Coronavirus

tehmackdaddy

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Wow....so if my 30 year old son who has asthma, is vulnerable, screw him....I can go look up age groups and who died and all of that, but I am sure you have an alternative link from another site, so rather than do that. If we just say screw people who are vulnerable and long live people....well until they get diabetes, or get to 40, or have cancer in remission. The problem with this virus is not who it kills, its how fast it spreads, which is pretty fast....you can tell that by the cases of flue compared to the cases of covid. I mean they are struggling to get through a football season. Its not just about the kids in schools, its about the teachers, the kids parents, you know, the ones that come in contact with the kids who can carry it. Sorry I guess I value human life more than you, even those who you say had their lives.
Your 30 year old son, who is an adult, could quarantine himself if he is at risk.

Just a thought.
 

johnlocke

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Your 30 year old son, who is an adult, could quarantine himself if he is at risk.

Just a thought.

This. And that's the point. My rights don't end where yours begin. There is no conflict.

I know so many people that have been financially, mentally and business wise been devastated by these lockdowns of everyone when the proper course was for those who are concerned and at risk was to quarantin themselves.

I've posted this before but I'll post it again. If someone is ill with a contagion it's right and just to force a quarantine, it is in no way just to quarantine the healthy.
 
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johnlocke

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Your 30 year old son, who is an adult, could quarantine himself if he is at risk.

Just a thought.

This. And that's the point. My rights don't end where yours begin. There is no conflict.

I know so many people that have been financially, mentally and business wise been devastated by these lockdowns of everyone when the proper course was for those who are concerned and at risk was to quarantine themselves.

I've posted this before but I'll post it again. If someone is ill with a contagion it's right and just to force a quarantine, it is in no way just to quarantine the healthy.

From Dr. Leonard Peikoff, an eminent philosopher on the morality of quarantines and the immorality of forced inoculations.

"The moral is the practical.

#IdeasMoveTheWorld

Q:What is the moral status of quarantine? Is it permissible to hold people against their will because they are suspected of being exposed to a disease?

A: Yes, it is. You do have a right to be free of disease, if that means free from attack by agents, such as germs, emitted by another person's body. Even if it's not his choice, his knowledge, or his control, it is still his body harming you physically. In that form, it's violating your rights. You would see that if he had pellets being shot out of a gun toward you.
It is therefore entirely proper for a government to stop this kind of invasion. For a government to step in, though, it must have objective evidence that the person is contagious, such as that the person has been in a certain area or whatever. But if this has been established, then forcible quarantine by the government is not only justified, but mandatory. They are simply removing the physical threat to your body until it's no longer a threat.

Observe the difference between quarantine and inoculation. The government has no right to impose compulsory inoculation on you. Inoculation is your choice and your responsibility. It is your decision to make yourself immune. But quarantine is the government saying, "Stay away from this person's body." Similarly, there should be no preventative laws, no government declaration of behavior that will prevent the disease. Nor should there be monitoring of the disease. All of that is private and voluntary. There should be no Center for Disease Control and all the rest.

By the way, the CDC has a strong political agenda. This [2009] swine flu epidemic, so-called epidemic, is an example. There's an enormously over-hyped number of supposed deaths compared to the ludicrously small number of supposed victims, but of course a very large financial benefit to the government bureaucracies involved.
—December 2009"
 

deec77

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I...didn't say anything like that, all I did is ask for a source...
DR. DEBORAH BIRX: So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.
 

Patriots71

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Your 30 year old son, who is an adult, could quarantine himself if he is at risk.

Just a thought.
Well see the issue is, he has to live his life like you do. So I think its up to others to also use caution to not spread the virus. I mean you can't walk into a store and just starting shooting all over the place. If you dont think its up to humans to watch out for each other during a pandemic, then you seem like a pretty sorry human to me. I am not at risk as others are, but I make sure to protect them by wearing a mask and taking care to not spread something if I am carrying it.
 

deec77

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Well then he has a choice to make and he can wear a mask and social distance, both are to protect him from being exposed even when someone else is not.

~Dee~
 

HSanders

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exactly deec
We all wear masks and someone at my work got it.
Even if you belive masks are the magic coronavirus prophylactic, they aren't 100% prevention. Why should a stranger care more about your health than you do? Stay home, work from home, order everything delivered. There has literally NEVER been an era where that has been essier to do than now.
 

Dwight Schrute

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Wow....so if my 30 year old son who has asthma, is vulnerable, screw him....I can go look up age groups and who died and all of that, but I am sure you have an alternative link from another site, so rather than do that. If we just say screw people who are vulnerable and long live people....well until they get diabetes, or get to 40, or have cancer in remission. The problem with this virus is not who it kills, its how fast it spreads, which is pretty fast....you can tell that by the cases of flue compared to the cases of covid. I mean they are struggling to get through a football season. Its not just about the kids in schools, its about the teachers, the kids parents, you know, the ones that come in contact with the kids who can carry it. Sorry I guess I value human life more than you, even those who you say had their lives.
You clearly haven’t paid attention to fatality or hospitalization rates by age and if comorbidities are present or not.

