Gronk retires....

So you put zero blame on Bill and Kraft?

Btw, There have been many players since 2000 that can’t stand the Patriots/Bill. Brady and Gronk are hardly outliers in that respect.

Blame for what precisely?

I'm a managent and ownership guy mostly because I had spent all of my youth in my dad's built from nothing business and many years running my own and know what it takes and the incredible level of thought, time and effort to build success.

I fully appreciated and took care of my employees extremely well. But make no mistake if any one, even the best and most skilled where harming morale which translates fully to a breakdown of the culture I built which leads to lack of production which properly understood was a win/win/win for all involved. My employees, customers and myself it was time to say goodbye.

Sometimes it was painful, emotionally painful but the right thing to do was to put the highest value on what I had created which provided great benefit to many. That benefit was not my goal but it was quite synergistic and ultimately symbiotic.

Gronk and Brady, especially Brady had become a turd in the punch bowl as evidenced by his terrible demeanor in press conferences in what, 2019 when they were approaching 8 and 0 predicated a good deal on fantastic defense.

Tom exhibited much more than that and he had to go. I was completely ready for the divorce. Divorces tend to be messy for emotion has an ability to screw shit up.

I've had diva employees who were in fact fantastic at their craft yet the diva factor, demands, shit talking and more made them more than expendable as my goals were long-term, well thought out and hard fought for.

Yeah, they had to go.

Iin the interest of the same fairness I gave my employees because we both benefitted with a full and open hearing of where they were coming from I'm open to have it pointed out where I'm off the mark here..
 
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To echo what John is saying. Mazz, if you don't understand how important the culture that Bill and RKK painstakingly built up over many years was to the Patriot's success then I don't know what to say to you. Of course, Tom was important to that, he was crucial and that why people talked about "The Trinity", Tom, Bill and Robert. But Tom should therefore have been the first to know that the team is bigger than any one player. Tom fundamentally changed sometime in the mid-2010s. He decided he should be bigger than the team, should be allowed to have a say in the team and players, he went behind Bills' back to strongarm RKK over Jimmy G. He then had some kind of mid-life crisis where he delved straight into social media and decided he wanted to have a public 'personality'.

He's the one that changed not Bill. And that's fine. The divorce parallel has been discussed and it's right. Sometimes, a partner changes and there's no way back.
 
To echo what John is saying. Mazz, if you don't understand how important the culture that Bill and RKK painstakingly built up over many years was to the Patriot's success then I don't know what to say to you. Of course, Tom was important to that, he was crucial and that why people talked about "The Trinity", Tom, Bill and Robert. But Tom should therefore have been the first to know that the team is bigger than any one player. Tom fundamentally changed sometime in the mid-2010s. He decided he should be bigger than the team, should be allowed to have a say in the team and players, he went behind Bills' back to strongarm RKK over Jimmy G. He then had some kind of mid-life crisis where he delved straight into social media and decided he wanted to have a public 'personality'.

He's the one that changed not Bill. And that's fine. The divorce parallel has been discussed and it's right. Sometimes, a partner changes and there's no way back.
Agree on when he changed his attitude and I wonder - How much did Super G have to do with that change?
 
Blame for what precisely?

I'm a managent and ownership guy mostly because I had spent all of my youth in my dad's built from nothing business and many years running my own and know what it takes and the incredible level of thought, time and effort to build success.

I fully appreciated and took care of my employees extremely well. But make no mistake if any one, even the best and most skilled where harming morale which translates fully to a breakdown of the culture I built which leads to lack of production which properly understood was a win/win/win for all involved. My employees, customers and myself it was time to say goodbye.

Sometimes it was painful, emotionally painful but the right thing to do was to put the highest value on what I had created which provided great benefit to many. That benefit was not my goal but it was quite synergistic and ultimately symbiotic.

Gronk and Brady, especially Brady had become a turd in the punch bowl as evidenced by his terrible demeanor in press conferences in what, 2019 when they were approaching 8 and 0 predicated a good deal on fantastic defense.

Tom exhibited much more than that and he had to go. I was completely ready for the divorce. Divorces tend to be messy for emotion has an ability to screw shit up.

I've had diva employees who were in fact fantastic at their craft yet the diva factor, demands, shit talking and more made them more than expendable as my goals were long-term, well thought out and hard fought for.

Yeah, they had to go.

