Gun Control Breaking it down

Baron Samedi

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Is there a better description of the liberal menace?

Take your pick....

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.


Most people want security in this world, not liberty.

All government, of course, is against liberty.

All by the eminently quotable HL Mencken, of course.

99% of Republicans in this country, of course, are liberal as well. Someday the Republican voters may notice that their elected officials bear no resemblance to their candidates, even though they are the same people.
 

Patriots-Lifer

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Originally Posted by Darth Despot View Post
Yes, I don't think asking someone to show an ID to prove who they are is a violation of anyone's right. I do it all the time.
Thank you I too think it should be law as I do think you should have some type of gun license. I just found most who say there should be no voter ID laws use the argument we'll it's a constitutional right yada yada yada unless of course it's the second amendment.

~Dee~

I have no issue with voter ID so long as they are willing to accept reasonable types of ID. Any kind of photo ID issued by an officially recognized institution should be acceptable. Universities, My Son found that his Notre Dame ID was not acceptable because it was not a state school. Also there are people who have been voting for decades but due to advanced age or some other physical disability no longer carry a DL. The state ID only is good for 3 years yet the state will not accept it if it is expired. Really? Why is that, how would an expired ID be less proof of Identification of an 80 something year old?
 

deec77

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I have no issue with voter ID so long as they are willing to accept reasonable types of ID. Any kind of photo ID issued by an officially recognized institution should be acceptable. Universities, My Son found that his Notre Dame ID was not acceptable because it was not a state school. Also there are people who have been voting for decades but due to advanced age or some other physical disability no longer carry a DL. The state ID only is good for 3 years yet the state will not accept it if it is expired. Really? Why is that, how would an expired ID be less proof of Identification of an 80 something year old?

Have a voter ID easy. You register in a state and get an ID. Not sure why you need to go through all your hoops. If already registered and don't have an ID go to the town hall and get one. My mother never drove but she managed to get a state issue ID when my dad passed away. Was your son a resident? Or did he keep his own state residency? I have no issues without taking school issued IDs why let a voter vote in their state of residency and in a state they're s student in? They do have mail in votes. My sons and Son inlaw all voted over seas in our state election.

~Dee~

~Dee~
 

Patriots-Lifer

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Have a voter ID easy. You register in a state and get an ID. Not sure why you need to go through all your hoops. If already registered and don't have an ID go to the town hall and get one. My mother never drove but she managed to get a state issue ID when my dad passed away. Was your son a resident? Or did he keep his own state residency? I have no issues without taking school issued IDs why let a voter vote in their state of residency and in a state they're s student in? They do have mail in votes. My sons and Son inlaw all voted over seas in our state election.

~Dee~

~Dee~

Dee my point is only that there is no need for some of the regulations about types of IDs. My son did vote but had to go back to get another ID to do so. Getting a state ID is not always simple in all states. Some states have gone out of their way to make it as difficult as possible for the poorest of their communities. Some people don't live in places that have access to public transportation. BTW Notre Dame is in Indiana where my Son grew up. I worked as a judge at the polls for many years and am amazed at the way things have been reworked to help whatever party in in power in the state.
 

HSanders

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My dad voluntarily gave up his DL at age 85 (he's 87 now), but he waited too long (6 months) to get a state ID (he rarely has to show ID for anything so didn't think about needing one) and now the state won't accept his expired DL as any sort of proof he's who he says he is in order to GET a state ID. Lots of paperwork needed. He has a passport, but again...it is expired. Asking a guy who is almost 90, and a naturalized citizen for some of this stuff as far as CURRENT WITHIN 6 months is a bit much, IMHO.
http://publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/bmv2424.pdf
I have ZERO problem with being asked for ID to vote, but I think there's a happy medium in what is required to get a sufficient ID. Maybe they could just fingerprint everyone when they get ID/drivers license and a matching fingerprint could be used as sufficient proof if you have an expired passport or DL??
 

deec77

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Dee my point is only that there is no need for some of the regulations about types of IDs. My son did vote but had to go back to get another ID to do so. Getting a state ID is not always simple in all states. Some states have gone out of their way to make it as difficult as possible for the poorest of their communities. Some people don't live in places that have access to public transportation. BTW Notre Dame is in Indiana where my Son grew up. I worked as a judge at the polls for many years and am amazed at the way things have been reworked to help whatever party in in power in the state.

