Looking at the Patriots 2023

I recently heard (from someone who could theoretically know, but who knows) that the kid is a film rat and perfectionist. That personality type where every individual lost battle is fuel for improvement and motivation. The exact wording concluded with something like "it's like he ate Tom Brady, swelled up to north of 3 bills, and Tom took over control of his feedback loops and rewards center driving his attitude towards preparation and improvement." FWIW. Could be totally made up, but it'd be weird to do that and oddly specific.

cool story
But what was his PFF score or any other metric
If it doesn’t translate on the field then it doesn’t matter. He basically has to become Joe Thuney for it to be a push/wash to spend a 1st on a guard.
Right now Jack Jones saved that draft, going Strange+Thornton so high doesn’t look too good after 1 year
 
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cool story
But what was his PFF score or any other metric
If it doesn’t translate on the field then it doesn’t matter. He basically has to become Joe Thuney for it to be a push/wash to spend a 1st on a guard.
Right now Jack Jones saved that draft, going Strange+Thornton so high doesn’t too good after 1 year
Um, Marcus Jones? Zappe? Both RBs producing even though they're buried?

But to the main point, look at what I quoted - it absolutely translated on the field, improving as the year went on.
 
I don't want to get excited this early, but I like the sense of urgency to make some necessary changes.

Now......find an OC that we and more importantly the players can believe in.
I hope this isn't just lip service to just calm the fans and by the end of next week we see Bill just promote someone in house to O coordinator. That wouldn't be a great sign in two ways, first it would be a pretty telling sign that Bill doesn't really feel like his offensive plans this year were a disaster. Second, if there really was someone in house that could run the offense, then why in the he'll would he have put Patricia and Judge in the mix this year at all???
 
The whole Patricia - Judge thing is just weird. sounded weird last summer and proved to weird during the season. in this case weird = bad idea.
lets hope they get a real OC and O-Line coach, put judge on ST and Patricia.... who cares. I didn't like his D and really didn't like his O, and Detroit showed he isn't an HC, so I don't know what the hell to do with him. you know no team is going to steal him away, that's for sure.
 
cool story
But what was his PFF score or any other metric
If it doesn’t translate on the field then it doesn’t matter. He basically has to become Joe Thuney for it to be a push/wash to spend a 1st on a guard.
Right now Jack Jones saved that draft, going Strange+Thornton so high doesn’t too good after 1 year

Strange was a great pick. All signs point to very good if not great career for him. The experts agree.

To use your own language: You don't have clue what you talking about on this subject. You are no expert.
 
The whole Patricia - Judge thing is just weird. sounded weird last summer and proved to weird during the season. in this case weird = bad idea.
lets hope they get a real OC and O-Line coach, put judge on ST and Patricia.... who cares. I didn't like his D and really didn't like his O, and Detroit showed he isn't an HC, so I don't know what the hell to do with him. you know no team is going to steal him away, that's for sure.
I wouldn't dismiss Patricia's value at contributing on defense. Although I wasn't a fan of the bend but don't break philosophy, it's hard to say if that was solely his approach or a byproduct of the talent at the time. I'm all for giving Mayo the role of Defensive Coordinator fully, and let him assign the coaching roles on that side of the ball as he sees fit. Offense is the worry, we need coaching and some pieces and this could be an entirely different team next season.
 
Strange was a great pick. All signs point to very good if not great career for him. The experts agree.

To use your own language: You don't have clue what you talking about on this subject. You are no expert.
I don't know how you can be so confident here. Strange was benched 3 times this year, that's in no way a home run pick, and even when he was on the field he was never more than just a guy. Hardly what you are looking for in a 1st round guard.
 
I don't know how you can be so confident here. Strange was benched 3 times this year, that's in no way a home run pick, and even when he was on the field he was never more than just a guy. Hardly what you are looking for in a 1st round guard.
I can be this confident because it’s not just me. Virtually every expert that watched him the season sees a potentially great lineman for the Patriots.

I can be this confident because I’m willing to believe what I see with my eyes and read with my eyes rather than trying to fit an early prediction into a currently (and obviously) false outcome.

The kid is very good and barring injury will only get better.
 
