Looking at the Patriots 2023

Flagg the Wanderer

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The defense should be as good as any in the NFL.

I do worry about relying on that in 2023, only because the calls are so skewed towards the offense. I mean a DB can barely brush a WRs jersey and a QB like Rodgers just has to make the fisting motion and get the call.
I remember listening to Bart Scott, I know everyone here hates him, he was saying the Chiefs run an illegal pick play with Kelce half of the time and never get called.
It’s been commanded from the top that the league wants offense, questionable calls in the 3rd and 4th quarter be damned.
And it’s turning into the NBA where the stars get the calls. Unfortunately the pats right now don’t have many stars.
So am I excited about this defense? Yes. Very. I’m just waiting for the BS holding call on a Jets WR, or the late hit on Allen or Tua.
Agreed, except I suspect the offense turns the corner into the top half of the league as well. This diverse group of skill players doesn't need a superstar at QB, it needs a point guard distributor. To be a top 5 offense, it needs a superstar QB.

Complementary football, right? Let the defense do it's thing, and the offense (and STs) helps them by not turning the ball over or putting them on short fields, with short rest, or for too much of the game. Will the offense "actually" be a top 10 group? Unlikely. Could it be a top 10 group statistically, in terms of first downs, time of position and even points scored? Yeah, that could definitely happen.

Say you "actually" have the 17th best offense in the league in a vacuum. By DVOA, EPA, eyeball test, or what have you - however you think you get an "actual, true ranking." But if the defense gives you short fields, keeps opposing defenses on the field a lot so not only are there more opportunities for errors, but they're also tired, keeps the offense from being predictable and having to play from behind? If it's an offense that doesn't hurt it's defense with mistakes and a lot of 3 and outs, presto! Top 10 scoring offense! And your #17 offense in a vacuum is maybe #12-15 even by those same statistics, because they're running more plays than average against defenders that are tired, stressed, and demoralized.
 

aloyouis

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Agreed, except I suspect the offense turns the corner into the top half of the league as well. This diverse group of skill players doesn't need a superstar at QB, it needs a point guard distributor. To be a top 5 offense, it needs a superstar QB.

Complementary football, right? Let the defense do it's thing, and the offense (and STs) helps them by not turning the ball over or putting them on short fields, with short rest, or for too much of the game. Will the offense "actually" be a top 10 group? Unlikely. Could it be a top 10 group statistically, in terms of first downs, time of position and even points scored? Yeah, that could definitely happen.

Say you "actually" have the 17th best offense in the league in a vacuum. By DVOA, EPA, eyeball test, or what have you - however you think you get an "actual, true ranking." But if the defense gives you short fields, keeps opposing defenses on the field a lot so not only are there more opportunities for errors, but they're also tired, keeps the offense from being predictable and having to play from behind? If it's an offense that doesn't hurt it's defense with mistakes and a lot of 3 and outs, presto! Top 10 scoring offense! And your #17 offense in a vacuum is maybe #12-15 even by those same statistics, because they're running more plays than average against defenders that are tired, stressed, and demoralized.
100%
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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If the Patriots see ways Malik Cunningham can add value, look for him to be QB2 on a game to game basis so they can use those packages or his athleticism. Zappe would be QB3 for a given game, only able to be activated if Mac and Malik couldn't go. But he'd (presumably) be the week to week backup if Mac had to remain sidelined. In that case, Zappe would go from QB3 to QB1, with Malik at QB2 in both cases.Mac, McSorley, or a TBD PS QB would be the QB3.
 

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If the Patriots see ways Malik Cunningham can add value, look for him to be QB2 on a game to game basis so they can use those packages or his athleticism. Zappe would be QB3 for a given game, only able to be activated if Mac and Malik couldn't go. But he'd (presumably) be the week to week backup if Mac had to remain sidelined. In that case, Zappe would go from QB3 to QB1, with Malik at QB2 in both cases.Mac, McSorley, or a TBD PS QB would be the QB3.
The emergency qb must be on the 53. He cannot be a ps player.
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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The emergency qb must be on the 53. He cannot be a ps player.
Yes. I meant if Mac is hurt badly enough that he really can't play, someone on the PS (McSorley or whoever) would be activated to become QB3.

