Looks like the Patriots are...

Status
Not open for further replies.
We used to be the team with fans who understood football. Unfortunately with winning repeatedly comes front-running fans who just don't appreciate how rare the last two decades were. Reminds me of Gary Tanguay once saying the season will be a total loss if they tdon't go to the superbowl.

OTOH, your posts and those of Mazz are so similar in tone, content, working and syntax that I have a had time believing that you are nothing but a sock puppet.,



The way we got here was Belichick's insistence on accountability, not overpaying for any one player, being cold-hearted to the point of being ruthless when it came to personnel decisions, and most of all, avoiding dead money by letting players go a year early rather than a year late. On time if possible, but a year late is a disaster..

Edit: I'm not pissed at all. I am extremely hopeful for the future. This is a team that is going pla

The Pats just went to overtime with a top-5 team in the league despite losing the turnover differential -2, and effectively giving up two pick-6s (Diggs' actual pick-6, and the Meyers TD that was called back, which promptly turned into a turnover, a 7 point swing). If they had recovered the muffed punt, they likely win that game in regulation despite losing the turnover battle -1 (-2 in actuality, but -1 hypothetically had they recovered that muff) to the best offensive team in football. I say this not to argue that this was a moral victory, but I say this to demonstrate that there isn't some fatal, fundamental flaw with this team. They're a good, not great, football team that can play with anyone in the league, but need to stop turning the ball over and be a bit a tougher in critical, late-game situations if they want to turn close losses into close wins.

My reaction is not one of: "man, this team is complete hot garbage, with a bad coach, bad players, and no future".
Instead my reaction is: "man, that was a close game. I'm frustrated this team can't make the critical plays late in games to come up with wins, and I'm really frustrated that they keep turning the ball over".

There isn't some fundamental flaw or "gotcha" issue. The coaching (particularly offensively) could be better in spots, I think McDaniels made some serious strategic errors today. The players need to make plays and execute better at times, they need to stop turning the damn ball over ... but they're not a bad team, with 3 of their 4 losses coming by a combined 9 points, two of those games being against top-5 teams in the league. They laid their once-per-season egg against New Orleans and played down to Houston.

They're still 1-3 years away from potentially being elite again (pending personnel decisions and Mac's progression). They need more talent in their defensive front-7, and Jones needs time to grow physically and gain experience, but they're not a bad team in their current iteration; they're a pretty good, not great team, that can't stop turning the ball over. Outside of the Jets game, I believe this team's TO differential for the season is -9 (-5 including the Jets game). I don't care how good you are, you won't win many games when that's the case.

The defense was good enough today, but they weren't great. "Great" would've been a late turnover to seal the game. Am I disappointed in the defense given who they were playing? No. Do I want to see them take the next step towards being great, which is generating game-winning plays? Absolutely.

Am I happy they lost? Absolutely not. Are they immune from criticism? Nope. Were there coaching decisions that I would've liked to have seen approached differently, by both Belichick and McDaniels? 100%, yes.

Do I think Bill Belichick is some feeble, infirm, old man who has lost his grasp on the game, lost his edge, and lost the essence of winning football? Not at all. Do I still feel he's as good of a coach as you'll find in the league? Yes, certainly. Do I trust him leading this team through the next 4-5 years, should he choose to stick around for that length of time? There's no one else I'd rather have.

Football is such a game-to-game, matchup sport. Do I think it's likely they win the division? Not at all. But we've seen runs happen, teams get hot, wacky plays/bounces of the ball, etc, and I wouldn't be shocked if New England found some traction and ended up around 9-10 wins, while Buffalo loses their magic. Would I put money on it? Nope, not for a second. Will I hold out hope they turn things around? Yeah, for sure.

Division aside, I think they have a good chance of making the postseason as a wild-card. 2-4 looks bad ... 3-3, or 4-2 would feel much better, but ultimately 2-4 is only one or two games away from 3-3/4-2, and most of the league is sitting in the 2-4 to 4-2 bracket, with 11 games left to be played. Don't need to be a mathematician to realize the team's goal of making the postseason is still very much in front of them.

The most important thing is that this team recovers physically and emotionally in order to avoid a letdown against the Jets. If I was Belichick, I might give them an extra day off and let them recharge. After a tough, emotional loss like this, I think it's better to err on the side of less work, more time to mentally/physically reinvigorate, than run the guys into the ground and come out flat the following week.

Looking forward to the rest of this season: The schedule is somewhat frontloaded. Buffalo is a good team but those AFCE games are usually tight and we matchup well with them. Outside of those games against Buffalo, the toughest ones left are LAC, CLE, TEN, CAR - all of those games are played by the end of November and are winnable. If they can win 3-4 of those matchups and pull out at least one against Buffalo, I think they will get a wild card spot (and if they find their way in, no one is going to want to play them, IMO).