I don't know how you can be so confident here. Strange was benched 3 times this year, that's in no way a home run pick, and even when he was on the field he was never more than just a guy. Hardly what you are looking for in a 1st round guard.

agree
even in the clip linked, like half the plays you can see they helped him with a double team via Trent or Andrews or Harris. Not convincing that an up and down guard was worth a 1st and also letting Thuney, Mason, and Karras all go (all 3 still in the playoffs)
 
agree
even in the clip linked, like half the plays you can see they helped him with a double team via Trent or Andrews or Harris. Not convincing that an up and down guard was worth a 1st and also letting Thuney, Mason, and Karras all go (all 3 still in the playoffs)

Well, please let Belichick know this. He needs to cut bait on Strange quickly. Send him your recommendations for better FA IOL signings so we can improve immediately.

Also, do you have any thoughts on the TE's or the scouting department from 4 years ago that you can share?
 
I can be this confident because it’s not just me. Virtually every expert that watched him the season sees a potentially great lineman for the Patriots.

I can be this confident because I’m willing to believe what I see with my eyes and read with my eyes rather than trying to fit an early prediction into a currently (and obviously) false outcome.

The kid is very good and barring injury will only get better.
Not saying he won't, but I saw and heard all those same experts you're talking about say the same things about Harry going into year two also. Mankins was a beast from day one, Thuney was also.n
Count your eggs if you like, I hope your right.
 
Well, please let Belichick know this. He needs to cut bait on Strange quickly. Send him your recommendations for better FA IOL signings so we can improve immediately.

Also, do you have any thoughts on the TE's or the scouting department from 4 years ago that you can share?
It really threatens you when others have different opinions than you. Its a shame because I find you to be a pretty intelligent and insightful poster but your lack of tollorence of differing views hurts the dialog.
 
Well, please let Belichick know this. He needs to cut bait on Strange quickly. Send him your recommendations for better FA IOL signings so we can improve immediately.

Also, do you have any thoughts on the TE's or the scouting department from 4 years ago that you can share?

Perfect. 👌

Yeah, let's bitch about letting high priced good players go for huge paydays, then let's bitch about young low cost draftees who look like they may be every bit as good, after bitching about drafting and scream about needing to go insane over high priced free agents.

Have these folks not even had the ability to pay attention to Bill's brilliant economics on building a consistently good team with a shot for it all for over 20 years?

How many times have pearls been clutched, hearts broken 💔 as Bill ditched the heavy cash and good talent for less expensive and younger talent that kept the winning going when other teams crash and burn in 3 years?

Anyone ever pay any attention to how few of those players Bill cut loose lived anywhere close to up the the huge paydays?
 
I don't know how you can be so confident here. Strange was benched 3 times this year, that's in no way a home run pick, and even when he was on the field he was never more than just a guy. Hardly what you are looking for in a 1st round guard.

Hardly any rookie Guards, 1st rounders included, walk into the NFL and are great right away. I can think of Zack Martin and Quentin Nelson and then you have to really
scratch your head. Those guys were the exception, not the rule.

John Hannah wasn't great as a rookie. He was always very strong, very tough and amazingly agile, but he literally didn't know how to pass block worth a damn and
played out of a 4-point stance at Alabama. He was raw as hell. You know what happened during, say, his 3rd season where he started dominating. The GOAT.
And, yes, people initially said that he sucked and then he shut everybody up.

Strange is extremely quick and has fluid agility. He's fiesty and competitive and already excellent at hitting moving targets on the run. He has a natural ability to turn defenders
and screen them from the ball with his body, which sounds simple, but isn't commonly done that well. He showed what I would call good awareness of what he was supposed to
be doing right from his early snaps, especially considering that he was from a small program, but, yes, there were times where stunts got screwed up and rushers went free, particularly when Andrews was out of the lineup. There were a few pre-snap flags and holding calls, but not a ton. Again, he was a rookie and he wasn't the only OL to struggle with stunts or bull rushes.

He's got precise, lightning-quick feet and his hand and arm usage were better than a lot of kids from more advanced programs. It'll get better still. He can mirror in pass pro, but has gotten beat from over-setting to a fake and all of that is just part of the price of starting a rookie. It takes a while, but it won't take him nearly as long as it took Shaq Mason. Thuney didn't play great until his 3rd season. Strange was better in his 1st season than Thuney was through his 2nd, and everybody said he was a bust, too. How does that assessment look now? Thuney is all-pro. I'd call them
similar prospects, but Strange has a better frame.