If they don't have a Cunningham package, or don't plan to use him in other ways, it's all irrelevant - whoever earns QB2 is QB2, etc. Just thought it was interesting that it's a system that can be worked to gain a little more flexibility if Cunningham offers something of value.
 

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The emergency qb must be on the 53. He cannot be a ps player.
Zappe would be the emergency QB, not Malik.

1. Cunningham activated from PS

2. Zappe named emergency QB.

3. During the game Jones and Cunningham play QB, going in and out at Patriots' discretion.

4 If both Jones and Cunningham get hurt and cannot play, then Zappe finishes the game
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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Zappe would be the emergency QB, not Malik.

1. Cunningham activated from PS

2. Zappe named emergency QB.

3. During the game Jones and Cunningham play QB, going in and out at Patriots' discretion.

4 If both Jones and Cunningham get hurt and cannot play, then Zappe finishes the game
Right. And if Mac goes down for a longer span, it would be Zappe as QB1, Cunningham as QB2, and Mac (if he's close) or someone else (who would have been activated from the PS) as the QB3, who is inactive except for an emergency.

This scenario would have worked out to almost a free spot on the active roster (the 47/48 for game day, not the 53) when Jules was here.
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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Also 1st in Defensive EPA/play, lowest missed tackle rate, 2nd in # of plays against, and top 5 in opposing offensive efficiency rate, total yards against, and yards per play against.

This defense was much better than was generally perceived, and if you look at just the later season and metrics that are weighted for strength of opposition, it's more stark.

The areas they weren't elite were big play % allowed and % of negative plays. Those are often experience-driven metrics.
 

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Thought this was a fun article and worth a read.


Kayshon Boutte was once thought to be a potential Top 10 pick.

When the wide receiver from LSU was finally taken by the Patriots in the sixth round of last month’s NFL Draft, Ryan Antoine’s reaction was simple.
“He’s the steal of the draft,” the Westgate High School football coach said. “He can just go play football and be in an organization of true structure and great stability. I think that will be amazing for him. He couldn’t ask for a better place to go to. Now he just has to show everybody what everybody around here already knows.”

Antoine has been watching Boutte score touchdowns since peewee ball in in New Iberia, Louisiana. When it came time to decide on a high school, Antoine convinced him to attend Westgate, and Boutte grew into a highly-touted recruit under his watch. As a freshman, Antoine tried to ease him in, but a month into the season had Boutte already forced his way into the varsity lineup.
“The biggest thing was just his competitiveness,” Antoine said. Boutte played everywhere at Westgate — wildcat quarterback, running back, inside receiver, outside receiver, kick returner etc. — and Antoine found creative ways to motivate him. One, in particular, came against Captain Shreve during his sophomore year.

“I took his phone from him,” Antoine recalled. “I said, ‘Hey you’re not getting your phone unless you have a breakout game.’”

Boutte lifted Westgate to a 27-22 win with three second-half touchdowns, including a 97-yard reception, and the game-winner with 2:02 remaining in the fourth quarter.

Kayshon ended the night with over 300 yards receiving,” Antoine said. “He just started making plays all over the place. I’m like OK, now he’s arrived. He’s definitely one of the top players in the state just as a 15, 16-year-old... Now you can have your phone back.”

Another time, Boutte showed up on game day in compression tights. Antoine wasn’t a fan.

“I didn’t want guys wearing tights,” Antoine said. “‘In order to keep these tights on, you’d better have a hell of a night or I’ll take you out of the game.’ Two plays later, I think he had two touchdowns back-to-back... ‘You all can put tights on now. If that’s how you’re going to play, we’re all going to wear tights.’”

