Looking at the Patriots 2023

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Prometheus 441

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I know it's an early start for this thread BUT , there is so many interesting things to discuss for our new season and the 2022 thread is basically revolving around 2023 anyway.So with apologies , I present " Looking at the Patriots 2023 ".The question on the table is where to begin ?.The logical answer to me is coaching , this is coaching season after all.Soon teams will be sloughing off their " dead weight " coaches ( brilliant move Denver ) and the time to buy is now.So who is a good choice for OC ?.Does BB stick to his guns and try to teach Patty new tricks to avoid admitting he made a huge mistake ?.When is it too soon to shop for new talent (WR ,TE ,CB ,etc.) or do we wait for the draft and hope for a diamond in the rough ?.Do we hold onto Zappe just in case or trade him off ,and if we trade him then what's his market value ( 2nd round ,1st round pick ) ?.It's going to be an interesting , exciting and at times frustrating season and I can't to talk with you all about it.
 
I love that the embedded assumption is that if Belichick brings back Patricia, it's because he's trying to avoid admitting he made a mistake. That's not just saying it was definitely a mistake, but also that he agrees that it was a mistake and doesn't see or know anything that we don't.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
I love that the embedded assumption is that if Belichick brings back Patricia, it's because he's trying to avoid admitting he made a mistake. That's not just saying it was definitely a mistake, but also that he agrees that it was a mistake and doesn't see or know anything that we don't.
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Another poster who watches ESPN and Comcast Sports a few nights a week and therefore knows more about football than the guys who've coached it for decades. "I don't understand what he is doing therefore what he is doing makes no sense." Probably is pretty good at playing checkers, though.

But at least the OP has a brilliant plan to get the Pats back on their feet: Trade Zappe for a 1st round pick. :rolleyes:

Hopefully someone will start a legitimate 2023 Patriots thread.
 
spacecrime said:
Another poster who watches ESPN and Comcast Sports a few nights a week and therefore knows more about football than the guys who've coached it for decades. "I don't understand what he is doing therefore what he is doing makes no sense." Probably is pretty good at playing checkers, though.

But at least the OP has a brilliant plan to get the Pats back on their feet: Trade Zappe for a 1st round pick. :rolleyes:

Hopefully someone will start a legitimate 2023 Patriots thread.
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Well Einstien , firstly , find anyone in the NFL world who thinks making Matt Patrica the OC was a brilliant move.Secondly , if you have a talented 2nd string QB with market value , it's bad business sense to use him to warm the bench.Thus Jimmy G would probably still be here.Thirdly , I never said that trading Zappe was a good move or not , just asked for opinions on the matter. Fnally , attacking a member who starts a thread because you don't agree with their comments is low class.Maybe you should look in the mirror for a true example of lack of understanding.
 
Prometheus 441 said:
Well Einstien , firstly , find anyone in the NFL world who thinks making Matt Patrica the OC was a brilliant move.Secondly , if you have a talented 2nd string QB with market value , it's bad business sense to use him to warm the bench.Thus Jimmy G would probably still be here.Thirdly , I never said that trading Zappe was a good move or not , just asked for opinions on the matter. Fnally , attacking a member who starts a thread because you don't agree with their comments is low class.Maybe you should look in the mirror for a true example of lack of understanding.
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If you could get a first round pick for Bailey Zappe, you'd do it yesterday, because he's not a starting QB.

Hell, if you could get a 3rd round pick for him, you'd do it.
 
Prometheus 441 said:
Well Einstien , firstly , find anyone in the NFL world who thinks making Matt Patrica the OC was a brilliant move.Secondly , if you have a talented 2nd string QB with market value , it's bad business sense to use him to warm the bench.Thus Jimmy G would probably still be here.Thirdly , I never said that trading Zappe was a good move or not , just asked for opinions on the matter. Fnally , attacking a member who starts a thread because you don't agree with their comments is low class.Maybe you should look in the mirror for a true example of lack of understanding.
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He's not Einstein, I am. Zap would never bring a 1st, 2nd, or even a 3rd in a trade. I'd love to think that there is a GM out there that would give us anything higher than a 4th or 5th for Zap.
As we have seen with many teams, having a viable backup at QB is important. It wouldn't be smart for a team to trade a viable backup QB, even if he warms the bench. Also a good backup would run the scout team which makes him valuable even if he never gets into a regular game.
 
