Looking at the Patriots 2023

[DropKickFlutie]

3.4 million according to Miguel and the rookie cap hits only occur once they sign. Also according to Miguel the Pats will need 15 to 16 million set assisde to navigate the season, this inclludes the draft, going from 51 to 53, practice squad, and having 5 to 6 million on hand to deal with IR issues and bonuses.

Makes sense, which is why that top5 cap space figure talking point was never a real thing. JuJu and Gesicki were the major splurges. I wonder if this puts the Pats as the lowest overall spenders in total cash spend again

 

[SkiptoMyLou]

Who do you think is the Patriots most important off season signing so far? Below is a list of non-Patriot signings.

Mike Gesicki, tight end (one year, up to $ 9 million)
Daniel Ekuale, defensive tackle (one year, money TBD)
James Robinson, running back (two years, $ 8 million)
JuJu Smith-Schuster, wide receiver (three years, $ 33 million)
Riley Reiff, offensive tackle (one year, $ 5 million)
Calvin Anderson, offensive tackle (two years, money TBD)
Chris Board, linebacker/special teamer (two years, up to $ 6.7 million)

My choice is Bill O'Brien.

I agree with you. O'Brien by far.

As far as players I think if Gesicki pans out he could be the best signing just going by potential.

In a perfect world he can be Mac's Kelce -- a piece BOB can move around and create mismatches all over the field. Which to me it's why the Juju signing makes even more sense.

Henry then can play his two way TE role, which he does well enough.

If Bourne or Thornton step up this offense can look dangerous.

I can't help but think Parker will become a cap casualty. Well, him or Bourne, but seeing how good Bourne was two years ago I hope it's the former if that were to be the case.

 

[Hawg73]

There's no point dumping on Parker and letting Bourne off the hook.
I'm not one to allow my hope that Bourne improves dramatically to influence what I know from the cold, hard football facts last year.
In the Parker vs Bourne competition, Parker was far and away the high producer and he did it in 3 fewer games (which speaks to Hawg's point).

Just to be clear, for me, Parker was the better player in '22 despite his misuse early in the season on those poorly conceived GO routes.

Statistics Parker​

SEASON	TEAM	GA	GP	GS	SNAPS	SNAPS%	TGT	REC	REC YDS	YDS/REC	YDS/GM	REC TD	FUM	DROPS	PROD PTS
2022	NE	13	13	10	489	49.7	47	31	539	17.4	41.46	3	0	0	71.9

Statistics Bourne​

SEASON	TEAM	GA	GP	GS	SNAPS	SNAPS%	TGT	REC	REC YDS	YDS/REC	YDS/GM	REC TD	FUM	DROPS	PROD PTS
2022	NE	16	16	2	405	41.2	48	35	434	12.4	27.13	1	2	3	53.3

I need to see both of these WRs perform better or I'm looking for replacements, first for Bourne then for Parker.

Drafting at least 1 WR is a given.

There you go, using stats to wreck a perfectly good seat-of-the-pants opinion.

Maybe I'm soft on Bourne because he can at least break a few tackles or I still see the guy from 2021.

I'm mildly surprised to see Parker with as many as 31 catches, but it's a sobering sight to see two of our "top guys" at about one third the production
of league top guys. God, that was a brutal year to watch our Offense attempt to pass the ball.

I certainly hope we'll take a WR and I'd like to see a fair investment. I'm not entirely sold on Q. Johnson, but I wouldn't hate seeing him
come to Foxboro and we can start to polish him up. One quote stuck with me about him "has special natural separation ability" but
there is no telling what our guys will think about any of the other potential day 1 or 2 WRs.

 

[John Locke]

There you go, using stats to wreck a perfectly good seat-of-the-pants opinion.

Maybe I'm soft on Bourne because he can at least break a few tackles or I still see the guy from 2021.

I'm mildly surprised to see Parker with as many as 31 catches, but it's a sobering sight to see two of our "top guys" at about one third the production
of league top guys. God, that was a brutal year to watch our Offense attempt to pass the ball.

I certainly hope we'll take a WR and I'd like to see a fair investment. I'm not entirely sold on Q. Johnson, but I wouldn't hate seeing him
come to Foxboro and we can start to polish him up. One quote stuck with me about him "has special natural separation ability" but
there is no telling what our guys will think about any of the other potential day 1 or 2 WRs.

I've paid attention to Bourne since a 9er friend told me when the Pat's signed him that he's a touchdown machine.

On the number of catches from the wrs. Last year offensively was just offensive to watch and its been beat to death why it was.

