Cop bodycam of George Floyd arrest.

KontradictioN

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Rodney King was hopped up on meth when he was approached by LAPD.

Neither King nor Floyd obeyed the cops when told to stop resisting.

My Dad always told me, if a cop says "put your hands in the air" you put your damn hands in the air. Period

Yes, generally speaking everyone should cooperate with the cops. Some people (regular people) have an easier time with that than other people (drug addicts/people of unsound mind). Generally speaking, the former crowd has an easier time with just about everything than the latter crowd. Floyd was in the latter crowd.
 
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mikiemo83

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First, the bolded part was high comedy. Thank you for that. I definitely needed that laugh today. I’m assuming/hoping that was humor since there isn’t anyway that anyone with an IQ above 70 would believe I’m arguing that point. I’m also assuming you’d be intelligent enough to not just simply drop a nice, little straw man here.

Secondly, I detailed one of the ways. Another way would have been simply to overpower him and keep him in the back seat. Again, he’s outnumbered. Another way would be to call for back-up and trying to talk him down. The man’s hands were behind his back and he wasn’t armed. Time is your friend here. Just about anything they could have done would have been better than what they did.

Lastly, I’m not a man with all the answers. I’m a businessman and a project manager. Not a cop. I do, however, know what the wrong answer was. It was the answer that was so bad, it united liberals and conservatives for a few days in the year 2020... until the Antifa baristas took over, at least.
we all agree it was wrong to kneel on the guy.

but up to that point - these two and later 4 cops were handling it pretty calmly. They tried to talk him into the cruiser.

Now do you really think he was going to willfully step into an ambulance that would be his uber to the police station?

in a perfect police world, they call the ambulance for patient transport,what if he rips it up fighting them because he showed not one once of compliant behavior and that Ambulance was needed to respond to a call? does that next life not matter?

IMO he was only driving himself away from there - he was not letting them take him. High is not mentally ill. often they are tied together but George was wrong not to be compliant from the get go. He was so high he was irrational, not mentally ill.

I think they could have put him in a van transport but would he have ended up like Freddie Grey falling over? A cruiser is a safer vehicle than shackled to a bench.

plus a wagon stinks, all the old drunks puke and shit themselves and they do not clean it properly.
 

Dwight Schrute

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Simple yes or no statement that will add some clarity to this for you - Do you believe that George Floyd was acting like a man in his right mind in that video? Yes or no?

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 PM ----------



How about any fucking way but the way they actually handled him? There were more of them than there was of him and they were all armed. Try sitting on the guy’s back and calling for a van to pick him up until they get there. I’d think the majority of ways to handle someone who is obviously not in his right mind at that point would be better than putting a knee into his neck for over 8 minutes and acting surprised when the guy croaks.

To me? No. I’ll default to the arresting officers, who likely see this once or twice per shift. They ask him in the middle of it all “are you on something?” Not “do you have mental illness?” As a first responder I’m sure they’ve seen both countless times and have a decent shot at identifying the symptoms on the fly.

To mikie, is anyone disputing this? You seem to be having an argument nobody is trying to give you. I haven’t seen anyone in the history of ever say the proper technique here would be to kneel on his neck for 8 minutes.

---------- Post added at 04:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Nah. A lack of a quality education (I don’t count faggy liberal arts degrees as an “education”) as well a lack of respect for authority which can probably be blamed on the lack of a two-parent household in some poorer communities are the reasons behind that movement. Don’t pay it much mind even if the press is. Those people are fucking morons, lunatics, or some combination of both of those things and they are definitely in the minority. It’s just that stories about them garner more clicks and ad revenue than your regular run-of-the-mill politically themed stories, so the news outlets shove the lunatic fringe down our throats.

Agree

---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 PM ----------

Rodney King was hopped up on meth when he was approached by LAPD.

Neither King nor Floyd obeyed the cops when told to stop resisting.

My Dad always told me, if a cop says "put your hands in the air" you put your damn hands in the air. Period

You nailed the problem.

Your dad told you.

How can you be a dad telling a child with 4 different mommas and eleventeen children in every corner of the country?
 
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mikiemo83

mikiemo83

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To mikie, is anyone disputing this? You seem to be having an argument nobody is trying to give you. I haven’t seen anyone in the history of ever say the proper technique here would be to kneel on his neck for 8 minutes.
I think one POS cop screwed over a country and we need to figure out how to arrest a non-compliant person without beating the piss out of them or killing them in anger like Chauvin. I am looking for solutions to guys like Floyd, or Eric Garner, big guys who resist.
looking for a way.

stun gun is too much force, what is allowed?

also all these partial videos are only used to fuel the flames of anger.
 

KontradictioN

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we all agree it was wrong to kneel on the guy.

but up to that point - these two and later 4 cops were handling it pretty calmly. They tried to talk him into the cruiser.