Prometheus 441 said:
I know it's an early start for this thread BUT , there is so many interesting things to discuss for our new season and the 2022 thread is basically revolving around 2023 anyway.So with apologies , I present " Looking at the Patriots 2023 ".The question on the table is where to begin ?.The logical answer to me is coaching , this is coaching season after all.Soon teams will be sloughing off their " dead weight " coaches ( brilliant move Denver ) and the time to buy is now.So who is a good choice for OC ?.Does BB stick to his guns and try to teach Patty new tricks to avoid admitting he made a huge mistake ?.When is it too soon to shop for new talent (WR ,TE ,CB ,etc.) or do we wait for the draft and hope for a diamond in the rough ?.Do we hold onto Zappe just in case or trade him off ,and if we trade him then what's his market value ( 2nd round ,1st round pick ) ?.It's going to be an interesting , exciting and at times frustrating season and I can't to talk with you all about it.
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We've been discussing an OC change with possible replacements for several weeks already and have at least 2 threads on subject.

Interesting that you left off our most obvious position need - OT. Two of them would be nice as a matter of fact.

As for "When is it too soon to shop for new talent" there are 2 parts to this question.
1. Pro personnel scouting never stops. It's continuous 24/7/365. College scouting is also continuous with special emphasis for those eligible beginning at the start of each college season. Browsing the wares to identify targets never stops.
2. Tuesday, February 21, '23 marks the beginning of the franchise and transition tag window (shopping for your own guys), which will end on Tuesday, March 7. The Free Agent signing period begins at 4 PM, Wednesday, March 15 with a legal tampering period beginning 52 hours earlier at noon Monday, March 13. The draft will run from Thursday, April 27, through Saturday, April 29, in Kansas City. Hope that answers your question.

We hold on to Zappe unless we unexpectedly sign a starter over Mac and Mac becomes a backup. Rumors involve Brady and JimmyG. I don't believe the rumors, fyi.
 
spacecrime said:
Another poster who watches ESPN and Comcast Sports a few nights a week and therefore knows more about football than the guys who've coached it for decades. "I don't understand what he is doing therefore what he is doing makes no sense." Probably is pretty good at playing checkers, though.

But at least the OP has a brilliant plan to get the Pats back on their feet: Trade Zappe for a 1st round pick. :rolleyes:

Hopefully someone will start a legitimate 2023 Patriots thread.
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Unnecessarily harsh.
 
TommyD420 said:
If you could get a first round pick for Bailey Zappe, you'd do it yesterday, because he's not a starting QB.

Hell, if you could get a 3rd round pick for him, you'd do it.
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With what Zappe put on tape this year, Bill could get a 5th I would think. Maybe a 4 from a desperate team.
 
chevss454 said:
We've been discussing an OC change with possible replacements for several weeks already and have at least 2 threads on subject.

Interesting that you left off our most obvious position need - OT. Two of them would be nice as a matter of fact.

As for "When is it too soon to shop for new talent" there are 2 parts to this question.
1. Pro personnel scouting never stops. It's continuous 24/7/365. College scouting is also continuous with special emphasis for those eligible beginning at the start of each college season. Browsing the wares to identify targets never stops.
2. Tuesday, February 21, '23 marks the beginning of the franchise and transition tag window (shopping for your own guys), which will end on Tuesday, March 7. The Free Agent signing period begins at 4 PM, Wednesday, March 15 with a legal tampering period beginning 52 hours earlier at noon Monday, March 13. The draft will run from Thursday, April 27, through Saturday, April 29, in Kansas City. Hope that answers your question.

