Global Warming

TipRoast

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Thanks again! :) My concern was that as we head to using more wind turbines that there would be a way to winterize them. So, it's really good to know that there is because . . . "Baby, it's cold outside".

This is an article that I recently found that explains more about how it is done. Can't say that I understand a lot of it, just that I appreciate knowing that there are ways to winterize wind turbines.
Here's an article that explains how wind power in New York operates year round.

 

TipRoast

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What happens when the wind... doesn't wind?
The short answer is this: batteries.

The longer answer is this: distributed systems.

The benefits offered by large-scale distributed systems is why states other than Texas have integrated themselves into power grids. High demand occurs at different times in different places, and a widely dispersed distributed system with multiple sources of energy production (oil,gas,coal,nuclear,hydro,wind,solar) helps to insulate the customer base from wild fluctuations due to vagaries in demand, weather, and resource availability. That means more stability in both the service and the price.

Power grids aren't perfect - people on the grids still get blackouts and brownouts. The Eastern and Western power grids are not 100% reliable or resilient to all forms of natural disasters. However, those grids are multi-national (Canada and US), and a good percentage of the power generation equipment is located in areas that get severe winter weather. The regulators and operators of that equipment wouldn't consider the four days of winter weather just seen in Texas as particularly challenging. Many of them look forward to that kind of weather and go out hunting and ice fishing and skiing and snowmobiling.

When I lived in Massachusetts, some streets in our town would lose power once or twice every winter. But it was always due to downed power lines caused by ice-laden tree branches. It was something the power companies planned for, and something people in our area knew could happen. We would just fire up the wood stove, put the tea kettle on it, and get out the cribbage board. I would venture to guess that people in Michigan have a similar outlook and have had similar experiences (although I'm not sure about whether cribbage is played very much in Michigan).

One more thing - getting power from wind is not something new. It's a technology that's been around for hundreds of years, and it will be around long after civilization transitions away from fossil fuels. And that will happen - there are countries today that get more than 10% of their energy from renewable sources, and the number of countries for which that is true, and the percentages themselves, are only going to go up.
 
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aloyouis

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The short answer is this: batteries.

The longer answer is this: distributed systems.

The benefits offered by large-scale distributed systems is why states other than Texas have integrated themselves into power grids. High demand occurs at different times in different places, and a widely dispersed distributed system with multiple sources of energy production (oil,gas,coal,nuclear,hydro,wind,solar) helps to insulate the customer base from wild fluctuations due to vagaries in demand, weather, and resource availability. That means more stability in both the service and the price.

Power grids aren't perfect - people on the grids still get blackouts and brownouts. The Eastern and Western power grids are not 100% reliable or resilient to all forms of natural disasters. However, those grids are multi-national (Canada and US), and a good percentage of the power generation equipment is located in areas that get severe winter weather. The regulators and operators of that equipment wouldn't consider the four days of winter weather just seen in Texas as particularly challenging. Many of them look forward to that kind of weather and go out hunting and ice fishing and skiing and snowmobiling.

When I lived in Massachusetts, some streets in our town would lose power once or twice every winter. But it was always due to downed power lines caused by ice-laden tree branches. It was something the power companies planned for, and something people in our area knew could happen. We would just fire up the wood stove, put the tea kettle on it, and get out the cribbage board. I would venture to guess that people in Michigan have a similar outlook and have had similar experiences (although I'm not sure about whether cribbage is played very much in Michigan).

One more thing - getting power from wind is not something new. It's a technology that's been around for hundreds of years, and it will be around long after civilization transitions away from fossil fuels. And that will happen - there are countries today that get more than 10% of their energy from renewable sources, and the number of countries for which that is true, and the percentages themselves, are only going to go up.
Where/how do we get the batteries?
 

johnlocke

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We must remain on fossil fuels or start going nuclear. To fail to do so would be suicide. Look, if you want a different alternative, whatever but the current alternatives have a low ceiling and will never be the answer.

There is some amazing technology being developed, I mean stuff that blows my mind. I'm all in favor of the cheapest possible energy for it allows for the expansion of human development.

On that note, here in my area gas has gone up almost 50 cents in my area since Biden took office. How do you like me now?


 
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PatsFanLisa

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Yeah, gas is skyrocketing thanks to Crazy Joe. Already up 55 cents in my town.


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Well, that's not quite true. Prices are going up for several reasons.

1. Crude oil prices are surging. They tanked last year because COVID destroyed economies and stopped people from traveling. So OPEC and it's allies slashed oil production to prop up oil prices. Now, OPEC has been slow to boost output again, so prices are rising steadily.

2. The brutal winter in TX has impacted the state's oil production, forcing refineries to close in our top crude-producing state. Eleven refineries have shut down there, taking at least 20% of our refining capability offline.

3. The pandemic also knocked out refineries. There were more than a dozen refinery shutdowns that reduced production nationwide by more than a billion barrels a day. A lot of the closures are speculated to be permanent, at least as far as I'm seeing in the stock market trends reports.

4. Now that more and more people are getting vaccinated, travel will pick up, and with what's listed above, fuel costs will rise because global oil demand will rise and production will continue to lag.

5. As summer starts to get closer, as is common, aside from the above-mentioned, summertime blends of gasoline cost more traditionally. Higher grade gasoline is used in the summer to reduce emissions that cause smog, and that historically has added at least 15 cents per gallon.

So, yeah, gas prices are going to be higher unless OPEC raises production in the near future. But it's unfair to blame this on Biden. By the same logic, I could blame it on Trump for politicizing the pandemic and politicizing wearing masks which might have stopped the spread of the pandemic and had this country back online by midsummer last year. While that's actually more fair in the bigger picture, I'm not going to use that logic.
 