Yeah, they really knocked it out of the park all the way around. It was a fine example of policing up until the murder.

Now do you really think he was going to willfully step into an ambulance that would be his uber to the police station?

We will never know. If he doesn’t, you shove him in there with the four cops and multiple EMTs and send him on his way. Stuff like that happens every day.

in a perfect police world, they call the ambulance for patient transport,what if he rips it up fighting them because he showed not one once of compliant behavior and that Ambulance was needed to respond to a call?

They deal with people like Floyd every day. So do the cops. And what is Floyd in this scenario? The Incredible Hulk? You’re beginning to sound like you’re making excuses for these guys.

does that next life not matter?

What? What does this have to do with the cops treating him better than they did?

IMO he was only driving himself away from there - he was not letting them take him. High is not mentally ill. often they are tied together but George was wrong not to be compliant from the get go. He was so high he was irrational, not mentally ill.

I’ve already posted a referenced article from the government which goes over the correlation between mental illness in people who abuse drugs. Further, cops will often treat drug addicts in much the same way they treat the mentally ill during encounters in which the suspect is being questioned for a non-violent crime. Reason? They’re not in their right mind. They’re not in a normal frame of mind. So they’re treated differently.

I think they could have put him in a van transport but would he have ended up like Freddie Grey falling over? A cruiser is a safer vehicle than shackled to a bench.

Every situation needs to be judged on its own merits. The Grey encounter was different than this encounter and future encounters will be different than both encounters. This is a red herring, though, since it holds no relevance to Floyd’s situation.

plus a wagon stinks, all the old drunks puke and shit themselves and they do not clean it properly.

LMAO, I won’t argue that. I see you, too, are a man of culture with that experience under his belt.
 

KontradictioN

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To me? No.

Good. So we are on the same page. He was not acting like a man in the right frame of mind. He should have been treated as such.

I’ll default to the arresting officers, who likely see this once or twice per shift.

Good decision. They definitely seem like quality cops who are worth an appeal to authority. I don’t see anything wrong with putting your eggs in this basket. Let’s defer to them. They displayed such excellent reasoning and judgement abilities in the original video.
 

Dwight Schrute

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Good. So we are on the same page. He was not acting like a man in the right frame of mind. He should have been treated as such.



Good decision. They definitely seem like quality cops who are worth an appeal to authority. I don’t see anything wrong with putting your eggs in this basket. Let’s defer to them. They displayed such excellent reasoning and judgement abilities in the original video.

Twist it any way you want. You’re still arguing with yourself. Habit? NOBODY has said the arresting officers did it right. To the contrary.

The only thing I was defaulting to the officers was whether he was high - you haven’t acknowledged that (death is a concern at blood level 3 and he was measured at 11) or mentally ill, the hoop stuck trying to jump through.
 

deec77

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Can I ask for the third time what does drug abuse have to do with mental illness?

I understand that both are hard to handle.... but I can talk a mentally ill person off the ledge, someone under the influence not so easy....and way more dangerous. I’ve been there done that.

And again he shouldn’t have been treated the way he was, period end of discussion, but please stop equating the 2, they aren’t even remotely the same.

~Dee~
 

KontradictioN

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Can I ask for the third time what does drug abuse have to do with mental illness?

I understand that both are hard to handle.... but I can talk a mentally ill person off the ledge, someone under the influence not so easy....and way more dangerous. I’ve been there done that.

And again he shouldn’t have been treated the way he was, period end of discussion, but please stop equating the 2, they aren’t even remotely the same.

~Dee~

Yeah... they are. Either via short-term effects on drugs like Meth or via the long-term effects that have a proven correlation between drug abuse and mental illness. You should sign out and Google “the links between drug abuse and mental illness” so as to avoid confirmation bias. After you do that, come back to me and make this same post again.

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

Twist it any way you want. You’re still arguing with yourself. Habit? NOBODY has said the arresting officers did it right. To the contrary.

The only thing I was defaulting to the officers was whether he was high - you haven’t acknowledged that (death is a concern at blood level 3 and he was measured at 11) or mentally ill, the hoop stuck trying to jump through.

I’m not twisting anything. You couldn’t even bring yourself to admit that he was acting like a man in his right mind. He should have, therefore, been treated as such. He wasn’t. Debate over. You’ve conceded my point. Everything else from here is just pouting and stomping your feet. Hell, I’m not even sure what you were arguing about in the first place, to be honest. My case was ironclad and was the only one that could stand up to scrutiny. This was not a man in his right mind that day. We both knew that.
 

johnlocke

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I haven't entirely understood the argument going on here. And I think it's kind of irrelevant to the topic.