That said, with a couple of rare years here how many wideouts or any other player on this team had career numbers?

It was always about good frontline starters, quality middle class number 2s and lotsa quality depth. Yes, Brady was the quarterback but it's not like he provided many with career or league leading or career numbers.

Just by chance I caught a Podcast yesterday about Juju on a fantasy football channel. Fantasy football gurus have historically hated the Pats and absolutely still do. No mention of the teams success just pissed off cuz Juju is not gonna get them points and wins here.

Real live football is not Fantasy nor Madden.

Belichick has confounded prognosticators for over 20 years and 6 Superbowl Championships by not going the huge player massive stats route.

I've heard it talked about ad nauseum that Pats players never have Hall of Fame numbers.

Seems to me the Hall and many people are missing the boat.

I would, of course love DHop or Odell. Is a number 1 receiver really a huge priority?

 

[chevss454]

View: https://twitter.com/patscap/status/1637457389069672448

 

[chevss454]

View: https://twitter.com/patscap/status/1637456857810731008

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Need a run stuffing LB.

Coverage linebacker would be better...

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

What if we traded or released Bourne and replaced him with an upgrade. I'd do that. In an instant
OBJ may still be a possibility and cut downs are coming which could bring 1 or 2 upgrades.
You may be ok with them for now but our pro player personnel dept. has to earn their pay.
Someone will become available and neither player is safe imo.

Upgrade both of them...their stuck in mediocre territory. Eh...

 

[Grogan]

I think it’s probably a decent set a skill guys, but is it enough to compete in the division? That has really been the issue the last several years IMO. We have good players, but not explosive players that defenses have to really plan for. This is where we get stuck because the defense just can’t slow down those explosive offenses enough and we don’t have enough fire power to stay with them. I would still like to see us get that one guy that defense has to really plan for.

That doesn't happen over night, and you generally don't know when it's coming until it happens. Keep building the team, that's all we can ask for. We weren't one piece away and we still aren't. I get people are impatient after last year, do am I, but we still need to see what Mac is, and last season didn't help. My guess is we will know by the end of the season.

 

[spacecrime]

I think it’s probably a decent set a skill guys, but is it enough to compete in the division? That has really been the issue the last several years IMO. We have good players, but not explosive players that defenses have to really plan for. This is where we get stuck because the defense just can’t slow down those explosive offenses enough and we don’t have enough fire power to stay with them. I would still like to see us get that one guy that defense has to really plan for.

Yeah, that all sounds good until you think about it a little. The the logic falls apart. What you need to win isn't explosive playmakers necessarily, it is a more capable and consistent offense that scores more points. Whether you hawk long bombs or march down the field moving the chains as you it, all that matters is that you score TDs and the end of drives in conjunction with a defense that stops the other team from scoring TDs.

I get your point in that your defense doesn't need to be good if the offense is on fire, but is that really as effective as a defense that prevents the other team from scoring TDs, whether by grinding or explosively? The '85 Bears and '00 Ravens had pretty mediocre offenses but it was okay because opponents couldn't score.

I know you want explosive playmakers but consider what happens when high flying offenses like the record setting 2007 Patriots when faced with the 2007 Giants defense, or when the Greatest Show on turf met the tough and resilient 2001 Patriots defense. Pats scored what? 3 TDs in the 3 playoff games? And won all three.

 

[spacecrime]

If DeAndre Hopkins is traded his cap numbers for his new team would be $19.45M in 2023 and $14.915M in 2024. He can lower these numbers with a restructure.

Jerry Jeudy's fifth year option amount for the 2024 season is $12.987M. His 2023 cap number would be $2,681,767.

- from a Miguel tweet

When I read these bolded comments, I just see smoke and mirrors pretending it doesn't cost $19.45M in 2023 and $14.915M in 2024. Because no matter what year you allocate the numbers to, you are still paying DHop $19.45M in to play in 2023 and $14.915M to play in 2024. If DHop is worth it, fine. pay the money any way you want knowingly paying almost $35 million for two years of DHop.

BUT...which gives the team a better chance of succeeding:

A) $35 mil for 2 years of DHop, or

B) $15 mil for 2 years of Jeudy, and
$20 for two years of someone else

Unfortunately, you won't know the final answer until after the 2024...unless you're DKF, Rivshark or Mazz, of course. They already know as soon as BB makes a move, it was the wrong one. Using the new PatriotsPlanet AI program BBB™ posts for Bill Belichick Bashing can be posted in 10-12 separate threads within minutes of his stupid and short-sighted decision.

