Mac Jones Is Our QB1

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3 Point Stan said:
It's difficult to look back at the Mac Jones era and feel that Bill (or the Patriots as an organization) ruined Mac Jones. You could easily ask, "Well, what about Matt Cassel?" (who the Patriots turned into a multi-millionaire). By contrast, I do feel Washington ruined RGIII's career, as did Indy with Andrew Luck, so it does happen.

Mac Jones has a lot of characteristics that I loathe in virtually all highly-touted QB's coming out of college. So many of these guys have been handed the keys to the proverbial Ferrari as children. They've been propped up in their lives for at least the last decade, have faced very little TRUE adversity and when they face it at the pro-level, they are deer in the headlights.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the fathe." - Mike Tyson

These guys get punched in the face and not even their entourage can pick them up off the ground again. A guy like Tom Brady came in knowing he was going to have to take a few punches along the way.

Think back to the mid-90's. How many "can't miss" QB's can you think of coming out of the draft? I am not talking about guys who ended up having great careers, I'm talking about the guys who we had no doubts on coming out of the draft. To me, there are three:
Peyton Manning
Andrew Luck
Joe Burrow

Who else did you feel that way about, if any? You could make a case for Michael Vick, Stafford, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, etc. The most recent guy I felt that way about was Trevor Lawrence but he's looking more Alex Smith/Carson Palmer-ish each year. Most pressure-packed position in all of sports. Not everybody's built for the challenge. In fact, most aren't.
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I think it was a combo. For sure Bill ruined him IMO but I also think Jones probably does not have the goods either. I am not sure how you can look back on the 2022 season and not come away with Bill severely hurting Jones. He was coming off a very solid rookie year and Bill decides to change the offensive system and hire a DC in Patricia to coach offense. Made no sense especially when the season started going south and Bill did nothing. Then this year, Bill spent the majority of his team building capital on defense leaving the offense in shambles on the Oline and bereft of any real talent at the skill positions despite having cap money to spend.

I brought this up on another thread but you can't dismiss Cassell learning from Brady for 3 years or the fact that he literally inherited a stacked team in 2008 facing one of the easiest schedules on top. He also had a legit OC in McDaniels. I could go on but really IMO it is apples to oranges in comparison ...
 
Mazz22 said:
I think it was a combo. For sure Bill ruined him IMO but I also think Jones probably does not have the goods either. I am not sure how you can look back on the 2022 season and not come away with Bill severely hurting Jones. He was coming off a very solid rookie year and Bill decides to change the offensive system and hire a DC in Patricia to coach offense. Made no sense especially when the season started going south and Bill did nothing. Then this year, Bill spent the majority of his team building capital on defense leaving the offense in shambles on the Oline and bereft of any real talent at the skill positions despite having cap money to spend.

I brought this up on another thread but you can't dismiss Cassell learning from Brady for 3 years or the fact that he literally inherited a stacked team in 2008 facing one of the easiest schedules on top. He also had a legit OC in McDaniels. I could go on but really IMO it is apples to oranges in comparison ...
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Asking for a friend. If mac doesn't have the goods, just what was it that Bill ruined? (My friend says he's confused.)
 
aloyouis said:
I never said Mac wasn't somewhat to blame.

I do think Mac soldiered on in the face of adversity for a long time before he cracked. In fact, I think he made it further than most very young QB's would have made it given the same ridiculous disadvantages. in retrospect, Mac beating out Cam was the worst thing that could have happened for his career. Mac would have been far better off watching Cam get killed for a couple of seasons.

One only has to honestly consider what year 2 would have been had the Patriots provided even an average OL and a real OC. It is not hard to see Mac progressing rather than regressing. The GOAT chose not to provide his 2nd year QB with either of those always required (for QB and team success) parts of his team.

Maybe there is a 23 year old QB that could have handled the beatings both on the field, in the stands and in the press better, but I doubt there are many. Maybe Justin Fields does better running for his life. He and Mac have different positive characteristics.

Mac Jones was on a path to becoming a good or very good NFL QB. No QB does that alone. Brady sure as heck didn't. For all intents and purposes it was demanded of him that he accomplish it without an OL or a real OC. It was too much for him to handle. For who would it not be as a 23 year old 2nd year QB------> in Boston?

Yes, an argument can be made that a different QB could have survived. Who?

Bill failed this kid when he needed support by providing little. Bill was focused on the defense. It is what he loves. We have a great defense now. And no QB.
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Why do you keep defending Jones. He just another failed Bama QB. That never improved his weakness. On reads & accuracy on medium to 20 yard passes. I wish him Best of luck being a backup QB .
 
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3 Point Stan said:
It's difficult to look back at the Mac Jones era and feel that Bill (or the Patriots as an organization) ruined Mac Jones. You could easily ask, "Well, what about Matt Cassel?" (who the Patriots turned into a multi-millionaire). By contrast, I do feel Washington ruined RGIII's career, as did Indy with Andrew Luck, so it does happen.
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What about: Matt Cassel, Brian Hoyer, Jacoby Brisett, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jared Stidham. You mean to tell me, in 24 years with the team, and more than 40 QBs coming through, many of them going on to have long careers in the NFL - Mac Jones is the one Bill Belichick ruined? Bailey Zappe, with shittier talent around him, and a dramatically worse QB, did at least as well as Mac Jones, and didn't go crying about it if something went wrong.

Sorry, that makes no goddamned sense, unless you're an absolute shill for Mac Jones.
 