Though an undoubted star in high school, things were more turbulent for Boutte at the college level. After excelling under Ed Orgeron as a freshman at LSU — one afternoon he torched Ole Miss for an SEC record 308 receiving yards — Boutte broke his ankle and ended his sophomore year prematurely.

Then when Brian Kelly took over for his junior season, there was friction and a different offense (and a different coaching staff) to learn. Off the field, Boutte’s girlfriend gave birth to a son last September, so there were plenty of changes across the board.

Though Boutte wasn’t able to match his stellar first season at LSU, Antoine believes Foxborough is the perfect place for him to hit his ceiling.

“To be honest with you, Kayshon still hasn’t scratched the surface of his potential,” Antoine said. “I think going to an organization like the Patriots with Coach (Bill) Belichick, I think you’re going to see monumental leaps. The biggest thing with Kayshon is just keep it competitive, keep it structured, and always have him working to always get better. When the chips are on the table, I know he’s always ready to perform."

“Get ready. Get y’all’s popcorn. Y’all going to see the show.”

:popcorn:














 

aloyouis

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Thought this was a fun article and worth a read.


Kayshon Boutte was once thought to be a potential Top 10 pick.

When the wide receiver from LSU was finally taken by the Patriots in the sixth round of last month’s NFL Draft, Ryan Antoine’s reaction was simple.
“He’s the steal of the draft,” the Westgate High School football coach said. “He can just go play football and be in an organization of true structure and great stability. I think that will be amazing for him. He couldn’t ask for a better place to go to. Now he just has to show everybody what everybody around here already knows.”

Antoine has been watching Boutte score touchdowns since peewee ball in in New Iberia, Louisiana. When it came time to decide on a high school, Antoine convinced him to attend Westgate, and Boutte grew into a highly-touted recruit under his watch. As a freshman, Antoine tried to ease him in, but a month into the season had Boutte already forced his way into the varsity lineup.
“The biggest thing was just his competitiveness,” Antoine said. Boutte played everywhere at Westgate — wildcat quarterback, running back, inside receiver, outside receiver, kick returner etc. — and Antoine found creative ways to motivate him. One, in particular, came against Captain Shreve during his sophomore year.

“I took his phone from him,” Antoine recalled. “I said, ‘Hey you’re not getting your phone unless you have a breakout game.’”

Boutte lifted Westgate to a 27-22 win with three second-half touchdowns, including a 97-yard reception, and the game-winner with 2:02 remaining in the fourth quarter.

Kayshon ended the night with over 300 yards receiving,” Antoine said. “He just started making plays all over the place. I’m like OK, now he’s arrived. He’s definitely one of the top players in the state just as a 15, 16-year-old... Now you can have your phone back.”

Another time, Boutte showed up on game day in compression tights. Antoine wasn’t a fan.

“I didn’t want guys wearing tights,” Antoine said. “‘In order to keep these tights on, you’d better have a hell of a night or I’ll take you out of the game.’ Two plays later, I think he had two touchdowns back-to-back... ‘You all can put tights on now. If that’s how you’re going to play, we’re all going to wear tights.’”

Though an undoubted star in high school, things were more turbulent for Boutte at the college level. After excelling under Ed Orgeron as a freshman at LSU — one afternoon he torched Ole Miss for an SEC record 308 receiving yards — Boutte broke his ankle and ended his sophomore year prematurely.

Then when Brian Kelly took over for his junior season, there was friction and a different offense (and a different coaching staff) to learn. Off the field, Boutte’s girlfriend gave birth to a son last September, so there were plenty of changes across the board.

Though Boutte wasn’t able to match his stellar first season at LSU, Antoine believes Foxborough is the perfect place for him to hit his ceiling.

“To be honest with you, Kayshon still hasn’t scratched the surface of his potential,” Antoine said. “I think going to an organization like the Patriots with Coach (Bill) Belichick, I think you’re going to see monumental leaps. The biggest thing with Kayshon is just keep it competitive, keep it structured, and always have him working to always get better. When the chips are on the table, I know he’s always ready to perform."