You don’t lock down healthy school age children that by and large don’t get hospitalized and the survivability rate is 99.997%.

I know you hate to hear it but flu deaths surpass Covid deaths in that bracket nationwide.

And by all means, if you or a loved one has a condition that is a concern, who’s telling you that you can’t quarantine or take any and all precautions you choose? NOBODY!

Just by the same token allow those that want to resume a healthy normal life the same opportunity. It’s like your group isn’t happy unless they are doing what they want AND stepping all over everyone else’s rights and freedoms.
 

Dwight Schrute

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This post was from Feb....Lets recap...whats the covid deaths up to now? So lets compare, here is a quote from a link that I am sure you guys will call false news, I mean its just from hopkins medicine, I am sure its all lies, but here is the quote.

[FONT=noto_sansregular]COVID-19: There have been approximately 1,062,636 deaths reported worldwide. In the U.S, 212,789, people have died of COVID-19 between January 2020 and October 9, 2020.*
Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.

So now that we have up to date numbers. I would say covid was probably worse, and I wont get into some of the after effects from the virus. Flu is pretty bad, but here is the thing, they created a vaccine for that...want to know why? Because people die from it, so you know...hoping for that covid vaccine so that those numbers will go down too. Then you guys can argue about vaccines are the government implanting chips into us.


I mean I get your cult leader trump wants you to think that covid is no biggie because he completely botched the whole thing, but its actually real, and important, and there needs to be a vaccine. Not everyone gets to have the treatment he got. Its a big deal. Not everything is a conspiracy.[/FONT]
Trumps full treatment regimen is available to all.
 

Dwight Schrute

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I understand and empathize with people that struggle with the isolation that some of this is causing...

But for me, a homebody introvert, I feel like I've been practicing for this my whole life. :)
My son is battling depression over this. He needs the structure and camaraderie of a normal school calendar and athletic activities.
 

Dwight Schrute

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Do you have a source for that, that most COVID victims were terminally ill?
I linked an article the CDC posted that Covid was actually the cause of death in 6% of cases. That’s the same CDC that everyone is telling us to follow ... because of follow the science and all.
 

Coltsfan2theend

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My son is battling depression over this. He needs the structure and camaraderie of a normal school calendar and athletic activities.
Adults need to interact and socialize with other adults also, especially parents of little kids. Friday night, Sarah and I were at a state park inn. For three hours, we talked to two other couples. It was nice, almost like normal.
 

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I linked an article the CDC posted that Covid was actually the cause of death in 6% of cases. That’s the same CDC that everyone is telling us to follow ... because of follow the science and all.
The CDC said that was a false narrative, meaning the people would not have died if they didnt get covid. If you have diabetes you can live a pretty normal life. If you get covid and it kills you because of your diabetes, Covid killed you. If not for covid, they are still alive. It still amazes me how people can just dismiss a life because they were over 40 or had diabetes or were overweight. Oh well kids grandma died from covid but people said its ok because she would eventually die anyway. I really thought death panels were a hoax, but not anymore.

Here is it being explained, but I doubt most got this far past the initial report...
 

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Bottom line is this thing is contagious but not very deadly.

Many will get it, most will be fine and very few will get sick and die like any other half-ass sane virus.

No need to end the world over it.

The consequences of the lockdowns are far more far reaching than the virus. And that's a fact.

On top of that, this thing has been completely politicized by the left to try and get the President out of office. Lives be damned and that is epically despicable.
 

Dwight Schrute

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The CDC said that was a false narrative, meaning the people would not have died if they didnt get covid. If you have diabetes you can live a pretty normal life. If you get covid and it kills you because of your diabetes, Covid killed you. If not for covid, they are still alive. It still amazes me how people can just dismiss a life because they were over 40 or had diabetes or were overweight. Oh well kids grandma died from covid but people said its ok because she would eventually die anyway. I really thought death panels were a hoax, but not anymore.

Here is it being explained, but I doubt most got this far past the initial report...
Question: if that is in fact correct why is the Department of Health and Environmental Control stepping in for clarification vs the CDC doing it themselves since they made the statement?

and, it doesn’t change the fact that 6% only have died with just Covid. 94% had additional comorbidities. They did not refute that.

0-25 the survivability per case is 99.997. They do not need a lockdown. If you’re fearful from Grammie and Grandpa then have them stay away and interact via FaceTime, Zoom, or Skype.
 

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765 new COVID-19 cases confirmed in Massachusetts, 13 additional deaths​

 

shecolt

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Since some of the previous comments have addressed COVID in relation to those who are the most vulnerable, I want to share my thoughts because it's a subject that is very close to me.

