Julio Jones

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Mazz22 said:
Is this the only forum you belong to? I only ask because I am on quite a few forums and this is exactly how they work. People have strong opinions and don't easily back off of them. I could just as easily accuse the other side of not seeing what I believe to very effective counter points to my position. But quite typically people are dug in. That being said, I actually did change my opinion on this trade but no one seemed to notice because they probably did not want to. I was against this trade a few days ago when this thread was first created and then I came around to not minding the trade after reading a lot of the posts saying why it would be good. So, I did in fact change my opinion based on the other side's posts.
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I belong to several forums. I grew up on forums and actually prefer them to social media. For the most part I think more intelligent conversatios on there in comparison to nonsense a lot of people spew on social media.

Anyway, I think people don't notice your change of opinions because your general opinion remains the same. The over the top criticism of BB, and all these digs and points to bring out to discredit him. And criticism if warranted is fine and dandy, but not when posters see right through the reason as to why that is.
 
SkiptoMyLou said:
I belong to several forums. I grew up on forums and actually prefer them to social media. For the most part I think more intelligent conversatios on there in comparison to nonsense a lot of people spew on social media.

Anyway, I think people don't notice your change of opinions because your general opinion remains the same. The over the top criticism of BB, and all these digs and points to bring out to discredit him. And criticism if warranted is fine and dandy, but not when posters see right through the reason as to why that is.
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I agree. There is nothing good on SM. I left all of that a long time ago. I enjoy forums much more as there are actual conversations and not just yelling and name calling.

To the bolded - this board is very unique in that Bill is worshipped here. No criticism of him is fine and dandy and is always met with an ulterior motive, i.e. Brady super fan, Pats hater/troll, etc. If you go over to other Pats forums, you will see a much more balanced view of him with fair criticism as he has made some head scratching roster and coaching decisions over the past several years. My comments on him here would be deemed positive on him on those forums. LOL

I do think people need to take a deep breath at times and just exhale slowly. It is only football. The world will not end if we don't sign Julio or if Mac ends up being a bust. Everything will be Ok.

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Mazz22 said:
As someone who scours websites for stats and such, I think you know very well that when doing stats to compare QBs, you try to compare players with similar careers. QBs with 100 starts or more are generally compared to each other as to take a QB with under 50 starts like Mayfield for example is not fair to either Mayfield or Newton.
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100 starts is nuts. That's more than six years. I never heard of any list of the best current starting QBs or any other player position with a cutoff of 100 starts. If you can't get an idea of the relative worth of QBs after three years, something is wrong. People seem to be able to come to a consensus as to which college QBs are first round pick worthy and none of them obviously had 100 starts

Cripes, by the 100 start cutoff, if Brady had torn his ACL and had his career end after 5-6 years, he might be a triple superbowl winning QB, but he wouldn't be good enough to be discussed in the same sentence as Cam Newton.

The fact is that simply put, Cam Newton has a better won-loss record than a number superbowl winning QBs and a number of current established starting QBs.

Also, calling a QB with a winning record terrible makes no sense. Yes, you can have the opinion, but it isn't logical. By definition, a QB with a winning record is at the very least above average.

Okay, here are points to consider about stance that he cannot do better next year. If it helps, don't think of this QB as Cam, just a QB:

This QB is signed by the team with the most complicated offense in the NFL in a year where there are no OTAs, no preseason games. He has good special teams but lousy weapons. His #1 receiver is lost for the year. His TEs are Matt LaCosse and RYan Izzo. The defense cannot stop the run. He has problems pick up the complicated defense.

Now he has had a year to learn the offense, he will have an off-season to practice plays. He has two new top TEs, two good WR receivers who are light years better than the two Nos. 4 and 5 who will be dropped to make room for them. He has the same defensive backfield as last year, but the run defense and pass rush is greatly improved.

And there is still no chance he will do better than last year? That's the amazing thing to me. He has no chance to do better?
 
Mazz22 said:
this board is very unique in that Bill is worshipped here. No criticism of him is fine and dandy and is always met with an ulterior motive, i.e. Brady super fan, Pats hater/troll, etc.
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I don't know of any fan who is afraid to criticize BB. Start a thread about second round safeties, or drafted WRs and watch the comments. See if criticizers are shouted down.

Some of us can criticize BB when called for and criticize Brady when called for. The reverse is not true. Brady superfans cannot tolerate any criticism of Brady.

For you and your two compatriots, BB was made by Brady and is a terrible HC. You might not like BB as a cold-hearted bottom line driven son of a bitch of a HC, but he has done the job for years. Perfect no, but neither is Brady.

IMO and the opinion of a lot of posters, our dynasty is the result of the perfect storm of GOAT head coach and GOAT QB.

Believe BB sucks if you want, but please don't say that criticism of BB is not tolerated. It is, as you or maybe STML said. criticism is tolerated when appropriate. As it stands now, there are plenty of reasons to criticize both Brady and BB, but they are minor in comparison to the HoF level job they have been doing.
 
Mazz22 said:
The guys with under 100 starts could all win SBs in the next 5 years or be out of the league. That's why you compare QBs with 100 starts to other QBs with 100 starts. The data is comparable. This is like stats 101.

It was your list. I was just going with the QBs you listed. You can add whoever you want. It still does not change that fact that Newtons has 3 winning seasons out of 10 and has awful mechanics due to his shoulder surgery. He is what he is. A washed QB that Bill is hanging on to because he is cheap.
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'
So, why would be best and smartest Football Coach in the history of the Multiiverse spend bazillions on free agency and then render all that spending useless by cheaping out on a QB?

He spent practically all the money he had. The same amount everybody else has. That is the same thing he's done almost every season except last.

You should think about finding a fresher, more plausible criticism. You're still beating the old slappies to death and it's sort of a bad look.

