I try not to get into player comparisons at all. They’re two different young men. But I see why they say that. They all play with that mindset, that dawg mindset, and I see Drake coming along the same way. So I see why. I try not to get into much of comparison, two different men, two different grown-ups.”
Another area where Maye is currently behind Allen at the same point in their careers is in wins. Allen was 8-7 as a starter through his first season and first four games of Year 2. Maye is just 5-11, and two of those wins don’t really count. Jacoby Brissett came back to win for one of those victories, and Maye played just one series in the Patriots’ season finale last year.
“He wants the ball in his hands to win the game,” Maye said of Allen. “With the game on the line, the ball is in Josh’s hand a lot, and he ends up making the play. That’s what I’ve learned. He’s so versatile. I think that’s what makes it so tough on defenses is what he can do, extend plays, play in the pocket. In the running game, he has the extra hat, and he’s commanding the offense. He’s been doing that for a while at a very high level, and like I said, it’s fun to watch, but now we’re playing against him.”
The Bills had a stronger roster at the time, however. And Maye has proven he can play winning football this season.
The Patriots play the Bills again in Week 15. It will be interesting to check in on Maye’s progression again late in the season.
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At the time, my thoughts were "we'll see", as I'm a pessimist by nature. Watching him live in London last year, I liked what I saw.
I thought he developed well last year (credit to Van Pelt for that). I was worried after that Raiders game (seemed to have 'happy feet') but has improved since.
He's got more learning to do, of course, particularly on tightening up his accuracy. However, he's got massive potential. He's also sliding which I like.
I thought he developed well last year (credit to Van Pelt for that). I was worried after that Raiders game (seemed to have 'happy feet') but has improved since.
He's got more learning to do, of course, particularly on tightening up his accuracy. However, he's got massive potential. He's also sliding which I like.
HSanders
R.I.P. Hawgie 💔
This I take to the bank because i think cosell is really good. I watch him on the match up show a lot.