I know where Notre Dame is I had no idea where you're from. My point was there should be a free voter ID given when you register. If you're already registered then they can issue you one. How do they vote if they have no transportation? They have registration buses and such why not issue voters ID's there. It's a win win situation those who can't afford a DMV state ID wouldn't need one. College students who don't drive would get one. Poor people would get one. Indiana's law is a state issued ID not sure if a state college student would qualify

My dad voluntarily gave up his DL at age 85 (he's 87 now), but he waited too long (6 months) to get a state ID (he rarely has to show ID for anything so didn't think about needing one) and now the state won't accept his expired DL as any sort of proof he's who he says he is in order to GET a state ID. Lots of paperwork needed. He has a passport, but again...it is expired. Asking a guy who is almost 90, and a naturalized citizen for some of this stuff as far as CURRENT WITHIN 6 months is a bit much, IMHO.
http://publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/bmv2424.pdf
I have ZERO problem with being asked for ID to vote, but I think there's a happy medium in what is required to get a sufficient ID. Maybe they could just fingerprint everyone when they get ID/drivers license and a matching fingerprint could be used as sufficient proof if you have an expired passport or DL??

He doesn't need one in Ohio but if he did.
If I were Queen when you register to vote you'd get a picture ID if he's already registered then he should be able to get an ID without so much hassle I agree. Honestly my mom had the same type of issues it took some time and a lot of patience but seriously she couldn't even cash a check without one. She was 75 and had been here for 70 years. She was born a US citizen in Poland. ( her father was born here). They got out on the second to the last ship out of Poland before Germany invaded/took over. The embassy in Warsaw was not easy for them to get to but they managed. Got the paper work to board the ship and They were to send all info to the states unfortunately the Embassy was bombed before they could send it. She was on her Mothers passport at the time. I had to locate the church she was baptized in Poland because even the school she went to here had no official record of her birth. Her mother died when she was 15 and her father left them and to put it nicely was a dirtbag. It wasn't easy but with a lot of help from some relatives and thank goodness for the internet I was able to get a copy of her mothers original passport from the US government.

ID's aren't required in every state. 17 states require voter ID's 15 states require non photo ID's the remaining state require no ID. :shrug_n: That's my point I see no reason not to have to show some form of ID proving first your a citizen second you are who you say you are. To me it would be a win win

~Dee~
 

HSanders

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Wow what a story, Dee. Amazing!

My parents and I live in the same county and we have been required to show ID to vote for the past two years, so I guess different places can require it even if the state itself doesn't? I admit I haven't paid attention that closely to those nuances since I have a drivers license. My one friend who is a veteran, he wasn't allowed to use his military ID I don't believe.

If voting is a right that if you are too poor to get an id that's a reason not to require one, then so is owning a gun. Unless you are a hypocrite of course.
 

deec77

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Wow what a story, Dee. Amazing!

My parents and I live in the same county and we have been required to show ID to vote for the past two years, so I guess different places can require it even if the state itself doesn't? I admit I haven't paid attention that closely to those nuances since I have a drivers license. My one friend who is a veteran, he wasn't allowed to use his military ID I don't believe.

If voting is a right that if you are too poor to get an id that's a reason not to require one, then so is owning a gun. Unless you are a hypocrite of course.

You can show a military ID as long as it's not expired. Technically if the state doesn't require a voter ID then the county can't force you to show one.

As for the rest it's really difficult for some of the immigrants from WW2 to get original BC's they just don't exist. I understand the difficulty I do but I do also feel that there should be some proof of who you are in order to vote. Being to poor or its racist is a cop out.