At the end of the day losing f*cking sucks. The difference between a nice autumn evening and a miserable one is a Pats win, and I miss the feeling of them pulling out a big win ... miss it a lot. That said, it’s hard to feel they’re a bad team after watching today’s game; they looked like a playoff team to me. They just can’t find the plays they need to win close games. Tough, but on the balance I feel relatively positive about watching them going forward (for the rest of this season, and beyond into future seasons).
I don't disagree with much of what you say. What I do disagree with is why we are here at all, we didn't need to be, we could have easily had a 5 years with Brady. BILL failed with the roster on all levels, and now people think we are getting better? I'm not seeing that at all, this is a slow, old team, that is going to get their rookie QB hurt. Don't doubt that's going to happen, I mean with the way he's taking hits, it's only a matter of time.
 
Because "on paper" isn't worth anything as opposed to actually showing it on the field? I'm not that upset about the truth.
That's what I don't understand, how can you as a Pat's fan not be pissed? Bill the coach, is failing with the disastrous roster that Bill the GM has provided him. When Brady was here he could make up for it most of the time, now we get all the moral victories we want. This team is not getting better.
 
there was 0 chance tb would have stayed, let alone for 5 more years. he wanted a different type of atmosphere. bb adapts to situations when needed. it's part of what makes him the greatest. and i am extremely happy he DID NOT compromise his team to make tb happy in this particular way. if he had it would have been a "do as i say, not as i do" moment for his team. sure some would have been ok with it. but part of what made tb and bb great together was that tb did not get the exceptions. he willingly subverted his desires for the team, setting an example for his teammates. and so he would have, in a NEGATIVE(pats speaking) way had bb given in to all his desires. tb wanted something new. that's life. he's allowed to want it and seek it elsewhere. and bb is allowed not to give in to it. and neither has to be "wrong" in what they did.
 
That's what I don't understand, how can you as a Pat's fan not be pissed? Bill the coach, is failing with the disastrous roster that Bill the GM has provided him. When Brady was here he could make up for it most of the time, now we get all the moral victories we want. This team is not getting better.

You're going to believe what you're going to believe. Your mind is set. If your mind is set on critiquing everything BB does blindly you will do that. It's just the way it is.

That said, don't be surprised when people can look at the same things but with different eyes. I see a coach that is still hungry to win, that is willing his teams to keep pushing. While that hasn't yet beared fruits, I believe eventually it will. Impatience and that spoiled mindset is to be expected from some fans, but other fans can appreciate past success and see the potential in the future.

This isn't moral victory mindset either, it's just seeing that this team is trying their heart out. Then you hear the pressers and nobody is down on themselves; they're looking ahead. That's a well coached team right there.
 
Last edited:
I been a Patriots fan for over 50 years. After the last 20, this team owes me nothing.
What I would like to see for the second half of the season is for this team to make continuing improvement in all areas.
I don't care about record or making the playoffs. Just continuing improvement so they can take the next step next year.
Improving the OL into a solid unit is the top priority going forward. If they need to use a 1st round pick on of the best OL prospects, then that's what they should do.
 
To everyone defending McD, this isn't a 1 or 2 year thing. This has been going on a long, long time. Opposing defenses are calling our plays out at the line every game. The only time he is getting anything by design seems to be on trick plays, and they only get a couple of them a game if that.
 
I like our future very much. We're just missing a few players - an OT, a WR1 with good hands, a good to vgood CB, a LB...our needs are obvious - and a little time to come together.
The telling part will be how this team looks in December, to me. Whether they're in the playoffs or not is irrelevant. If they look like a real team by the end of the year, there will be a lot to like come 2022.
 
I was really doing some thinking last night about this team and the last 2+ seasons in particular - 2019, 2020 and now this season.

I think when we all saw the level of frustration Brady was having in 2019 when for the first time in 19 years we saw him really dejected and unable to mask his frustrations we (myself included) may have misconstrued his demeanor and thought it was ALL the roster that was frustrating him, in particular the younger players. I now think it was not really that at all. I think Brady was frustrated at the direction of the offense as he has said time and again that he wanted more input, he wanted in to be a collaboration. He told Montana that the Patriots would tell him his ideas would be considered and then they would do their own thing. Brady saw the offenses changing in the NFL with the rules, the college concepts, the emergence of talents like Mahomes, Lamar, the dynamic offenses of the elite teams, and understood where the Pats offense had to go to compete not only from a roster standpoint but from a philosophy stand point.

Now look at the game last night with that as the back drop. We all saw Mac throwing dimes in the first quarter and then for some unknown reason, we completely stop running the seam routes or any play that will stress the defense past 15 yards and literally don't score again until the fourth quarter. If not for Dallas literally peeing down its leg, we are down probably multiple scores in the third. Then we actually defer the kickoff and get the ball back with 1:30, Bill takes a knee and then says "we knew we were getting the ball to start the second half?" What!? The whole point of deferring is to try to do the double score before half and then to start the third quarter.

That is the type of conservative coaching that has been going back to 2019. At first, I thought Bill may have been coaching that way because Brady was an older player but now I realize I was wrong. This is the way Bill wants to coach and I believe that contributed heavily to Brady's frustrations in 2019 and his desire to ultimately leave in FA.