Iin the interest of the same fairness I gave my employees because we both benefitted with a full and open hearing of where they were coming from I'm open to have it pointed out where I'm off the mark here..
Extremely myopic view.
 
Extremely myopic view.

Really? Define a myopic view. State your terms and provide an assetive argument then let's talk.

What do you actually find problematic with what I wrote?
 
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So you put zero blame on Bill and Kraft?

Btw, There have been many players since 2000 that can’t stand the Patriots/Bill. Brady and Gronk are hardly outliers in that respect.
How in the hell do you know that they "can't stand the Patriots/Bill"? Do you have private conversations with them, other than in your dreams?
That post was a disaster.
 
How in the hell do you know that they "can't stand the Patriots/Bill"? Do you have private conversations with them, other than in your dreams?
That post was a disaster.

Even something that 99.9% of the knowledgeable fanbase would disagree with is fair game for Mazz to claim as fact as long as she thinks it is .1% possible and negative about the Patriots.

Credibility be damned.
 
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Her opinion simp!y doesn't matter.

Not to be disagreeable although that appears to be what I'm best at to very good ends.

I just want to say, her opinion may not matter cuz opinions tend to be shit biased crap but where she's coming from carries a lot in it and far from just about sports.

Maybe it's just for me but I'd like to hear what thinking her thoughts come from in a attempt to understand others better.

Much like @rivshark86 @Mazz are incongruous to a degree. Their thoughts on other more worldly issues are quite good yet their thoughts on the Patriots are quite inconsistent to the premises they otherwise hold.

Maybe it's just me but I'd like to hear her deeper thoughts and not just lashing out unrealistically with this stuff.

OK. I'll show myself out. :alien::beer:
 
I woke up in a bad mood. I went for my walk on a rocky beach with little seabirds running in and out on the waves advancement and retreat. I'm ashamed to say I left no tern unstoned. :deadhorse:

Screw you and your grouchy butt. 😅

But thank you and your grammar and spelling English major overlords for me.

The cracked screen of my phone straight has tern looking proper like term and the spell check just often doesn't feel me. Bitch. 😆

Rectifying the cracked screen and that heartless spell check bitch in about an hour. 😅❤❤❤

Seriously thank you. Words me things. 💖
 
Not to be disagreeable although that appears to be what I'm best at to very good ends.

I just want to say, her opinion may not matter cuz opinions tend to be shit biased crap but where she's coming from carries a lot in it and far from just about sports.

Maybe it's just for me but I'd like to hear what thinking her thoughts come from in a attempt to understand others better.

Much like @rivshark86 @Mazz are incongruous to a degree. Their thoughts on other more worldly issues are quite good yet their thoughts on the Patriots are quite inconsistent to the premises they otherwise hold.

Maybe it's just me but I'd like to hear her deeper thoughts and not just lashing out unrealistically with this stuff.

OK. I'll show myself out. :alien::beer:
Just to be clear, I'm not asserting that her opinion has never counted. I'm saying that her opinion doesn't count now. And the reason why I believe that's the case is that for as far back as I can remember, she's been lying. Not presenting reasonably arguable points of view, she's been lying. Her claims are so far f###### out there and so untruthful so as to eliminate her from being a legitimate source of information. I understand and appreciate points of view that are different than mine as long as they're reasonable and somewhat based in fact. Nothing I've read posted by her in recent, and not-so-recent, history even remotely falls into the reasonable and facts based category. Just doesn't and hasn't.
 
Not to be disagreeable although that appears to be what I'm best at to very good ends.

I just want to say, her opinion may not matter cuz opinions tend to be shit biased crap but where she's coming from carries a lot in it and far from just about sports.

Maybe it's just for me but I'd like to hear what thinking her thoughts come from in a attempt to understand others better.

Much like @rivshark86 @Mazz are incongruous to a degree. Their thoughts on other more worldly issues are quite good yet their thoughts on the Patriots are quite inconsistent to the premises they otherwise hold.

Maybe it's just me but I'd like to hear her deeper thoughts and not just lashing out unrealistically with this stuff.

OK. I'll show myself out. :alien::beer:
I appreciate your thoughtful and civil post.
IMO, this is what a message board is designed to do. Share opinions without getting personal and insulting.