~Dee~
 

HSanders

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Wow I didn't know that about state vs. county, thanks Dee. I will tell my friend! Usually the only time I have to show my driver's license that is unrelated to driving is when an enterprising cashier wants to see proof it is my signature on a credit card or something, and voting. I'm past the age of being carded, sadly. LOL

I agree, perhaps something with a SS # on it that 's official like a filed tax return along with some other picture ID? I remember when I moved to Boston for college being astonished at how in order to set up a checking account, I needed proof I actually lived there. I had never heard of that before. I had to bring them my lease as proof before they let me give them money.
 

deec77

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Wow I didn't know that about state vs. county, thanks Dee. I will tell my friend! Usually the only time I have to show my driver's license that is unrelated to driving is when an enterprising cashier wants to see proof it is my signature on a credit card or something, and voting. I'm past the age of being carded, sadly. LOL

I agree, perhaps something with a SS # on it that 's official like a filed tax return along with some other picture ID? I remember when I moved to Boston for college being astonished at how in order to set up a checking account, I needed proof I actually lived there. I had never heard of that before. I had to bring them my lease as proof before they let me give them money.

Here's Ohio voting laws

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/elections/Voters/FAQ/ID.aspx

The forms of identification that may be used by a voter who appears at a polling place to vote on Election Day include:

An unexpired Ohio driver’s license or state identification card with present or former address so long as the voter’s present residential address is printed in the official list of registered voters for that precinct;
A military identification;
A photo identification that was issued by the United States government or the State of Ohio, that contains the voter’s name and current address and that has an expiration date that has not passed;
An original or copy of a current utility bill with the voter’s name and present address;
An original or copy of a current bank statement with the voter’s name and present address;
An original or copy of a current government check with the voter’s name and present address;
An original or copy of a current paycheck with the voter’s name and present address; or
An original or copy of a current other government document (other than a notice of voter registration mailed by a board of elections) that shows the voter’s name and present address
.
For utility bills, bank statements, government checks, paychecks, and other government documents, “current” is defined as within the last 12 months. “Utility bill” includes a cell phone bill. “Other government document” includes license renewal and other notices, fishing and marine equipment operator’s license, court papers, or grade reports or transcripts. “Government office” includes any local (including county, city, township, school district and village), state or federal (United States) government office, branch, agency, commission, public college or university or public community college, whether or not in Ohio.

List of all states and ID laws

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state

~Dee~
 

Baron Samedi

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Couple of recent articles I thought I would link to....I got these links from GOA...there are lots of these stories.
Murders Hit Record Lows As Gun Ownership Hits Record Highs

http://bearingarms.com/murders-hit-record-lows-gun-ownership-hits-record-highs/

Armed Robber At Gas Station Pump Shot At By Armed Citizen

http://concealednation.org/2015/12/armed-robber-at-gas-station-pump-shot-at-by-armed-citizen/

And here is why we should NOT ban people on the No FLy List from getting an LTC...becuase the list is ABRITRAY and a JOKE, with no standards or reasons necessary to get on it. ALL they have to do is PUT you on the list if you even apply to get one, or put you on the list if you have one. Really...there is no standards or process, they can just add you for no reason. Incidentally, thaty's why the list is USELESS in the first place, and does nothing to make us safer. Case in Point....Tsarnaev flew out and back with no issues whatsoever, even though he had been investigated by the FBI, which had reason to believe he really WAS a terrorist.

Grinch Democrats Won’t Let This Santa Off The “No Fly” List

http://bearingarms.com/grinch-democrats-wont-let-santa-fly-list/
 

Baron Samedi

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93North

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I like the OP's reasoning process and I don't think we should look to the past for answers. The problem exists now, the solution needs to come from the present.
 

Baron Samedi

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The problem is you treat the issue as black and white - two extremes with no room in the middle for people who are fine with guns but would prefer regulations and not an outright ban.

I probably shoulld have pointed out when we were discussing this, that gun registration is how it started in England, followed by confiscation.

Both of the informed sides in this debate know and understand this. That's why the gun control crowd wants registration, and why the second amendment crowd does not.

Both sides understand that England is the model being applied, they just disagree whether that is a good thing or notl
 

mooseontheloose

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I probably shoulld have pointed out when we were discussing this, that gun registration is how it started in England, followed by confiscation.

Both of the informed sides in this debate know and understand this. That's why the gun control crowd wants registration, and why the second amendment crowd does not.

Both sides understand that England is the model being applied, they just disagree whether that is a good thing or notl

I understand what you're saying. I agree that makes it a difficult issue.
 

Baron Samedi

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anderson

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Half a billion for mental health and more background checks (gun show loophole peaced out) seem to be in the works.
 
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