When we saw a quick-hitter by Harris or Mondre go up the middle for 15 yards it was often behind a textbook eye-blink-quick kickout trap by Cole. He did that dozens of times and
will do it hundreds more as we find creative ways to utilize that special mobility and speed. The overall athleticism that few OLs have.

He has a few clear deficiencies to address, such as that he needs to add about 15 pounds of muscle mass to anchor better against the beasts and help his drive blocking and also more experience in handling 'veteran NFL pass rush moves. That is about the size of it. Manageable areas to improve upon. Strange said that there was no nutrition program at Chattanooga and he has never been in a full off-season strength training program as he will get to experience now. He'll likely look a lot different when camp opens.

The reason we drafted him so high is that he can do things that other Guards can't and the rest will come soon enough.

I'm really not trying to lecture anyone here, but I'm getting really tired of reading stuff like he was a waste of a 1st-round pick. Be skeptical all you want, but you shouldn't be surprised when he
impresses those same critics and you don't want to be the last one to get on board.
 
Perfect. 👌

Yeah, let's bitch about letting high priced good players go for huge paydays, then let's bitch about young low cost draftees who look like they may be every bit as good, after bitching about drafting and scream about needing to go insane over high priced free agents.

Have these folks not even had the ability to pay attention to Bill's brilliant economics on building a consistently good team with a shot for it all for over 20 years?

How many times have pearls been clutched, hearts broken 💔 as Bill ditched the heavy cash and good talent for less expensive and younger talent that kept the winning going when other teams crash and burn in 3 years?

Anyone ever pay any attention to how few of those players Bill cut loose lived anywhere close to up the the huge paydays?
Don't think I will never understand the BB method of roster culling, he's like a surgeon with a chainsaw most times.
 
Hardly any rookie Guards, 1st rounders included, walk into the NFL and are great right away. I can think of Zack Martin and Quentin Nelson and then you have to really
scratch your head. Those guys were the exception, not the rule.

John Hannah wasn't great as a rookie. He was always very strong, very tough and amazingly agile, but he literally didn't know how to pass block worth a damn and
played out of a 4-point stance at Alabama. He was raw as hell. You know what happened during, say, his 3rd season where he started dominating. The GOAT.
And, yes, people initially said that he sucked and then he shut everybody up.

Strange is extremely quick and has fluid agility. He's fiesty and competitive and already excellent at hitting moving targets on the run. He has a natural ability to turn defenders
and screen them from the ball with his body, which sounds simple, but isn't commonly done that well. He showed what I would call good awareness of what he was supposed to
be doing right from his early snaps, especially considering that he was from a small program, but, yes, there were times where stunts got screwed up and rushers went free, particularly when Andrews was out of the lineup. There were a few pre-snap flags and holding calls, but not a ton. Again, he was a rookie and he wasn't the only OL to struggle with stunts or bull rushes.

He's got precise, lightning-quick feet and his hand and arm usage were better than a lot of kids from more advanced programs. It'll get better still. He can mirror in pass pro, but has gotten beat from over-setting to a fake and all of that is just part of the price of starting a rookie. It takes a while, but it won't take him nearly as long as it took Shaq Mason. Thuney didn't play great until his 3rd season. Strange was better in his 1st season than Thuney was through his 2nd, and everybody said he was a bust, too. How does that assessment look now? Thuney is all-pro. I'd call them
similar prospects, but Strange has a better frame.

When we saw a quick-hitter by Harris or Mondre go up the middle for 15 yards it was often behind a textbook eye-blink-quick kickout trap by Cole. He did that dozens of times and
will do it hundreds more as we find creative ways to utilize that special mobility and speed. The overall athleticism that few OLs have.

He has a few clear deficiencies to address, such as that he needs to add about 15 pounds of muscle mass to anchor better against the beasts and help his drive blocking and also more experience in handling 'veteran NFL pass rush moves. That is about the size of it. Manageable areas to improve upon. Strange said that there was no nutrition program at Chattanooga and he has never been in a full off-season strength training program as he will get to experience now. He'll likely look a lot different when camp opens.

The reason we drafted him so high is that he can do things that other Guards can't and the rest will come soon enough.