But just as anecdotes I have known of people that were legit temporarily insane on PCP that were shot 6 times and still attacking the police officers. Long-term I have seen friends just devole into a world of utter paranoia from extended meth use, hoarding guns, and just being straight nutz(I know that's not a clinical term lol).

I have had friends that were heroin and fentanyl addicts. When they OD they can't breathe but otherwise are just chill when high.

This is just, like I said what I've personally seen.

Take that info and use it however and for whatever it's worth.
 

Dwight Schrute

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Yeah... they are. Either via short-term effects on drugs like Meth or via the long-term effects that have a proven correlation between drug abuse and mental illness. You should sign out and Google “the links between drug abuse and mental illness” so as to avoid confirmation bias. After you do that, come back to me and make this same post again.

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------



I’m not twisting anything. You couldn’t even bring yourself to admit that he was acting like a man in his right mind. He should have, therefore, been treated as such. He wasn’t. Debate over. You’ve conceded my point. Everything else from here is just pouting and stomping your feet. Hell, I’m not even sure what you were arguing about in the first place, to be honest. My case was ironclad and was the only one that could stand up to scrutiny. This was not a man in his right mind that day. We both knew that.

I don’t even know what the hell you are saying.

I don’t recall ever saying this guy was in his right mind. I’d heard very early on he was a drug user, confirmed with the coroner report of a SEDATIVE drug, fentanyl.
 

KontradictioN

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I don’t even know what the hell you are saying.

I don’t recall ever saying this guy was in his right mind. I’d heard very early on he was a drug user, confirmed with the coroner report of a SEDATIVE drug, fentanyl.

Yeah... along with meth. And probably with years of abuse. My statement: he was clearly mentally ill and not in his right mind at that point. There were a lot of better ways they could have treated him.” Your counter: “HE WAS ON DRUGZ... NOT MENTALLY ILL LOL WTF.” Either way, you agree he wasn’t in his right mind at that point. Drugs, mental illness, whatever. The appropriate way to deal with that is not an 8 minute knee on the neck. Once again, I’m not even sure why you decided to argue that point, but here we are.
 
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mikiemo83

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I don’t even know what the hell you are saying.

I don’t recall ever saying this guy was in his right mind. I’d heard very early on he was a drug user, confirmed with the coroner report of a SEDATIVE drug, fentanyl.
I'm a simple man.

I'm reading it as any drug use= mental illness so anyone using drugs is mentally ill and therefore the police should proceed with caution and ambulatory transportation is the only way to go.


that said I think we need to turn in 70% of cruisers for ambulances and make all police officers proficient in dealing with illegal drug use.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

Yeah... along with meth. And probably with years of abuse. My statement: he was clearly mentally ill and not in his right mind at that point. There were a lot of better ways they could have treated him.” Your counter: “HE WAS ON DRUGZ... NOT MENTALLY ILL LOL WTF.” Either way, you agree he wasn’t in his right mind at that point. Drugs, mental illness, whatever. The appropriate way to deal with that is not an 8 minute knee on the neck. Once again, I’m not even sure why you decided to argue that point, but here we are.
Can I ask who has said this was the appropriate way to handle it?

I think everyone agrees it was wrong.
 

KontradictioN

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I'm a simple man.

I'm reading it as any drug use= mental illness so anyone using drugs is mentally ill and therefore the police should proceed with caution and ambulatory transportation is the only way to go.


that said I think we need to turn in 70% of cruisers for ambulances and make all police officers proficient in dealing with illegal drug use.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

Can I ask who has said this was the appropriate way to handle it?

I think everyone agrees it was wrong.

And yet here we are on page 4 of a back-and-forth. People seem to be SAYING it’s wrong, but bending over backwards to excuse the way these cops dealt with him before the knee on the neck makes me think otherwise. That’s fine. It’s an easy argument to take apart.

Your response to Dwight is disgracefully retarded too. Your not stupid enough to think that’s my actual argument. If you really are, then it should come as no surprise that you’re confused.
 
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mikiemo83

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And yet here we are on page 4 of a back-and-forth. People seem to be SAYING it’s wrong, but bending over backwards to excuse the way these cops dealt with him before the knee on the neck makes me think otherwise. That’s fine. It’s an easy argument to take apart.
What I think is IF george had just complied, none of this would have happened but he didn't because he had committed a crime,passing a fake $20, and the police were called. This was not the police targeting a black man but responding to a call. so innocent George was being detained for a reason - that is why I think up until he went in one side of the cruiser and out the other - those officers handled it well.


Your response to Dwight is disgracefully retarded too. Your not stupid enough to think that’s my actual argument. If you really are, then it should come as no surprise that you’re confused.
I believe being high does not equal mentally ill, it can be an outlet for someone seeking an escape their mental illness but being high does mean you are mentally ill - you continue to claim he was high, and not of his right mind and the police should have treated him as a mentally ill patient, I ask why, he is not mentally ill, he is high - totally different things.