We hold on to Zappe unless we unexpectedly sign a starter over Mac and Mac becomes a backup. Rumors involve Brady and JimmyG. I don't believe the rumors, fyi.
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Either Brady or Jimmy would make for fantastic theater. Lol
 
Since there's draft talk here, gonna drop this.
When Zappe was drafted, thought that was weird. Isn't that going to set up a weird dynamic between the two QBs? Why not sign a free agent QB to replace Hoyer. I think it got weirder than I imagined and beyond anything Belichick thought would happen.
BB drafted Zappe for several reasons , replace Hoyer , exert the Garappollo force (verb) onto Mac, it worked for TB, we the Pats can coach up Zappe to be a good player and may have some value down the road. Most of those aspects provides leverages for the coaching staff.

Except it got all turned around. Zappe played well enough to have fans chanting his name when Mac was on the field. There's been minimal support for Mac from BB, all year he's never named Mac the starter like he did with Cam. A number of core players were/ are unhappy with how Mac never got that support. This is Bill applying the Garappollo.
The lack of support continues. Therefore it's ok for the players to openly wave off the coaches because the players are not ok with what's going on. And the coaches let the players run the asylum.
 
Prometheus 441 said:
Well Einstien , firstly , find anyone in the NFL world who thinks making Matt Patrica the OC was a brilliant move.Secondly , if you have a talented 2nd string QB with market value , it's bad business sense to use him to warm the bench.Thus Jimmy G would probably still be here.Thirdly , I never said that trading Zappe was a good move or not , just asked for opinions on the matter. Fnally , attacking a member who starts a thread because you don't agree with their comments is low class.Maybe you should look in the mirror for a true example of lack of understanding.
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Welcome back.

Have dearly missed the complete open net slapshots at the ignorance of anyone who disagrees with you.

Do you get the image of an open net slapshot?

Truly and honestly, a warm and heartfelt welcome back. ♥

This post is only fully activated with the listening and feeling of the following.

♥


View: https://youtu.be/Mmm3KTa601s
 
John Locke said:
Welcome back.

Have dearly missed the complete open net slapshots at the ignorance of anyone who disagrees with you.

Do you get the image of an open net slapshot?

Truly and honestly, a warm and heartfelt welcome back. ♥

This post is only fully activated with the listening and feeling of the following.

♥


View: https://youtu.be/Mmm3KTa601s
Click to expand...

Did you even read the whole thread John ?🤔.I was'nt slap shotting anyone just tending goal.
 
So, the 2023 core on offense:
  • Mac
  • Mondre
  • Onwenu
  • Andrews
  • Henry
  • Myers (hopefully)
And on defense:
  • Judon
  • Barmore
  • Dugger
  • Uche
  • Jack Jones
  • Marcus Jones
  • Jonathan Jones (hopefully)
  • Phillips
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
So, the 2023 core on offense:
  • Mac
  • Mondre
  • Onwenu
  • Andrews
  • Henry
  • Myers (hopefully)
And on defense:
  • Judon
  • Barmore
  • Dugger
  • Uche
  • Jack Jones
  • Marcus Jones
  • Jonathan Jones (hopefully)
  • Phillips
Click to expand...

While I can't be sure what you mean by "core" I think you missed a few.

Wise and Bentley, for instance. Both are signed and had, by far, their best seasons. I know that because both have
been regular targets for me during their gradual ascent to being plus players, but....Bill was right about both.

We have a few big holes to fill, but I believe that 2022 demonstrated that we successfully rebuilt the Dbackfield and Linebacking corps
without breaking the bank and sprinkled in several talented rookies who should logically ascend. Personnel-wise we're better than we
were last offseason by a significant margin. The big Safety stockup seemed to work quite well overall and will likely be influential to
other teams.

