Mac Jones Is Our QB1

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TommyD420 said:
No one is buying Mac's playaction anymore, and I'm not sure why, and he's looking to run far too quickly. O-line play hasn't been good, but Mac has been giving up on plays way too easily, and running himself into sacks.

It's not that receivers aren't open, they are. He's missing them. I really think this is a Mac Jones problem, and not a Matt Patricia problem.
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The PA is almost non-existent. We all know that Patricia is going to try to run up the middle on first down. Hell, he is gonna run it up the middle on first down, in the Red Zone, with little JJ Taylor. Why? Because. That's why. Box is loaded and will stay that way until the play calling gets better. Patricia has never shown the ability to admit he is wrong. He ran himself out of town here and I had a first row seat. Universally hated for being a hard headed "my way or the highway" guy. Nobody could talk to him and when they tried he was a first class asshole. This was widely documented around here. Turns out the highway was for him.

Mac has regressed for sure. Playing for Matt Patricia is a majority of the reason (ankle didn't help) IMO.

I came into the season defending (and hoping) this coaching setup for one reason: Bill Belichick put in place. He is not infallible as Patrica as the OC has shown us.
 
Have heard that the screen game helps weak Olines. Much of that yesterday?
 
aloyouis said:
The PA is almost non-existent. We all know that Patricia is going to try to run up the middle on first down. Hell, he is gonna run it up the middle on first down, in the Red Zone, with little JJ Taylor. Why? Because. That's why. Box is loaded and will stay that way until the play calling gets better. Patricia has never shown the ability to admit he is wrong. He ran himself out of town here and I had a first row seat. Universally hated for being a hard headed "my way or the highway" guy. Nobody could talk to him and when they tried he was a first class asshole. This was widely documented around here. Turns out the highway was for him.

Mac has regressed for sure. Playing for Matt Patricia is a majority of the reason (ankle didn't help) IMO.

I came into the season defending (and hoping) this coaching setup for one reason: Bill Belichick put in place. He is not infallible as Patrica as the OC has shown us.
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Because of what I saw when Zappe was the QB, I'm really going to put this on Mac Jones himself instead of Patricia. I could be wrong, but they definitely called more playaction yesterday, and the Colts didn't buy it except for one time. Some of that is the replacements on the O-line. But when receivers are running open, and Jones is doing his best Eason imitation in the pocket, I have a tough time assigning all the blame on Matt Patricia, especially when I saw differently, when another QB was back there.
 
sg14 said:
Have heard that the screen game helps weak Olines. Much of that yesterday?
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No, and honestly, the last 3 years of screens has soured me on the concept for quite some time.
 
TommyD420 said:
Because of what I saw when Zappe was the QB, I'm really going to put this on Mac Jones himself instead of Patricia. I could be wrong, but they definitely called more playaction yesterday, and the Colts didn't buy it except for one time. Some of that is the replacements on the O-line. But when receivers are running open, and Jones is doing his best Eason imitation in the pocket, I have a tough time assigning all the blame on Matt Patricia, especially when I saw differently, when another QB was back there.
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Patricia called different games for when Zappe was in there. They max protected Zappe all the time. They gave him 2 steps drops designed to hide the O line deficiencies. That is what I am saying. Give Mac the same game plan he gave Zappe. Grow the game plan incrementally from there. They jumped too deep for the rest of the offense to handle. If the O line can't do it for Zappe then they can't do it for Mac either.

Cause and effect.
 
aloyouis said:
Patricia called different games for when Zappe was in there. They max protected Zappe all the time. They gave him 2 steps drops designed to hide the O line deficiencies. That is what I am saying. Give Mac the same game plan he gave Zappe. Grow the game plan incrementally from there. They jumped too deep for the rest of the offense to handle. If the O line can't do it for Zappe then they can't do it for Mac either.

Cause and effect.
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They were max protecting for Jones yesterday too several times, and he was still looking to run, that's what I'm saying. They're running a lot of the same stuff now, and Jones is still obviously struggling with it. They ran nothing vertical yesterday at all. The one play to Henry was the one time the Colts bit on playaction, and I'm glad Henry was that wide open, because I'm scared what would have happened if that had to be a tighter throw. He also damn near missed Stevenson on easy checkdowns yesterday, and it's a good thing that kid can catch with one hand.. Everything on a crosser is either way too early or way too late, and the WRs have to make amazing catch attempts on them.

The one thing Jones had that was superior to other QBs was his accuracy. That's no longer the case. If you want to say 'that's Patricia, that's the o-line, that's the receivers', that's fine, but Zappe's noodle-arm was at least accurate, Jones' accuracy is gone. Stevenson shouldn't have to be making one-handed stabs on checkdowns. Jakobi Meyers shouldn't have to be laying out on 12-yard comebacks.
 
