does gun control work - a keep the debate in one thread idea

mikiemo83

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does limiting the good owners only allow the illegal owners more freedom?

10-year-old boy among victims as more than 20 shot on one Chicago day
By John Newland, Staff Writer, NBC News

Updated 4 days ago

A 10-year-old boy was shot Wednesday in Chicago toward the end of a day that saw at least three people slain and 20 others wounded, police and local media said.

The boy was standing on North Waller Avenue just before 8 p.m. when a group of men on a nearby street corner began fighting, said Officer Hector Alfaro, a Chicago Police Department spokesman.

During the melee, one of the men pulled out a handgun and opened fire, Alfaro said.

“I’m assuming he was shooting at the other individuals,” he added. “He wasn’t shooting at the child.”

The boy was wounded in the right buttock and taken to Mount Sinai Hospital, Alfaro said. No information about his condition was available early Thursday, though Alfaro said he believed the child was “stable.”

Chicago detectives were continuing their investigation Thursday, and no arrests had been made, Alfaro said.

The city’s first 80-degree day in seven months brought a wave of violence, with an average of one per hour at one point, NBCChicago.com reported.

Three cases were fatal, according to NBCChicago.com:


A man in his 30s was found dead in an alley in the 1900 block of South Drake overnight. After midnight, the first murder of May happened in the South Shore neighborhood where a 27-year-old man was shot in the chest near his home at 68th and Cornell. Neighbors said the man was a father of three.

Another shooting happened in front of the University of Illinois-Chicago police station, where three men were struck around 10:40 p.m. A 19- year-old died. Police said he was a known gang member.

The violence came less than a month after the police department announced that crime in the city had fallen 8 percent in the year’s first quarter, compared with the same period a year earlier, and 15 percent from 2011.

Murders fell by 42 percent in the quarter and shootings by 27 percent, the department said in a news release.

The Austin neighborhood, where the boy was shot, however, saw a rise last year in the numbers of murders and shootings, according to police statistics.

The district, one of 77 in the city of 2.7 million, had 26 murders in 2012, up from 19 the year before, and 116 shootings, up from 98.
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Coltsfan2theend

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Frankly, the only way for gun control to work is to confiscate and destroy all the guns in the world and destroy them. That will never happen. Criminals will always find a way to get to guns. If they can't get to guns, it will be knives, bombs, etc.

Here is my big thing why I do not support more gun control laws, criminals don't obey laws to begin with. New laws will only affect those who choose to obey them. Frankly, New York states new gun laws are so strict that all but two counties oppose them.

Overall, you can't regulate stupid. My firearms have never been used in a crime, fired in an unsafe manner, or anything. I find it annoying that people want to regulate my hobby because 1% of people with a gun do something stupid.

Frankly, some of the current gun laws are a little too much for me. This is only an example, but if someone is convicted of felony theft (more then $1,000) when they were young, they (unless they petition to knock it down to a misdemeanor) can never own a gun. Unless you were convicted of a crime where you physically hurt someone (assaulting them with a gun, knife, hands/feet), I believe you shouldn't lose your gun rights. Now, I am not actively trying to change it right now.

Did you know it is a felony to lie on the background check form (form 4473)? Know how many times those crimes are prosecuted, very little (I last heard 1%).
 

Jaric

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Not really becaus IMO guns are a symptom of a larger problem.

You want to make a real impact on gun violence in this country? Do two things.

Legalize drugs.

Improve the economy.

I've been over the impact the prohibition 2.0 has on our crime rate at least a dozen times here. If anyone doubts that, just google Al Capone, or watch a few episodes of Boardwalk Empire.

As to the economy- it's pretty universal that the poorest areas tend to have the highest crime rates. Why is this? Because people without options stop giving a shit about consequences. Give people options and they are less likely to break the law.

You're never going to stop all violence entirely. That just isn't going to happen.
 
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mikiemo83

mikiemo83

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Not really becaus IMO guns are a symptom of a larger problem.

You want to make a real impact on gun violence in this country? Do two things.

Legalize drugs.

Improve the economy.

I've been over the impact the prohibition 2.0 has on our crime rate at least a dozen times here. If anyone doubts that, just google Al Capone, or watch a few episodes of Boardwalk Empire.

As to the economy- it's pretty universal that the poorest areas tend to have the highest crime rates. Why is this? Because people without options stop giving a shit about consequences. Give people options and they are less likely to break the law.