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

Yeah, that all sounds good until you think about it a little. The the logic falls apart. What you need to win isn't explosive playmakers necessarily, it is a more capable and consistent offense that scores more points. Whether you hawk long bombs or march down the field moving the chains as you it, all that matters is that you score TDs and the end of drives in conjunction with a defense that stops the other team from scoring TDs.

I get your point in that your defense doesn't need to be good if the offense is on fire, but is that really as effective as a defense that prevents the other team from scoring TDs, whether by grinding or explosively? The '85 Bears and '00 Ravens had pretty mediocre offenses but it was okay because opponents couldn't score.

I know you want explosive playmakers but consider what happens when high flying offenses like the record setting 2007 Patriots when faced with the 2007 Giants defense, or when the Greatest Show on turf met the tough and resilient 2001 Patriots defense. Pats scored what? 3 TDs in the 3 playoff games? And won all three.

First off the shit show of an offensive game plan last season was the #1 reason Mac seemed to slide back. The incredibly poor judgment of the play calling and the failure of the said staff to utilise the right players was also a major problem. Flat out Patricia didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. He hurt the team period. Billy O and the rest of the new coaching staff will do wonders to correct most of that I do like what the team has been doing thus far. I am under no illusion that everything is fixed but it is better.

 

[John Locke]

If DeAndre Hopkins is traded his cap numbers for his new team would be $19.45M in 2023 and $14.915M in 2024. He can lower these numbers with a restructure.

Jerry Jeudy's fifth year option amount for the 2024 season is $12.987M. His 2023 cap number would be $2,681,767.

- from a Miguel tweet

When I read these bolded comments, I just see smoke and mirrors pretending it doesn't cost $19.45M in 2023 and $14.915M in 2024. Because no matter what year you allocate the numbers to, you are still paying DHop $19.45M in to play in 2023 and $14.915M to play in 2024. If DHop is worth it, fine. pay the money any way you want knowingly paying almost $35 million for two years of DHop.

BUT...which gives the team a better chance of succeeding:

A) $35 mil for 2 years of DHop, or

B) $15 mil for 2 years of Jeudy, and
$20 for two years of someone else

Unfortunately, you won't know the final answer until after the 2024...unless you're DKF, Rivshark or Mazz, of course. They already know as soon as BB makes a move, it was the wrong one. Using the new PatriotsPlanet AI program BBB™ posts for Bill Belichick Bashing can be posted in 10-12 separate threads within minutes of his stupid and short-sighted decision.

Somehow I know nothing about this Jeudy kid.

Off to watch some film.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Forget Hopkins. Old and massive cap figures. Jeudy maybe if it was say a trade of Parker + a 3rd

Pats missed out on Cook for a low pick plus a restructured palatable $12M salary for Dallas

 

[DropKickFlutie]

There's no point dumping on Parker and letting Bourne off the hook.
I'm not one to allow my hope that Bourne improves dramatically to influence what I know from the cold, hard football facts last year.
In the Parker vs Bourne competition, Parker was far and away the high producer and he did it in 3 fewer games (which speaks to Hawg's point).

Just to be clear, for me, Parker was the better player in '22 despite his misuse early in the season on those poorly conceived GO routes.

Statistics Parker​

SEASON	TEAM	GA	GP	GS	SNAPS	SNAPS%	TGT	REC	REC YDS	YDS/REC	YDS/GM	REC TD	FUM	DROPS	PROD PTS
2022	NE	13	13	10	489	49.7	47	31	539	17.4	41.46	3	0	0	71.9

Statistics Bourne​

SEASON	TEAM	GA	GP	GS	SNAPS	SNAPS%	TGT	REC	REC YDS	YDS/REC	YDS/GM	REC TD	FUM	DROPS	PROD PTS
2022	NE	16	16	2	405	41.2	48	35	434	12.4	27.13	1	2	3	53.3

I need to see both of these WRs perform better or I'm looking for replacements, first for Bourne then for Parker.

Drafting at least 1 WR is a given.

Statistics can paint any story. Respectfully, this is another example where you’re either deliberately misusing stats or falling into traps with data. Parker starting 10 of 13 games and only getting 31 catches, is a lot worse than Bourne starting 2 games all year and getting 35 catches. Parker was almost useless for huge portions of games as a starter. And Mac stopped looking his way. Half of Mac’s INTs were to Parker not fighting for the ball, and the real damage there does not even show up on Parker’s stat sheet.

Agree with other posts that Parker is expendable. Either trade or cut him. Zero cap hit for getting rid of this mistake in the first place. Everyone else is better than Parker and should play above him for offensive snaps as well as targets: Henry, Gesicki, JuJu, Bourne, Thornton, plus Mondre would get most of the snaps.