I can't understand why they have this type of tight leash on Jones. We are 2-4. It is time to release this kid and try doing some designed roll outs like Dak did time and again last night. Coach Mac to step up in the pocket and run outside to extend plays. We all know he has the athletic ability but was always sitting behind that all pro Bama line. Time to get him out of that 7 yard pocket zone and let him run the perimeter a bit so he stops getting smashed. The coaching of this has really been subpar. He has shown he is a really bright kid, a tough kid and one that puts mistakes behind him. Let him truly lead this team instead of the training wheels.
 
Stopped reading right there. Good try.
You can read whatever you want but I think it is worth going back to 2019 to understand where we are as an offense as the same frustrations that we are experiencing now were present back then.
 
You can read whatever you want but I think it is worth going back to 2019 to understand where we are as an offense as the same frustrations that we are experiencing now were present back then.

Not if everything revolves around Brady and your anti-BB agenda. You have your forum to post that on.
 
Not if everything revolves around Brady and your anti-BB agenda. You have your forum to post that on.
The topic of this thread is literally the state of the team.
 
Right. 2021.

Not "once upon a time in 2019, Brady..."
My entire post was about 2021. I went back to 2019 because I believe that is when this conservative offensive philosophy set in.
 
Please, you are kidding yourself. We used to be the team that laughed at the the fanboys with the moral victories. Oh yaa, we almost won, we almost got there. Bullshit, this team is exactly where Bill Belichick put us. Brady can't play anymore? Really? We can't afford a roster? How do you guys like the way Bill spent that 165 million? Hows that Oline look? Could has used Gilmore today? Bill needs to be fired asap, him and his d bag sons need to be shown the door, they have destroyed this team.
What a maroon
The topic of this thread is literally the state of the team.
And what better opportunity to hi-jack a nice thread into an Anti- Bill, Tom Brady Memorial thread. There's some more low hanging fruit. Or hanging curveball. Not sure which.

Cheers
 
I can assure you I am not Grogan. UT can confirm.
I am too old to try to keep track of multiple accounts. Lol
Wait, you're not a teenie bopper? That might be more embarrassing than being one on here. Wow.
 
The telling part will be how this team looks in December, to me. Whether they're in the playoffs or not is irrelevant. If they look like a real team by the end of the year, there will be a lot to like come 2022.
Exactly. I think it's odd how many children we have as fans, completely oblivious to what a rebuild looks like when BB did it in 2002/2003 and then again in 2010/2011. It takes a few seasons to get the people and then to get continuity moving in one direction. We're watching 2011 right now. That team somehow made it to a SB, but if people remember that season it was a season where there were some head-scratching moments on offense that year with the talent they had. They couldn't cross mid field on XMas Eve at home in the first half vs Miami, for example.

It was a newer team with younger players just like this one.

The anger from this entitled Grogan loser is typical of our pathetic and fake fans who claim to have been around during the Sullivan years, is pretty pathetic.

Look at Miami....They try to do the Jets fast-build thingy and it just blew up in their face. Their D is terrible, they're terrible and they don't have a QB.

It's a process and immediate gratification society and entitled fans in our fanbase hate a process.
 
Wait, you're not a teenie bopper? That might be more embarrassing than being one on here. Wow.
I most certainly am. Don't you believe any different. ;)
 
You're going to believe what you're going to believe. Your mind is set. If your mind is set on critiquing everything BB does blindly you will do that. It's just the way it is.

That said, don't be surprised when people can look at the same things but with different eyes. I see a coach that is still hungry to win, that is willing his teams to keep pushing. While that hasn't yet beared fruits, I believe eventually it will. Impatience and that spoiled mindset is to be expected from some fans, but other fans can appreciate past success and see the potential in the future.

This isn't moral victory mindset either, it's just seeing that this team is trying their heart out. Then you hear the pressers and nobody is down on themselves; they're looking ahead. That's a well coached team right there.
I hope you're right, I hope this is just growing pains on the way to rebuilding the roster, but I'm just not seeing that. Instead I'm seeing a trend of poor personnel decisions that are having long term consequences. Aside from the poor drafts of late, how do you go into an offseason with your starting franchise QB not only not under contract, but without the ability to franchise him, and no other viable option on the roster to replace him? People can make all the excuses they like, but Bill had all offseason, free agency and the draft to prepare for the possible departure of Brady and did nothing. Brady called his bluff, and we ended up signing Cam fucking Newton 30 days before the season started. Sorry but that is an inexcusable mismanagement of the team, and I'm not going to take the passive attitude of the Pats fans that say, "oh well we had a great 20 years, so it's ok if we suck the next 20." As for the 165 million dollar spending spree, I have seen absolutely nothing from this team that says that money was well spent, maybe for the moral victory crowd can spin something positive about the TE's, but since we hold only two victories over the mighty Jets and Texans I'd say it's been a massive failure.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top