Even "the league has passed him by", as painfully stupid as it is, looks almost intelligent compared to "cheap".
 
Hawg73 said:
'
So, why would be best and smartest Football Coach in the history of the Multiiverse spend bazillions on free agency and then render all that spending useless by cheaping out on a QB?
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I think you need to understand that it was Bill the GM that decided to resign Cam. As I have stated before, one could argue signing Cam last year was one of Bill the GMs worst signings. That I can accept as everyone has bust FAs BUT Cam is the only bust FA that Bill resigned.

You may want to try to answer your own question as to why. I have no earthly idea as all we heard all off-season was how the Patriots were going to upgrade the QB position and that everyone agreed "anyone but Cam" would be a better alternative. But Bill doubled down on his worst FA signing at the QB position not just resigning Cam but also keeping Stidham and resigning Hoyer effectively keeping together the worst QB room in the league for a second season. For me, it is yet more evidence that he has truly lost it as a GM and needs to relinquish that role ASAP. I was happy to see Kraft bring in more personnel guys this year to help Bill build this team. FA and the draft were so drastically different precisely because it was a collaborative/group approach. That should pretty much tell you what Kraft thinks of Bill the GM currently.

I have also said this before and has bearing on this topic. Bill is a disciple of Parcells who could not stand diva QBs or diva WRs. Bill does not value the QB position like the other GMs do. He believes the QB is just a cog in his master plan. Of course, who can blame him as Brady was the perfect cog for so long being a 6th round pick and taking less money than his market value for the majority of his career while helping Bill win 6 chips. In short, Bill truly believes he can win with a broken down QB like Cam even though all the evidence points contrary. This is one of his biggest blind spots and why we are looking at another middler season if Cam stays the starter. He also does not believe in starting rookies even though QB prospects drafted as high as Jones on a team devoid of a decent QB always start week 1. I mean Lawrence will be under center week 1 for the Jags as well as Wilson for the Jets. There is zero reason to start Cam this year and not let Jones have this team right now. But again, Bill is stubborn and will not budge on his philosophy so here we are stuck with Cam. I just hope the other personnel people have some say as to when Jones will start and will have the ability to have their voice heard too so we can get back to contending.
 
Mazz22 said:
I think you need to understand that it was Bill the GM that decided to resign Cam. As I have stated before, one could argue signing Cam last year was one of Bill the GMs worst signings. That I can accept as everyone has bust FAs BUT Cam is the only bust FA that Bill resigned.

You may want to try to answer your own question as to why. I have no earthly idea as all we heard all off-season was how the Patriots were going to upgrade the QB position and that everyone agreed "anyone but Cam" would be a better alternative. But Bill doubled down on his worst FA signing at the QB position not just resigning Cam but also keeping Stidham and resigning Hoyer effectively keeping together the worst QB room in the league for a second season. For me, it is yet more evidence that he has truly lost it as a GM and needs to relinquish that role ASAP. I was happy to see Kraft bring in more personnel guys this year to help Bill build this team. FA and the draft were so drastically different precisely because it was a collaborative/group approach. That should pretty much tell you what Kraft thinks of Bill the GM currently.

I have also said this before and has bearing on this topic. Bill is a disciple of Parcells who could not stand diva QBs or diva WRs. Bill does not value the QB position like the other GMs do. He believes the QB is just a cog in his master plan. Of course, who can blame him as Brady was the perfect cog for so long being a 6th round pick and taking less money than his market value for the majority of his career while helping Bill win 6 chips. In short, Bill truly believes he can win with a broken down QB like Cam even though all the evidence points contrary. This is one of his biggest blind spots and why we are looking at another middler season if Cam stays the starter. He also does not believe in starting rookies even though QB prospects drafted as high as Jones on a team devoid of a decent QB always start week 1. I mean Lawrence will be under center week 1 for the Jags as well as Wilson for the Jets. There is zero reason to start Cam this year and not let Jones have this team right now. But again, Bill is stubborn and will not budge on his philosophy so here we are stuck with Cam. I just hope the other personnel people have some say as to when Jones will start and will have the ability to have their voice heard too so we can get back to contending.
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You're a slippery devil. I'll give you that much. I might have to start numbering your typical go-to points for brevity.

Let's start with "Cam is washed up" as one and "Bill is cheap" as two. What number should we assign to "Bill the GM (sucks)"?

Let's have a bracing round of arguments to decide.
 
Hawg73 said:
You're a slippery devil. I'll give you that much. I might have to start numbering your typical go-to points for brevity.

Let's start with "Cam is washed up" as one and "Bill is cheap" as two. What number should we assign to "Bill the GM (sucks)"?

Let's have a bracing round of arguments to decide.
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Lol. I like slippery devil. :devilish:
 
Hawg73 said:
'
So, why would be best and smartest Football Coach in the history of the Multiiverse spend bazillions on free agency and then render all that spending useless by cheaping out on a QB?

He spent practically all the money he had. The same amount everybody else has. That is the same thing he's done almost every season except last.

You should think about finding a fresher, more plausible criticism. You're still beating the old slappies to death and it's sort of a bad look.

Even "the league has passed him by", as painfully stupid as it is, looks almost intelligent compared to "cheap".
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Bingo. Bill spends as do the rest.

From a very different and historically successful business plan.
 
The answer is that Bill is not the smartest football coach in the history of the multiverse.
 
It's really interesting, and fascinating, to read the posts from The Tiresome Threesome. In all my years of Patriots fandom on 3 message boards, I've never encountered any trio who consistently present as phony, disingenuous and intentionally dishonest as they are. It really is a clown show joke. The truth is they hate the Patriots (as currently constructed) and desperately and genuinely want them to fail.
 
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