First, I want to start by saying that I'm someone who often used the words "isolation" and "quarantine" as if they were one and the same. Then, my daughter corrected me by explaining that "isolation" refers to those who have tested positive. The length of isolation will vary depending on the severity and (hopefully) recovery of the patient. "Quarantine" refers to those who have been in close contact with someone who has tested positive. The length of quarantine is 14 days.

So, when I hear someone saying that the vulnerable should just quarantine themselves; I find myself wishing it was that easy. But, it's not. My first example is of the nursing home near me. They locked their doors on March 10th. Since then, the residents are only allowed to leave if they need medical attention that can't be provided there, if they are completely removed from the facility by the family, or if they die.

With the exception of end-of-life cases, no visitors were allowed until June when they finally made arrangements for outdoor visits where two family members could visit a resident once a week for 20 minutes. Those visits were closely monitored by a staff member to insure that face masks were worn and social distancing was done. I don't know what they will be doing now that cooler weather is coming, but I'm hoping that they could at least come up with something like what I've seen on TV where a prisoner sits on one side of a plexiglass wall and can communicate via phone with the visitor on the other side.

Since the residents of this and most nursing homes are primarily the elderly, there will be the Gov. Coumo's of the world who will just look away which is why I'm going to give you my second example. It's the story of my granddaughter who is among the vulnerable due to her need to take anti-rejection meds. I don't think that anyone would consider a five-year old to be someone who has already had a full life.

She was removed from school in March and since then has only left her home to go two places. One of those is the hospital because she needs to have periodic blood draws to monitor her system. The other is my home because my husband and I decided to severely limit our interaction with others so as to give her a safe place to go away from her home.

Both of my examples are not quarantines. They would be more comparable to a 7-month lockdown and one that I don't see ending anytime soon. This isn't their fault. My granddaughter was born with a rare disease. The elderly only did what many of us may do which is to grow older which often brings health problems with it.

It also isn't the fault of anyone else which is why I am an advocate for cautiously opening up things. Too many people have already suffered financially, mentally, and physically from the shutdowns. People need to work. They need to feel productive. They need to be able to socialize with others. Children need to be in school and participating in other activities with their peers.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I too often sense a lack of compassion. A lack of compassion for the most vulnerable and a lack of compassion for those who just want to pick up whatever is left of their lives and move forward. That makes me sad because I don't think this is due to people not caring for others, but more an indication of how those playing political games with COVID have affected our thinking.
 

johnlocke

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Since some of the previous comments have addressed COVID in relation to those who are the most vulnerable, I want to share my thoughts because it's a subject that is very close to me.

First, I want to start by saying that I'm someone who often used the words "isolation" and "quarantine" as if they were one and the same. Then, my daughter corrected me by explaining that "isolation" refers to those who have tested positive. The length of isolation will vary depending on the severity and (hopefully) recovery of the patient. "Quarantine" refers to those who have been in close contact with someone who has tested positive. The length of quarantine is 14 days.

So, when I hear someone saying that the vulnerable should just quarantine themselves; I find myself wishing it was that easy. But, it's not. My first example is of the nursing home near me. They locked their doors on March 10th. Since then, the residents are only allowed to leave if they need medical attention that can't be provided there, if they are completely removed from the facility by the family, or if they die.

With the exception of end-of-life cases, no visitors were allowed until June when they finally made arrangements for outdoor visits where two family members could visit a resident once a week for 20 minutes. Those visits were closely monitored by a staff member to insure that face masks were worn and social distancing was done. I don't know what they will be doing now that cooler weather is coming, but I'm hoping that they could at least come up with something like what I've seen on TV where a prisoner sits on one side of a plexiglass wall and can communicate via phone with the visitor on the other side.

Since the residents of this and most nursing homes are primarily the elderly, there will be the Gov. Coumo's of the world who will just look away which is why I'm going to give you my second example. It's the story of my granddaughter who is among the vulnerable due to her need to take anti-rejection meds. I don't think that anyone would consider a five-year old to be someone who has already had a full life.

She was removed from school in March and since then has only left her home to go two places. One of those is the hospital because she needs to have periodic blood draws to monitor her system. The other is my home because my husband and I decided to severely limit our interaction with others so as to give her a safe place to go away from her home.

Both of my examples are not quarantines. They would be more comparable to a 7-month lockdown and one that I don't see ending anytime soon. This isn't their fault. My granddaughter was born with a rare disease. The elderly only did what many of us may do which is to grow older which often brings health problems with it.

It also isn't the fault of anyone else which is why I am an advocate for cautiously opening up things. Too many people have already suffered financially, mentally, and physically from the shutdowns. People need to work. They need to feel productive. They need to be able to socialize with others. Children need to be in school and participating in other activities with their peers.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I too often sense a lack of compassion. A lack of compassion for the most vulnerable and a lack of compassion for those who just want to pick up whatever is left of their lives and move forward. That makes me sad because I don't think this is due to people not caring for others, but more an indication of how those playing political games with COVID have affected our thinking.

Oh my goodness. Great post. I sure hope she's doing OK. She has been on my mind. What a miracle she is. :wuv:
 
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