You're never going to stop all violence entirely. That just isn't going to happen.
Drugs: too much money to be made with them illegal, will not happen...and what drugs should be legal? weed or Ice?

Economy: this is true but too many are raised to milk the system, raised to say "what can I get" not "what can I earn" those poorest areas are expanding not shrinking because people like teh city of Cambridge welcomes you and makes sure you get every benefit you can.
 
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mikiemo83

mikiemo83

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Frankly, the only way for gun control to work is to confiscate and destroy all the guns in the world and destroy them. That will never happen. Criminals will always find a way to get to guns. If they can't get to guns, it will be knives, bombs, etc.

Here is my big thing why I do not support more gun control laws, criminals don't obey laws to begin with. New laws will only affect those who choose to obey them. Frankly, New York states new gun laws are so strict that all but two counties oppose them.

Overall, you can't regulate stupid. My firearms have never been used in a crime, fired in an unsafe manner, or anything. I find it annoying that people want to regulate my hobby because 1% of people with a gun do something stupid.

Frankly, some of the current gun laws are a little too much for me. This is only an example, but if someone is convicted of felony theft (more then $1,000) when they were young, they (unless they petition to knock it down to a misdemeanor) can never own a gun. Unless you were convicted of a crime where you physically hurt someone (assaulting them with a gun, knife, hands/feet), I believe you shouldn't lose your gun rights. Now, I am not actively trying to change it right now.

Did you know it is a felony to lie on the background check form (form 4473)? Know how many times those crimes are prosecuted, very little (I last heard 1%).
I am pro gun ownership, I just don't see it as the cause of these crimes.

so I ask:

if I am not hiding anything, like most gun owners, why would registering my guns mean anything to me?

if I am of sound mind to own the gun, why would testing my mental state mean anything to me?
 

Coltsfan2theend

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If someone tries something they do it in a "gun free zone". Maybe ending these and making conceal carry legal everywhere. Now I am not saying that everyone should carry or own guns, but what I am saying is they never seem to try to rob a gun shop when it is open (sure they do when it is closed). Maybe it is because they know there could be armed resistance. If you know there is not guns, they are more then likely to act stupid.
 
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mikiemo83

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If someone tries something they do it in a "gun free zone". Maybe ending these and making conceal carry legal everywhere. Now I am not saying that everyone should carry or own guns, but what I am saying is they never seem to try to rob a gun shop when it is open (sure they do when it is closed). Maybe it is because they know there could be armed resistance. If you know there is not guns, they are more then likely to act stupid.
are movie theaters gun free? are Military bases gun free? Iknow i know!!

I agree you are more unlikely to break a law or threaten a person's life if you fear a response than if you know they are not armed.
 

MAYHEM

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This is only an example, but if someone is convicted of felony theft (more then $1,000) when they were young, they (unless they petition to knock it down to a misdemeanor) can never own a gun. Unless you were convicted of a crime where you physically hurt someone (assaulting them with a gun, knife, hands/feet), I believe you shouldn't lose your gun rights. Now, I am not actively trying to change it right now.

I agree that certain non-violent felonies shouldn't ban someone from the right to defend themselves. Marijuana possession is another one I don't get. I'm more bias against limited guns to alcohol abusers than marijuana users.
 

MAYHEM

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Drugs: too much money to be made with them illegal, will not happen...and what drugs should be legal? weed or Ice?
.

My opinion is that drugs like meth being legal is a bad idea, but think marijuana should be. Of course, some prescription meds are just as bad as meth.
 
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mikiemo83

mikiemo83

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My opinion is that drugs like meth being legal is a bad idea, but think marijuana should be. Of course, some prescription meds are just as bad as meth.

you legalize it, bury those who can't stop themselves and move on - I know it sounds cold and it is but I think all or nothing on the legalization.

weed only means only beer and wine for alcohol
 

HSanders

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I think the immediate Darwin elimination by overdose of some of teh crazy shit would in a way help it long term. sadly i fear it would also make the legalization of drugs hard to maintain during that time.
I am for legalization of all drugs if any EEOC protection of addicts is repealed, and it's still considered illegal to operate any vehicles while under the influence. I wish they'd repeal EEO protection for alcoholics too. I'm in favor of adult choices=adult consequences but laws don't always work that way (ie insanity plea, etc). Honestly, I just hate that police have to risk their lives going on gang war patrols over these drug gangs. I couldn't care less if all those gangs just shoot and kill each other.