HSanders said:
not sure if he's suddenly inaccurate. imo probably more a mental thing, wanting to see the throw...makes it late.
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The result is inaccuracy. I don't know if he's not capable of it, or if it's mental, so you're probably right, but the end result is the same.
 
TommyD420 said:
The result is inaccuracy. I don't know if he's not capable of it, or if it's mental, so you're probably right, but the end result is the same.
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i gotcha, wasn't disagreeing on his inaccuracy being real. one of his biggest strengths last year was his anticipation and ball placement. it's like this year is his rookie year.
 
TommyD420 said:
Sure, that's the idea. Now the coaching staff has to trust that the QB isn't going to throw it to the linebacker who just got smoked on the play, or the safety coming in late to cover.
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But that isn't what has been happening. The obvious 5-7 step drop throwing plays keeping 5 blockers in (most of the time) with Mac running fro his life are when it has happened. He has hit a few defensive players in the chest for sure, but what are the circumstance when those throws have happened. They haven't been in a clean pocket for the most part. Look at what SB winning QB Stafford has done this year playing behind a shit O line.

I am not saying Mac is blameless. I am saying he is making mistakes because they are setting him up to fail over and over and that is impacting his mental game, for sure.
 
aloyouis said:
But that isn't what has been happening. The obvious 5-7 step drop throwing plays keeping 5 blockers in (most of the time) with Mac running fro his life are when it has happened. He has hit a few defensive players in the chest for sure, but what are the circumstance when those throws have happened. They haven't been in a clean pocket for the most part. Look at what SB winning QB Stafford has done this year playing behind a shit O line.

I am not saying Mac is blameless. I am saying he is making mistakes because they are setting him up to fail over and over and that is impacting his mental game, for sure.
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I'm saying he's thrown 7 interceptions and it could easily have been 15. He threw none yesterday because, in my opinion, Patricia put the training wheels on after the first quarter.

When he does have time to throw, the passes are inaccurate. Defenses don't respect his playaction. They're stacking run again, because they don't need to cover the whole field, because Jones has been so inaccurate, the chances of giving up a big play are small. Some of this is injuries on the offensive line, some of this is trying to determine what works and what doesn't, still, halfway through the season.

And at this point, the calls aren't that different than they were last year, and they're getting poorer results, and I can point to the inaccuracy and bad-decision-making from the quarterback as to why. You want to put that entirely on the coaching, that's your choice, but I'm seeing serious deficiencies in the quarterback that weren't there last year, and truthfully, weren't there when Zappe was playing. He's by no means perfect, but he's not going to turn the ball over, and is going to hit open receivers. I find it difficult to blame Matt Patricia when Stevenson has to one-hand checkdowns multiple times, and receivers are laying out and contorting on simple crossing routes and comebacks. It's not a question of separation anymore. Receivers are open. Jones is either not seeing them or missing them. If a play creates wide open receivers, and the QB can't make the throw to get it to them (be it from pressure or decision making or inaccuracy), it's just sort of disingenuous to me to put that on the coach that called the play.

Again, that's just me, and what I'm seeing. And I've been a big Jones supporter, but I'm not going to pretend I'm not seeing Jones try to break the pocket on a max protect, and overshoot Thornton by 20 yards when a better throw is a TD. Or making Jakobi Meyers make a miracle catch on his back on a 12-yard comeback route. Or making Stevenson make one-hand stabs on a 2-yard checkdown. This is not what Jones was doing a year ago. His arm strength is better, but his accuracy is far, far worse.
 
TommyD420 said:
I'm saying he's thrown 7 interceptions and it could easily have been 15. He threw none yesterday because, in my opinion, Patricia put the training wheels on after the first quarter.

When he does have time to throw, the passes are inaccurate. Defenses don't respect his playaction. They're stacking run again, because they don't need to cover the whole field, because Jones has been so inaccurate, the chances of giving up a big play are small. Some of this is injuries on the offensive line, some of this is trying to determine what works and what doesn't, still, halfway through the season.

And at this point, the calls aren't that different than they were last year, and they're getting poorer results, and I can point to the inaccuracy and bad-decision-making from the quarterback as to why. You want to put that entirely on the coaching, that's your choice, but I'm seeing serious deficiencies in the quarterback that weren't there last year, and truthfully, weren't there when Zappe was playing. He's by no means perfect, but he's not going to turn the ball over, and is going to hit open receivers. I find it difficult to blame Matt Patricia when Stevenson has to one-hand checkdowns multiple times, and receivers are laying out and contorting on simple crossing routes and comebacks. It's not a question of separation anymore. Receivers are open. Jones is either not seeing them or missing them. If a play creates wide open receivers, and the QB can't make the throw to get it to them (be it from pressure or decision making or inaccuracy), it's just sort of disingenuous to me to put that on the coach that called the play.