TommyD420 said:
What about: Matt Cassel, Brian Hoyer, Jacoby Brisett, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jared Stidham. You mean to tell me, in 24 years with the team, and more than 40 QBs coming through, many of them going on to have long careers in the NFL - Mac Jones is the one Bill Belichick ruined? Bailey Zappe, with shittier talent around him, and a dramatically worse QB, did at least as well as Mac Jones, and didn't go crying about it if something went wrong.

Sorry, that makes no goddamned sense, unless you're an absolute shill for Mac Jones.
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We know now who the shills were. :coffee:
 
Mazz22 said:
I think it was a combo. For sure Bill ruined him IMO but I also think Jones probably does not have the goods either. I am not sure how you can look back on the 2022 season and not come away with Bill severely hurting Jones. He was coming off a very solid rookie year and Bill decides to change the offensive system and hire a DC in Patricia to coach offense. Made no sense especially when the season started going south and Bill did nothing. Then this year, Bill spent the majority of his team building capital on defense leaving the offense in shambles on the Oline and bereft of any real talent at the skill positions despite having cap money to spend.

I brought this up on another thread but you can't dismiss Cassell learning from Brady for 3 years or the fact that he literally inherited a stacked team in 2008 facing one of the easiest schedules on top. He also had a legit OC in McDaniels. I could go on but really IMO it is apples to oranges in comparison ...
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You can;t help yourself! :rofl: Cassel's admirable season is now totally down to Tom Brady and his great mentoring :rofl:
 
king of kings said:
Why do you keep defending Jones.
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Mainly because people bash the guy when the results were predetermined. He is a player that was screwed over by the team. Plain and simple. I would be the same for ANYONE in the same situation. I think most people on here would do the same if it was a friend or a co-worker fucked over by their employer.

Yet, because this is the NFL, people feel permitted (or even obligated) to dismiss their own humanity. Some even seem to get off on it. They would rather BE RIGHT about the end result than understand how/why it happened. Who cares the amount of work and effort over years were expended "He's just another failed Bama QB". But WHY did he fail? In Mac's case he showed what he could do with Josh and a decent offensive line his rookie year. That simply can't be ignored, yet people do ignore it in order to be the football fan god and be right. That is teh simple and easy way. Congrats.

Not me. I want to know why the OFFENSE went from promising to dreadful. I want to know why Mac went from standing tall and delivering passes to afraid of his own shadow and my ego doesn't require me to forget what I witnessed in order to be a "smarter than you" football fan. The offense sucked because it was essentially ignored by the GOAT for reasons only he knows, and Mac has taken/is taking the beating (on the field and in the fans minds) for being set up to fail. Meanwhile the "smarter football fans" are making excuses for players that are clearly not committed and breaking laws. :shrug-n:

So, you asked and that is my answer. I'm tired of saying it.

We are past it now. Mac NEEDS to move on. Mayo needs to do better for the offense than the GOAT did. If he changes nothing except he brings in a vet QB he will simply get that vet an earlier retirement date.

I am on to the draft.
 
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Roberto71 said:
Another example of Tom's fine mentoring, was to Mentor Kraft to get rid of Jimmy.....
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Trading Jimmy was absolutely the right move unless you would prefer to only 5 rings instead of 6?
 
aloyouis said:
Mainly because people bash the guy when the results were predetermined. He is a player that was screwed over by the team. Plain and simple. I would be the same for ANYONE in the same situation. I think most people on here would do the same if it was a friend or a co-worker fucked over by their employer.

Yet, because this is the NFL, people feel permitted (or even obligated) to dismiss their own humanity. Some even seem to get off on it. They would rather BE RIGHT about the end result than understand how/why it happened. Who cares the amount of work and effort over years were expended "He's just another failed Bama QB". But WHY did he fail? In Mac's case he showed what he could do with Josh and a decent offensive line his rookie year. That simply can't be ignored, yet people do ignore it in order to be the football fan god and be right. That is teh simple and easy way. Congrats.

Not me. I want to know why the OFFENSE went from promising to dreadful. I want to know why Mac went from standing tall and delivering passes to afraid of his own shadow and my ego doesn't require me to forget what I witnessed in order to be a "smarter than you" football fan. The offense sucked because it was essentially ignored by the GOAT for reasons only he knows, and Mac has taken/is taking the beating (on the field and in the fans minds) for being set up to fail. Meanwhile the "smarter football fans" are making excuses for players that are clearly not committed and breaking laws. :shrug-n:

So, you asked and that is my answer. I'm tired of saying it.

We are past it now. Mac NEEDS to move on. Mayo needs to do better for the offense than the GOAT did. If he changes nothing except he brings in a vet QB he will simply get that vet an earlier retirement date.

I am on to the draft.
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He was just a rookie wonder. That NFL defenses figured out how to defend . In the last month of that season. Edelman said it best he kept making the same rookie mistakes .
"
This is a quarterback league," Edelman said on The Ryen Rusillo Podcast. "You have to have a quarterback that fits your system to win games. And right now Mac hasn't been developing at the rate that they want. He's still having rookie-type throws."


"This is a production business, ok? And everyone keeps on wanting to say, 'Oh, he's had three offensive coordinators,'" continued Edelman. "He's really only had two offensive coordinators. I had Billy O'Brien and Josh McDaniels. That's the same scheme. There's a couple of wrinkles here and there, but you're fundamentally doing the same things."
 
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