 

[chevss454]

Statistics can paint any story. Respectfully, this is another example where you’re either deliberately misusing stats or falling into traps with data. Parker starting 10 of 13 games and only getting 31 catches, is a lot worse than Bourne starting 2 games all year and getting 35 catches. Parker was almost useless for huge portions of games as a starter. And Mac stopped looking his way. Half of Mac’s INTs were to Parker not fighting for the ball, and the real damage there does not even show up on Parker’s stat sheet.

Agree with other posts that Parker is expendable. Either trade or cut him. Zero cap hit for getting rid of this mistake in the first place. Everyone else is better than Parker and should play above him for offensive snaps as well as targets: Henry, Gesicki, JuJu, Bourne, Thornton, plus Mondre would get most of the snaps.

I did nothing of the kind. I stated the cold stats. Period. Come up with your own conclusions. I stated my conclusions --> both players can be upgraded as far as I'm concerned if they don't come out on fire early. I'm not willing to accept either player's numbers from last year.

Question: Why do continuously look for a reason to cause discord on this board?

 

[rivshark86]

If DeAndre Hopkins is traded his cap numbers for his new team would be $19.45M in 2023 and $14.915M in 2024. He can lower these numbers with a restructure.

Jerry Jeudy's fifth year option amount for the 2024 season is $12.987M. His 2023 cap number would be $2,681,767.

- from a Miguel tweet

When I read these bolded comments, I just see smoke and mirrors pretending it doesn't cost $19.45M in 2023 and $14.915M in 2024. Because no matter what year you allocate the numbers to, you are still paying DHop $19.45M in to play in 2023 and $14.915M to play in 2024. If DHop is worth it, fine. pay the money any way you want knowingly paying almost $35 million for two years of DHop.

BUT...which gives the team a better chance of succeeding:

A) $35 mil for 2 years of DHop, or

B) $15 mil for 2 years of Jeudy, and
$20 for two years of someone else

Unfortunately, you won't know the final answer until after the 2024...unless you're DKF, Rivshark or Mazz, of course. They already know as soon as BB makes a move, it was the wrong one. Using the new PatriotsPlanet AI program BBB™ posts for Bill Belichick Bashing can be posted in 10-12 separate threads within minutes of his stupid and short-sighted decision.

Lol
I’m actually pretty happy with this offseason. I’m not a Ju Ju fan, but I was worried we see the team overpay for Odell, DHop, or a Broncos WR. I didn’t see the value. I’ll miss meyers, but Mike G has tons of untapped potential. Very happy that Jonnu is gone. Frankly I think Parker has a lot of room to improve.
I don’t think WR needs to be addressed till next offseason. The value is just not out there either in FA or the draft. Why draft one in the second or third when we have a room full of those types? Better to take a TE, and grab a top tier OT in the first. It’s not fun, but the WRs projected for the 1st just don’t seem as good as the top tier OTs.
We will know what Mac is for sure this time next year.

 

[aloyouis]

Yeah, that all sounds good until you think about it a little. The the logic falls apart. What you need to win isn't explosive playmakers necessarily, it is a more capable and consistent offense that scores more points. Whether you hawk long bombs or march down the field moving the chains as you it, all that matters is that you score TDs and the end of drives in conjunction with a defense that stops the other team from scoring TDs.

I get your point in that your defense doesn't need to be good if the offense is on fire, but is that really as effective as a defense that prevents the other team from scoring TDs, whether by grinding or explosively? The '85 Bears and '00 Ravens had pretty mediocre offenses but it was okay because opponents couldn't score.

I know you want explosive playmakers but consider what happens when high flying offenses like the record setting 2007 Patriots when faced with the 2007 Giants defense, or when the Greatest Show on turf met the tough and resilient 2001 Patriots defense. Pats scored what? 3 TDs in the 3 playoff games? And won all three.

Plain common sense. 100% correct.

In my opinion.

 

[aloyouis]

Forget Hopkins. Old and massive cap figures. Jeudy maybe if it was say a trade of Parker + a 3rd

Pats missed out on Cook for a low pick plus a restructured palatable $12M salary for Dallas

Traded four separate times for a reason(s). Including by the Patriots.

Go away.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

DeAndre Hopkins Hires Agent, Open To Adjusting Contract

MARCH 19: In an update on Hopkins' situation, veteran reporter Mike Jurecki notes that the five-time Pro Bowler's willingness to adjust …

www.profootballrumors.com

...it still could happen...