Looking At The Patriots 2022

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SkiptoMyLou said:
I'm not disputing that, but Mac didn't take care of the ball early on in the season. That was my whole point.
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I agree and the stats bear that out. Where we disagree (I think) is why. Mac was running for his life trying to succeed with plays destined to fail. That will result in ANY QB making mistakes. Better play calling is the big change (at least last game) more than Mac changing, IMO. :)
 
aloyouis said:
What part of what Hasslebeck said do you believe applies to Mac? All of it? Some?

Because I don't see it.

80%+ of the issues Mac has had to overcome this season are on the coaching staff and O-line (also a coaching issue). Maybe more. I give him tremendous credit for being a pro while being sent to slaughter by Patricia and the Oline game after game. Even when Patricia saw with his own eyes what he needed to run while Zappe was in he refused when Mac was in. He has ever so s-l-o-w-l-y changed his play calling and while it still stinks, it is better (not RZ) and you saw what Mac did on Thanksgiving as a result.

I think what Hasslebeck outlined does not apply to Mac except to highlight just how mature Mac has been this year. He is 23. 7th year guys would have folded like a tent if forced into the Pats offensive situation this year, IMO. It is the biggest folly of Belichick's GOAT career.

But, as I am too fond of saying (wife hates it): That is why they make chocolate and vanilla. Thanks for posting that and making me think, briefly, about something more fun than Monday morning European bullshit (work).
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Turnovers. Vertical passes to Parker. Mac had to rethink that stuff.
 
chevss454 said:
Turnovers. Vertical passes to Parker. Mac had to rethink that stuff.
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Yes, those happened. I guess we disagree on why. I don't think Mac decided to throw this verticals to Parker on his own or in defiance of the coaching direction. I think he was doing what Patricia wanted him to do.

He had a couple of glaring interceptions, I agree. That happens when a QB (any) is trying to succeed in a poorly designed offense. Not to mention when the defense knows the plays.

And I am a chocolate guy.
 
aloyouis said:
Yes, those happened. I guess we disagree on why. I don't think Mac decided to throw this verticals to Parker on his own or in defiance of the coaching direction. I think he was doing what Patricia wanted him to do.

He had a couple of glaring interceptions, I agree. That happens when a QB (any) is trying to succeed in a poorly designed offense. Not to mention when the defense knows the plays.

And I am a chocolate guy.
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Mac had 2 TDs and 5 ints his first 3 games. Then he rested for a month with time to reflect on Zappe's 1st 3 games with 4 TDs and 1 int then saw devastation vs the Bears when Mac had 1 int & Zappe had 2 more ints which led to a 33-14 loss.
Since then in 4 games Mac has had 4 TDs and 1 int, the pats are 3-1 (should be 4-0 with the refs in the Vikings game) & more significantly Mac had 0 ints in his last 3 games.

One might say it's play calling but one might also say he learned his lesson about his turnovers leading to losses when he witnessed Zappe's wins with few turnovers.
 
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chevss454 said:
Mac had 2 TDs and 5 ints his first 3 games. Then he rested for a month with time to reflect on Zappe's 1st 3 games with 4 TDs and 1 int then saw devastation vs the Bears when Mac had 1 int & Zappe had 2 more ints which led to a 33-14 loss.
Since then in 4 games Mac has had 4 TDs and 1 int, the pats are 3-1 (should be 4-0 with the refs in the Vikings game) & more significantly Mac had 0 ints in his last 3 games.

One might say it's play calling but one might also say he learned his lesson about his turnovers leading to losses when he witnessed Zappe's wins with few turnovers.
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It could be either or both.

But since the thing we can see with our own eyes is the change in the play calling (rather than "seeing" that Mac learned his lesson) I will go with that.

Mac did great last year with less than great (but okay) play calling. He did great with less than great (but okay) play calling last game.

In between he had to try to run a horrible HS level offense with LB's calling out the obvious plays.

I am gonna go with Matt Patricia seems to be learning HIS lesson. Just not in the RZ.
 
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aloyouis said:
It could be either or both.