I struggle with some of the gun stuff. I am pro gun ownership and we have them. But I surely want to make it tougher for people with mental health issues etc. to obtain them legally. As for the illegal aspect, I'm wondering if more rigid enforcement of current laws would curtail repeat offenders. Or perhaps strengthening them. Not that I believe a threat of a punishment stops violent people from doing things, but it may keep that person from doing anything again if they commit crimes involving an illeglly possessed gun and they are in prison for life, no parole or something. And if a minor child gets ahold of an adult's weapon and commits a crime, the adult faces more stringent legal consequences.
 
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mikiemo83

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I am for legalization of all drugs if any EEOC protection of addicts is repealed, and it's still considered illegal to operate any vehicles while under the influence. I wish they'd repeal EEO protection for alcoholics too. I'm in favor of adult choices=adult consequences but laws don't always work that way (ie insanity plea, etc). Honestly, I just hate that police have to risk their lives going on gang war patrols over these drug gangs. I couldn't care less if all those gangs just shoot and kill each other.
this should go without saying. you know the possibilities when you take that 1st sid, toke, sniff, needle.....

I struggle with some of the gun stuff. I am pro gun ownership and we have them. But I surely want to make it tougher for people with mental health issues etc. to obtain them legally. As for the illegal aspect, I'm wondering if more rigid enforcement of current laws would curtail repeat offenders. Or perhaps strengthening them. Not that I believe a threat of a punishment stops violent people from doing things, but it may keep that person from doing anything again if they commit crimes involving an illeglly possessed gun and they are in prison for life, no parole or something. And if a minor child gets ahold of an adult's weapon and commits a crime, the adult faces more stringent legal consequences.
I am for additional control, but I have nothing to hide, nothing I am worried about
 

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you legalize it, bury those who can't stop themselves and move on - I know it sounds cold and it is but I think all or nothing on the legalization.

I'm a marijuana advocate, and don't like that it's lumped in with other illegal drugs.

weed only means only beer and wine for alcohol

That compares better to only legalizing reggie bush, but not the kush.
 
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mikiemo83

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I'm a marijuana advocate, and don't like that it's lumped in with other illegal drugs.



That compares better to only legalizing reggie bush, but not the kush.
that is why I asked weed or Ice at the start. they are two different things.

never smoked, never took a drug so I will allow you to know teh difference and trust your opinion.

I do recall hearing recently (Chris Herron visited my town and I went to listen) that the weed out there to day is so much stronger and purer than the stuff at woodstock, for example. Also a lot of weed today is being tainted. the shit pushers are mixing it into week by spraying it onto it. one area 76% of kids tested gfor weed and out of that over 50% tested for harder drugs, most without knowing they were doing it.
 

MAYHEM

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that is why I asked weed or Ice at the start. they are two different things.

never smoked, never took a drug so I will allow you to know teh difference and trust your opinion.

I do recall hearing recently (Chris Herron visited my town and I went to listen) that the weed out there to day is so much stronger and purer than the stuff at woodstock, for example. Also a lot of weed today is being tainted. the shit pushers are mixing it into week by spraying it onto it. one area 76% of kids tested gfor weed and out of that over 50% tested for harder drugs, most without knowing they were doing it.
Marijuana is not physically addictive and is the main difference between that and other illegal drugs besides hallucinogens. I've never done meth, but my observations of meth users is that they throw their life away for their addiction.

Marijuana is more potent you could say than before as it takes less, but it also isn't. You pretty much hit a point where you level off. One hit of marijuana for someone nowadays might be enough instead of smoking a joint for example. Does smoking more cause more of an effect, usually not. There are also no recorded overdoses that I am aware of.

Synthetic cannabinoids is another issue, and is a byproduct of having the real thing illegalized I imagine.
 

PatsFanLisa

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that is why I asked weed or Ice at the start. they are two different things.

never smoked, never took a drug so I will allow you to know teh difference and trust your opinion.

I do recall hearing recently (Chris Herron visited my town and I went to listen) that the weed out there to day is so much stronger and purer than the stuff at woodstock, for example. Also a lot of weed today is being tainted. the shit pushers are mixing it into week by spraying it onto it. one area 76% of kids tested gfor weed and out of that over 50% tested for harder drugs, most without knowing they were doing it.

The answer to that is grow your own, a few plants every few months. I am for legalization of all drugs. You want to shoot shit in your arm? Go for it. The harm is only to you. Take the dealers and the money out of it, you're taking crime off the street, dealers off the the street, and emptying out prisons.

Sent from smartphone device.
 
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