“Get ready. Get y’all’s popcorn. Y’all going to see the show.”

:popcorn:














I'd rather he be self motivated and self-disciplined, but if he needs structure then the Patriots are the place to be for him to excel.
 
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HSanders

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I'd rather he be self motivated in self-discipline, but if he needs structure then the patriots are the place to be for him to excel.
i hear you but...i am not very self-motivated when it comes to working out. during covid,i did do a work out video or something daily, but i didn't have the same committment so i put on weight. that's why i sign up for classes and go to a studio. having classes scheduled and getting my butt kicked by an instructor is how i get better. i work out about 14 hours/week.
 

Flagg the Wanderer

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i hear you but...i am not very self-motivated when it comes to working out. during covid,i did do a work out video or something daily, but i didn't have the same committment so i put on weight. that's why i sign up for classes and go to a studio. having classes scheduled and getting my butt kicked by an instructor is how i get better. i work out about 14 hours/week.
That sounds pretty self-motivated to me. Enough to know yourself.
 

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i hear you but...i am not very self-motivated when it comes to working out. during covid,i did do a work out video or something daily, but i didn't have the same committment so i put on weight. that's why i sign up for classes and go to a studio. having classes scheduled and getting my butt kicked by an instructor is how i get better. i work out about 14 hours/week.

You ARE self motivated. You are doing what is in your own best interest on you own. Nobody has to tell you. It doesn't impact your career.
 

Hawg73

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So, it seems that the Thursday OTA session was cancelled and the reason is that the Pats violated an unspecified rule pertaining to the offseason which
will cost us another day of OTAs.

So, the question is -- what did we do?

I'm going with one of three:

1. Bill used his unofficial massive network of College personnel to perform defacto extra interviews with draft prospects.

2. The Patriots were caught putting in a CIA-level surveillance suite in the new Gillette lighthouse capable of improved signal jamming, AI lip-reading and
directed sideline beams using infrasound that can cause opponents to feel lethargic and confused.

3. Mac Jones was ordered to study his playbook in between songs while sitting the front row of last Friday's Taylor Swift concert and a clip of that was posted to
a 14 year-old girl from Medford's Tik-tok.
 

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It’s being talked about in random football news, but I sure hope Hopkins is a Patriot on a reasonable contract for the next 2 years.
He seems ready to buy in, and that will give the team time to draft and develop a number one stud for the long term next year.
 

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Just to keep it real, that picture has been around for a while and was also trotted out during the first days of FA. I say
that because I got fooled. Sorry, but It's bogus.

I believe we would be a better O with him in Foxboro, but I think we'll be fine when he signs with KC, which I'd
describe as a no-brainer if he wants a shot at a ring and not just the biggest possible payday.

They are very solid on the OL and have the best QB in the business. The combination of Mahomes' smarts/accuracy and
DHops hands and ability to screen defenders never mind the time the two will enjoy to work things open spells trouble for
anybody trying to stop them. The Chiefs don't make a lot of personnel mistakes, unfortunately, and they'll make him an
offer he can't refuse.
 

foobahl

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Just to keep it real, that picture has been around for a while and was also trotted out during the first days of FA. I say
that because I got fooled. Sorry, but It's bogus.

I believe we would be a better O with him in Foxboro, but I think we'll be fine when he signs with KC, which I'd
describe as a no-brainer if he wants a shot at a ring and not just the biggest possible payday.

They are very solid on the OL and have the best QB in the business. The combination of Mahomes' smarts/accuracy and
DHops hands and ability to screen defenders never mind the time the two will enjoy to work things open spells trouble for
anybody trying to stop them. The Chiefs don't make a lot of personnel mistakes, unfortunately, and they'll make him an
offer he can't refuse.
That picture gets posted here any time a FA is associated with the Pats.
 
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