But since the thing we can see with our own eyes is the change in the play calling (rather than "seeing" that Mac learned his lesson) I will go with that.

Mac did great last year with less than great (but okay) play calling. He did great with less than great (but okay) play calling last game.

In between he had to try to run a horrible HS level offense with LB's calling out the obvious plays.

I am gonna go with Matt Patricia seems to be learning HIS lesson.
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So you think Patricia was mind controlling Mac to throw those ints? That's your prerogative.
To me there's a difference in a long well-placed pass vs a prayer.
 
chevss454 said:
So you think Patricia was mind controlling Mac to throw those ints? That's your prerogative.
To me there's a difference in a long well-placed pass vs a prayer.
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No. But no QB will play well in the offense Patricia was calling that the opposing defenses were calling out at the line of scrimmage.

If Patricia continues to learn his lesson then the QB play/stats will be better.
 
aloyouis said:
It could be either or both.

But since the thing we can see with our own eyes is the change in the play calling (rather than "seeing" that Mac learned his lesson) I will go with that.

Mac did great last year with less than great (but okay) play calling. He did great with less than great (but okay) play calling last game.

In between he had to try to run a horrible HS level offense with LB's calling out the obvious plays.

I am gonna go with Matt Patricia seems to be learning HIS lesson. Just not in the RZ.
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Right, it's certainly not that Patricia has had to re-tailor the offense because Jones couldn't stop throwing to the other team. I've got three games worth of Bailey Zappe which tells me maybe, maybe, it's not 100% Patricia's fault.
 
TommyD420 said:
Right, it's certainly not that Patricia has had to re-tailor the offense because Jones couldn't stop throwing to the other team. I've got three games worth of Bailey Zappe which tells me maybe, maybe, it's not 100% Patricia's fault.
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Did Patricia call the same game for Zappe as he did for Mac?

Not even close.
 
aloyouis said:
Did Patricia call the same game for Zappe as he did for Mac?

Not even close.
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I am sure Patricia does not have a throw interception play call. Or at least I hope so. No matter the play call or the O line woes, Mac threw those interceptions. There is no alternate reality. He could have thrown the ball away each time. And some of those Ints were right to a defender. Mac has done some self scouting I guess and fixed some things. I am hesitant to give him too much credit for the Minn game because they had a very thin secondary.
 
I am done on this topic.

Let's just see if Patricia's slow trend to 6-7 man pass pro, 3 step drops, increased play action, less obvious run/pass etc. aligns with Mac's trends towards improved stat lines. If it does we will know what the issue has been.

Hell, I am not confident enough of Patricia to say with certainty that he will continue this trend, but let's wait and see if he does what happens.

Circle back in 6 weeks.
 
PumpDee said:
We're not friends anymore. :harumph:
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One of my many flaws is that when I think of a one-liner, even if it's in poor taste, I can't help but use it.

I actually love Rhode Island, cross the border often and consider it, pound-for-pound, the best State in the Country. True story.
 
aloyouis said:
I am done on this topic.

Let's just see if Patricia's slow trend to 6-7 man pass pro, 3 step drops, increased play action, less obvious run/pass etc. aligns with Mac's trends towards improved stat lines. If it does we will know what the issue has been.

Hell, I am not confident enough of Patricia to say with certainty that he will continue this trend, but let's wait and see if he does what happens.

Circle back in 6 weeks.
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Let's keep in mind that you had a problem with McDaniels, who is by far a better OC than Patricia.

Maybe just maybe there's some bias? I'm not going to sit here and say I don't criticize because as a fan I've done my fair share.

That said, I don't get paid to watch football, but they do get paid to coach. Maybe there is a method to their madness. Maybe there are some things that as fans we won't get to know or understand without actually being in those meetings.

That to me could be the situation here. We can trash Patricia all we want, and I fully know he's not the best OC by a long shot. But I'm also willing to concede that I won't know even a small percentage of football than Patricia or any other coach does, so it's hard for me to nitpick every single decision that is made regarding the offense. If BB is signing off on it, I'd like to think it's not nearly as inept as it might appear.
 
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