I'm really not trying to lecture anyone here, but I'm getting really tired of reading stuff like he was a waste of a 1st-round pick. Be skeptical all you want, but you shouldn't be surprised when he
impresses those same critics and you don't want to be the last one to get on board.
Great post. It's really ridiculous the way people expect a guy to come in as a rookie with a very challenging and tough position like OG and expect him to be an all-pro straight away. These things always take time.

This is where we do miss Scar in a big way, as he could coach these guys up quicker than any other coach. But it still took seasons for them to get up to full speed.
 
Hardly any rookie Guards, 1st rounders included, walk into the NFL and are great right away. I can think of Zack Martin and Quentin Nelson and then you have to really
scratch your head. Those guys were the exception, not the rule.

John Hannah wasn't great as a rookie. He was always very strong, very tough and amazingly agile, but he literally didn't know how to pass block worth a damn and
played out of a 4-point stance at Alabama. He was raw as hell. You know what happened during, say, his 3rd season where he started dominating. The GOAT.
And, yes, people initially said that he sucked and then he shut everybody up.

Strange is extremely quick and has fluid agility. He's fiesty and competitive and already excellent at hitting moving targets on the run. He has a natural ability to turn defenders
and screen them from the ball with his body, which sounds simple, but isn't commonly done that well. He showed what I would call good awareness of what he was supposed to
be doing right from his early snaps, especially considering that he was from a small program, but, yes, there were times where stunts got screwed up and rushers went free, particularly when Andrews was out of the lineup. There were a few pre-snap flags and holding calls, but not a ton. Again, he was a rookie and he wasn't the only OL to struggle with stunts or bull rushes.

He's got precise, lightning-quick feet and his hand and arm usage were better than a lot of kids from more advanced programs. It'll get better still. He can mirror in pass pro, but has gotten beat from over-setting to a fake and all of that is just part of the price of starting a rookie. It takes a while, but it won't take him nearly as long as it took Shaq Mason. Thuney didn't play great until his 3rd season. Strange was better in his 1st season than Thuney was through his 2nd, and everybody said he was a bust, too. How does that assessment look now? Thuney is all-pro. I'd call them
similar prospects, but Strange has a better frame.

When we saw a quick-hitter by Harris or Mondre go up the middle for 15 yards it was often behind a textbook eye-blink-quick kickout trap by Cole. He did that dozens of times and
will do it hundreds more as we find creative ways to utilize that special mobility and speed. The overall athleticism that few OLs have.

He has a few clear deficiencies to address, such as that he needs to add about 15 pounds of muscle mass to anchor better against the beasts and help his drive blocking and also more experience in handling 'veteran NFL pass rush moves. That is about the size of it. Manageable areas to improve upon. Strange said that there was no nutrition program at Chattanooga and he has never been in a full off-season strength training program as he will get to experience now. He'll likely look a lot different when camp opens.

The reason we drafted him so high is that he can do things that other Guards can't and the rest will come soon enough.

I'm really not trying to lecture anyone here, but I'm getting really tired of reading stuff like he was a waste of a 1st-round pick. Be skeptical all you want, but you shouldn't be surprised when he
impresses those same critics and you don't want to be the last one to get on board.

Yes, this.

All of this.

I tend to go more global and big picture because I've have grown extremely tired of arguing about the details which I fully know as wel on many topics.

Often the details in posts like yours and @Flagg the Wanderer are healthy reminders to keep grounded in the the details in far more topics than sports which are big in themselves.

Wish @AllWorldTE and others were still around because they brought depth to discussions.
 
Not saying he won't, but I saw and heard all those same experts you're talking about say the same things about Harry going into year two also. Mankins was a beast from day one, Thuney was also.n
Count your eggs if you like, I hope your right.
Strange has been very good with a few exceptions from day one. and I’m not counting eggs or chickens. I’m simply telling you what I see with my own eyes and that the experts concur.

I don’t recall anybody saying that Harry was going to be anything after his first year. If in fact, most of them were saying just the opposite.
 
It really threatens you when others have different opinions than you. Its a shame because I find you to be a pretty intelligent and insightful poster but your lack of tollorence of differing views hurts the dialog.
That’s a BS thing to say. You either aren’t paying attention or you just took a lazy and weak ass swing.

If you don’t know the reason for my comment (which would seem highly improbable), then you aren’t paying attention around here.
 
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