I do agree with you that we do seem to share the same point of view on most things outside of the patriots over the past 6-7 years and what has transpired. When you say you want my deeper thoughts, Is it related to this specific topic of Brady and Gronk and their disassociation with the patriots or are you more looking for my overall thoughts on the patriots the last several years? Happy to share on either or both.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not asserting that her opinion has never counted. I'm saying that her opinion doesn't count now. And the reason why I believe that's the case is that for as far back as I can remember, she's been lying. Not presenting reasonably arguable points of view, she's been lying. Her claims are so far f###### out there and so untruthful so as to eliminate her from being a legitimate source of information. I understand and appreciate points of view that are different than mine as long as they're reasonable and somewhat based in fact. Nothing I've read posted by her in recent, and not-so-recent, history even remotely falls into the reasonable and facts based category. Just doesn't and hasn't.

And to be clear as well my interest here is not in her different view and yes it is completely unrealistic by all measures and accounts.

What interests me is the thinking involved which can provide such disparate and quite contradictory views.
 
I appreciate your thoughtful and civil post.
IMO, this is what a message board is designed to do. Share opinions without getting personal and insulting.

I do agree with you that we do seem to share the same point of view on most things outside of the patriots over the past 6-7 years and what has transpired. When you say you want my deeper thoughts, Is it related to this specific topic of Brady and Gronk and their disassociation with the patriots or are you more looking for my overall thoughts on the patriots the last several years? Happy to share on either or both.

I'm probably not asking the question right. The Gronk, Brady love and Belichick hate really appears to be very contradictory to your other more grounded thoughts.

I'm going for a walk. Fuck this heat and @imapig i totally blame your ass for dragging this shit up with you from Florida. Go screw buddy. :4321:

But I'm going for a walk to the store and will think about how rephrase the question better.
 
And to be clear as well my interest here is not in her different view and yes it is completely unrealistic by all measures and accounts.

What interests me is the thinking involved which can provide such disparate and quite contradictory views.

I think you are over thinking this. Mazz is still hurt that Brady is gone. Even more so because he WANTED to leave the Patriots and (not that he knew it) her.

Unable to hate Brady for this she has turned her feelings on the organization in general and Belichick in particular. They did this to her in her mind.

So what is the very obvious reason for the behavior?

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Dr. aloyouis
 
I'm probably not asking the question right. The Gronk, Brady love and Belichick hate really appears to be very contradictory to your other more grounded thoughts.

I'm going for a walk. Fuck this heat and @imapig i totally blame your ass for dragging this shit up with you from Florida. Go screw buddy. :4321:

But I'm going for a walk to the store and will think about how rephrase the question better.
That’s a pretty black and white statement. It’s not so much that I have love for Brady and Gronk and hatred for Bill as those are really strong terms.

My issue over the last several years has always been Bill's roster management. I have stated up here numerous times how much his drafts hurt the team and led to Bradys discontent on top of Bill's benching of Butler in the Super Bowl. His worst coaching decision that lost Brady and Gronk.

Many here feel that Brady changed and yet I saw a much more drastic change in Bill and how he was approaching team building. His belief in defense and a running game in today’s league is baffling. It almost seems lost on him how offensive the league has become. It has also always bothered me that he has his sons on the team as well which is nepotism at its finest.

I am really not sure what to make of this past off-season as he did almost next to nothing in free agency and had a head scratching draft on top. And then the offensive coaches leave so much to be desired with Jones going into his second year.

I feel as though these are very pertinent issues to discuss but there is so much Bill support up here that people seem to be blinded to his shortcomings which in my opinion have been glaring the last several years.
 
Seriously thank you. Words me things. 💖
You're very welcome, Words me things, too. :rofl:

Cheers

I hope you believe that I don't care the least about typos, or grammar or anything like that, most all of us are banging away on a keyboard reckessly. But if you leave me an opening for another senseless joke, I fall at your mercy for my bad behavior. For example check the first line of THIS post. :rofl:
 
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You're very welcome, Words me things, too. :rofl:

Cheers

I hope you believe that I don't care the least about typos, or grammar or anything like that, most all of us are banging away on a keyboard reckessly. But if you leave me an opening for another senseless joke, I fall at your mercy for my bad behavior. For example check the first line of THIS post. :rofl:

Oh my freaking God. I actually proofread that post for a change on my way out the door and I still fucked it up.

JHC.

😅

Keep being you man. It's wonderful. ❤
 
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