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Yeah, gas is skyrocketing thanks to Crazy Joe. Already up 55 cents in my town.


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I've noticed a sharp increase in prices over the past few weeks. I won't say yet that it's because of this Admins policies.
However I do expect prices to increase sharply over the next year because of this Admins stated policies.
That hurts the poor and middle class the most, the very people the Dems say that they care the most about.
 

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There's a reason the oil prices are going up. This administration is anti-fracking and pro-green energy and it's foolish at the worst possible time.
 

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There's a reason the oil prices are going up. This administration is anti-fracking and pro-green energy and it's foolish at the worst possible time.
Or if we want to use non biased logic.

 

TipRoast

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As the data above shows, when George W. Bush took office in January 2001, the average price of gas in the US was $1.49.

During his eight years in office, the price steadily rose until it peaked at $4.11 in July of 2008. It started to fall rapidly after that peak.

When Barak Obama took office in January 2009, the average price of gas in the US was $1.84.

During his eight years in office, the price rose steadily until is peaked at $3.91 in September of 2012. It gradually declined after that.

US government environmental policies affect gas prices in the US, as does global supply and demand, and weather, and US state taxes.

Gas prices go up and down due to those market forces, as PFL pointed out. This is not news.
 

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As the data above shows, when George W. Bush took office in January 2001, the average price of gas in the US was $1.49.

During his eight years in office, the price steadily rose until it peaked at $4.11 in July of 2008. It started to fall rapidly after that peak.

When Barak Obama took office in January 2009, the average price of gas in the US was $1.84.

During his eight years in office, the price rose steadily until is peaked at $3.91 in September of 2012. It gradually declined after that.

US government environmental policies affect gas prices in the US, as does global supply and demand, and weather, and US state taxes.

Gas prices go up and down due to those market forces, as PFL pointed out. This is not news.
You mean when Biden took office he didnt run to his desk and jack up gas prices everywhere as his first duty?
 

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As the data above shows, when George W. Bush took office in January 2001, the average price of gas in the US was $1.49.

During his eight years in office, the price steadily rose until it peaked at $4.11 in July of 2008. It started to fall rapidly after that peak.

When Barak Obama took office in January 2009, the average price of gas in the US was $1.84.

During his eight years in office, the price rose steadily until is peaked at $3.91 in September of 2012. It gradually declined after that.

US government environmental policies affect gas prices in the US, as does global supply and demand, and weather, and US state taxes.

Gas prices go up and down due to those market forces, as PFL pointed out. This is not news.

I am fully aware that those policies affect much. I have been diligently fighting the eco movent in earnest for 30 years. They are not benevolent to humanity as their founders and intellectuals have clearly stated for many years.
This ant-fracking thing by this administration is in fact part of those policies.

Expect it to get worse.
 

Inspector_50

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I am fully aware that those policies affect much. I have been diligently fighting the eco movent in earnest for 30 years. They are not benevolent to humanity as their founders and intellectuals have clearly stated for many years.
This ant-fracking thing by this administration is in fact part of those policies.

Expect it to get worse.
The fracking was not mentioned in anything I read at all what so ever. So until I see different I will go by what the non biased experts say. I know its the cool thing to blame everything on the new administration, but that does not look like the case.
 

TipRoast

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I am fully aware that those policies affect much. I have been diligently fighting the eco movent in earnest for 30 years. They are not benevolent to humanity as their founders and intellectuals have clearly stated for many years.
This ant-fracking thing by this administration is in fact part of those policies.

Expect it to get worse.

Are there US government environmental policies that you consider to be anti-benevolent to humanity?

The Clean Air Act?

The Clean Water Act?

The Endangered Species Act?

Cleanup of hazardous waste as provided for by CERCLA?
 
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johnlocke

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Which US government environmental policies do you consider to be anti-benevolent to humanity?

The Clean Air Act?

The Clean Water Act?

The Endangered Species Act?

Cleanup of hazardous waste as provided for by CERCLA?

All of them for various reasons at base.

And none of these are within government purvirew.

This could all be don't privately. I'll give hazardous waste a pass for the time being.

How about the attempt at the Wild And Scenic Rivers Act that would have required all buildings removed to at less a mile away from any river or tributary. Homes would be removed and 1000's would be affected in NH alone. We won a long and hard fight on the state and national level. worked with and testified before Congress and won.

Then Trump with the swipe of a pen undid most of our work from the '90s. He didn't make it retroactive though. Grr.

I can tell you many horror stories of eco regulation effects on individuals and families.
 

TipRoast

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All of them for various reasons at base.

And none of these are within government purvirew.

This could all be don't privately. I'll give hazardous waste a pass for the time being.

How about the attempt at the Wild And Scenic Rivers Act that would have required all buildings removed to at less a mile away from any river or tributary. Homes would be removed and 1000's would be affected in NH alone. We won a long and hard fight on the state and national level. worked with and testified before Congress and won.

Then Trump with the swipe of a pen undid most of our work from the '90s. He didn't make it retroactive though. Grr.

I can tell you many horror stories of eco regulation effects on individuals and families.

I don't trust private entities when it comes to protecting the environment. There have been too many Love Canal stories in the US to let me think that private industry will ever put the long-term welfare of society ahead of its short-term profit motive.
 

johnlocke

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I don't trust private entities when it comes to protecting the environment. There have been too many Love Canal stories in the US to let me think that private industry will ever put the long-term welfare of society ahead of its short-term profit motive.

There are already laws on the books to, legit laws that protect property rights and health. Don't need more and more restrictions strangling the last vestiges of rights in this country.
 

aloyouis

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I don't trust private entities when it comes to protecting the environment. There have been too many Love Canal stories in the US to let me think that private industry will ever put the long-term welfare of society ahead of its short-term profit motive.
But you do trust the government?
 
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