Again, that's just me, and what I'm seeing. And I've been a big Jones supporter, but I'm not going to pretend I'm not seeing Jones try to break the pocket on a max protect, and overshoot Thornton by 20 yards when a better throw is a TD. Or making Jakobi Meyers make a miracle catch on his back on a 12-yard comeback route. Or making Stevenson make one-hand stabs on a 2-yard checkdown. This is not what Jones was doing a year ago. His arm strength is better, but his accuracy is far, far worse.
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I understand what you think it is. You have been clear.

I think you are wrong. I say the QB has been largely predicated by the terrible O Line play and the poor play calling. You say the poor play calling is in response to poor QB play. O Line? Accuracy? How well do you throw running for your life? When Patricia reverts to the Zappe offense the throws are accurate. The completion % is what it is and it is fine. You point to the Zappe offense as proof Mac has played poorly. I say it is proof the play calling had been poor when not in the Zappe offense.

We are repeating ourselves.

None of this changes the fact that Mac Jone is our QB1.
 
TommyD420 said:
I'm saying he's thrown 7 interceptions and it could easily have been 15. He threw none yesterday because, in my opinion, Patricia put the training wheels on after the first quarter.

When he does have time to throw, the passes are inaccurate. Defenses don't respect his playaction. They're stacking run again, because they don't need to cover the whole field, because Jones has been so inaccurate, the chances of giving up a big play are small. Some of this is injuries on the offensive line, some of this is trying to determine what works and what doesn't, still, halfway through the season.

And at this point, the calls aren't that different than they were last year, and they're getting poorer results, and I can point to the inaccuracy and bad-decision-making from the quarterback as to why. You want to put that entirely on the coaching, that's your choice, but I'm seeing serious deficiencies in the quarterback that weren't there last year, and truthfully, weren't there when Zappe was playing. He's by no means perfect, but he's not going to turn the ball over, and is going to hit open receivers. I find it difficult to blame Matt Patricia when Stevenson has to one-hand checkdowns multiple times, and receivers are laying out and contorting on simple crossing routes and comebacks. It's not a question of separation anymore. Receivers are open. Jones is either not seeing them or missing them. If a play creates wide open receivers, and the QB can't make the throw to get it to them (be it from pressure or decision making or inaccuracy), it's just sort of disingenuous to me to put that on the coach that called the play.

Again, that's just me, and what I'm seeing. And I've been a big Jones supporter, but I'm not going to pretend I'm not seeing Jones try to break the pocket on a max protect, and overshoot Thornton by 20 yards when a better throw is a TD. Or making Jakobi Meyers make a miracle catch on his back on a 12-yard comeback route. Or making Stevenson make one-hand stabs on a 2-yard checkdown. This is not what Jones was doing a year ago. His arm strength is better, but his accuracy is far, far worse.
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Precisely what I was saying in the other thread. He’s regressed, for a variety of reasons.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
TommyD420 said:
I'm saying he's thrown 7 interceptions and it could easily have been 15. He threw none yesterday because, in my opinion, Patricia put the training wheels on after the first quarter.

When he does have time to throw, the passes are inaccurate. Defenses don't respect his playaction. They're stacking run again, because they don't need to cover the whole field, because Jones has been so inaccurate, the chances of giving up a big play are small. Some of this is injuries on the offensive line, some of this is trying to determine what works and what doesn't, still, halfway through the season.

And at this point, the calls aren't that different than they were last year, and they're getting poorer results, and I can point to the inaccuracy and bad-decision-making from the quarterback as to why. You want to put that entirely on the coaching, that's your choice, but I'm seeing serious deficiencies in the quarterback that weren't there last year, and truthfully, weren't there when Zappe was playing. He's by no means perfect, but he's not going to turn the ball over, and is going to hit open receivers. I find it difficult to blame Matt Patricia when Stevenson has to one-hand checkdowns multiple times, and receivers are laying out and contorting on simple crossing routes and comebacks. It's not a question of separation anymore. Receivers are open. Jones is either not seeing them or missing them. If a play creates wide open receivers, and the QB can't make the throw to get it to them (be it from pressure or decision making or inaccuracy), it's just sort of disingenuous to me to put that on the coach that called the play.

Again, that's just me, and what I'm seeing. And I've been a big Jones supporter, but I'm not going to pretend I'm not seeing Jones try to break the pocket on a max protect, and overshoot Thornton by 20 yards when a better throw is a TD. Or making Jakobi Meyers make a miracle catch on his back on a 12-yard comeback route. Or making Stevenson make one-hand stabs on a 2-yard checkdown. This is not what Jones was doing a year ago. His arm strength is better, but his accuracy is far, far worse.
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Spot on
 
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