In my experience dealing with people, nore than I care to admit as I drove a lot of people to a lot of meetings and court required attendance, all with addiction and some additionally with mental illness - it is not the same. The mentally ill can be reasoned with, the high, paranoid user can not understand reasoning.

Sure he was not in his right mind, as we later find out, he had almost 4 times the lethal level of Fentanyl in his system - it is scary he was coherent enough to talk to the police- most I assume are out cold or being hit with narcan at that level, not passing off fake cash.

He is not a saint, he did not deserve the fate he got but all I see are other posters saying up to the point of him passing through the car, the police handled it correctly.


At this point the video ends, so what happens next tells a different story, but we do not know how what takes place next happens.

We know the tragic outcome but I know I am only discussing what I watched on this video when saying they handled it correctly as I think most are within this thread.

IMO, based on only the action in the video, without knowing the results, I would not have called for the ambulance? I think that call is based on knowing the outcome before watching it.
 

Dwight Schrute

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Yeah... along with meth. And probably with years of abuse. My statement: he was clearly mentally ill and not in his right mind at that point. There were a lot of better ways they could have treated him.” Your counter: “HE WAS ON DRUGZ... NOT MENTALLY ILL LOL WTF.” Either way, you agree he wasn’t in his right mind at that point. Drugs, mental illness, whatever. The appropriate way to deal with that is not an 8 minute knee on the neck. Once again, I’m not even sure why you decided to argue that point, but here we are.

I most definitely did not write it in your moronic fashion. I wrote it as fact, as ANYONE that paid any attention to the coroner report announcing would have known. We KNOW he was high on fentanyl. You’re harping on meth, but they only said they found it in his system. That could’ve been days ago. You put your foot down for mental illness as well, and nobody has announced that.

Not a single person I’ve read here has said it was the proper arrest protocol.

Pages of arguments and YOU are the common central figure.
 

deec77

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Yeah... they are. Either via short-term effects on drugs like Meth or via the long-term effects that have a proven correlation between drug abuse and mental illness. You should sign out and Google “the links between drug abuse and mental illness” so as to avoid confirmation bias. After you do that, come back to me and make this same post again.


From the article you “googled”

Although substance use disorders commonly occur with other mental illnesses, it’s often unclear whether one helped cause the other or if common underlying risk factors contribute to both disorders.

Do mentally ill self medicate you bet I’m not disagreeing with that. Could some mental illness mimic drug abuse sure. I’m not disagreeing with that.


He was clearly not well, mentally. There are about a million different ways in which those cops could have dealt with that better before they got to the point they got to. People who are mentally ill, as this video clearly shows Floyd was, are not going to cooperate with the police like someone who isn’t mentally ill. Saying “he should have cooperated,” while correct, ignores context. Hell, laying him down and sitting on his back for a few minutes until more back-up arrived would have been better than pressing a knee into his neck for 8+ minutes because he was accused of forgery and was complaining about claustrophobia. Big picture here, guys.
__________________

I responded with this

I beg to differ with your assessment. I think I may know a bit more then the average person which is why I asked The question, “What made you think he was mentally ill?”

Drug abuse and depression do go hand and hand sometimes. I agree that those suffering from some forms of depression absolutely do self medicate. Others not so much.

Sorry he wasn’t suffering from, in any way shape or form from any mental illness As far as I can tell from that short clip, claustrophobia is not a mental illness, and he certainly wasn't self medicating with fentanyl.

I wish your SIL well addiction stinks.

So

He was high on something yes I agree, but once again, being high isn’t a mental illness. Do they mimic each other depending on the disorder sure. Did he deserve to die regardless, absolutely not. No one here is saying that.

What I’m saying is, and I can only speak for myself, it’s far easier most times to deal with a mentally ill person then one using drugs. Both are unpredictable yes. But different approaches need to be taken depending on why you’re dealing with a mentally ill person also. You make it sound as if it’s all the same approach, it’s not, and again the wrong approach was taken by the officer regardless absolutely.

Sure sometimes drug and/or alcohol abuse can cause emotional and behavior disorders. Sometimes drug and or alcohol addiction can also coexist with forms of mental illness in any given person. As I have said mentally ill patience do tend to self medicate by abusing drugs and or alcohol.

I’m not sure why you’re getting so defensive quite frankly.

~Dee~
 

MEPATNUT

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We still don't see what happened that made the cops take him to the ground and why that cop felt that he had to put the knee on his neck. Up until that time it looks like the cops were doing the right thing and not abusing Floyd.

So, what happens next is still a question. It would have to be very powerful in the cops favor to justify his putting a knee on his neck for that long when they had cuffs on him.
 
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