The coaching thing doesn't worry me. I trust it will be adequately addressed because it has to be and isn't dependent on the cap, which
will allow us to sign some top guys. I advocate making Jerod Mayo a very well-paid assistant coach and hope like hell we can hang on
to him. I'd give him the DC title now if that'd work, but I know the King has an heir. I hope we can find a way to keep it going with
both Jerod and Stevie B. because the D appeared very well-coached in contrast to the other two phases. I don't know who does what
but I know what I saw and that was high-level coordination.

We know we need to retool the OL with two starting Tackles that can both play and pay attention and to add at least one bigtime WR,
probably more. We should find a Safety who can take over DMac's responsibilities now/soon. We'll stick with Mac Jonesand hope he can
be the guy we thought because he is our best option, although that'll be a subject of much debate. We could use a corner with size to
reshuffle everybody else into roles which will fit them even better and they were pretty good as it was. The Defensive forecast for 2023
is for high pressure, torrential 3 and outs and scattered zeros.

The season was a mess, but I think that we are in much better shape talent-wise than is commonly believed and we're in very good
position to add more, unlike last off-season.

Why should I think we can't fix the passing game by next September? I'm sure that'll be Bill's prime focus and I'm still on board
with him on the tiller.
 
Of course the Patricia thing was a colossal blunder and I fully expect it to be rectified before 2023. BB was wrong, everyone knows it, but even Kraft is complicit for wanting to find a way to help a good soldier and it backfired. They'll fix it.

I am the most optimistic for the 2023 season that I have been since Brady's departure. I am not expecting a Super Bowl but they have decent core talent and some young players who should continue to improve. There is also a ton of money coming off the books but of course, that will require replacing some of those pieces as well. I don't think I'd feel confident enough to place a wager on which of those FA's will be returning in 2023, either.

Gotta start with who may be walking out that door. Here is a list of all of the impending Patriots free agents (sorted by their 2022 salaries).

McCourty and Slater may retire.

Agholor, Meyers, Wynn, and Jonathan Jones (who may command more than what all of them made combined in 2022 on the market) are all UFA's.

Damien Harris is also an UFA and almost certainly gone. I will miss his production for his 2022 value ($900K) as part of a solid 2-headed monster, but there are too many areas of need to offer him what he will need (they also have serviceable #2 backs on the roster and could look to upgrade in the draft)

The O-Line is a mess and both T positions need to be addressed. Perhaps moving Brown to RT is part of that plan but either way, I think this is where they need to improve the most over 2022.

Smaller pieces to their secondary like Peppers, Davis and Bryant (who is the only restricted FA) expose potential lack of depth of they all leave and McCourty retires. IMO, all are replaceable but the Jon Jones departure implies this is an area they'll likely be heavily focused on in the draft (of course, their track record for turning undrafted CB's into Pro Bowlers can't be overlooked)

They also may be looking to move on from their current K and P, as they've gotten less-than-stellar production out of those positions. The Henry and Smith signings have also not panned out and while Henry's stood out among the two, Smith's cap hit is way to steep to consider cutting him before the following off-season. He restructured earlier this year so let's see what is in the cards this season. I'm not familiar with the draft depth at the TE position but wouldn't shock me to see them draft one if they see the value in a TE at a particular spot in the draft - if even to groom for a year before they can reset on Smith.

So while the money they'll have is nice, they still have a pretty good challenge in front of them between the draft, free agency and finding replacement parts.

And my last $0.02: I don't think this thread should go down the rabbit hole of discussing the QB position as it is already being debated ad nauseum elsewhere around the board and there is nothing more than gossip column rumors and shock jock editorial opinions that would imply anyone other than Mac Jones will be the Patriots QB in 2023.
 
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chevss454 said:
Spotrac.com projects Jakobi Meyers' next deal to land somewhere around $12.5 million per year. Pay the man. He's been our best WR for 2 years.
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I'd pay him that at the very top end on a 4 year deal max.

Anything more than that, good luck elsewhere.
 
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