Mac Jones Is Our QB1

I agree 100%, and I'll go further and say that after nurturing him through the baby steps he put Brady in a position to leverage his strengths for years. After 2004 - which was still a team built on running, defense, and ball control - he wasn't really TFB until Moss/Welker/Stallworth came to town and he really found his mojo by dominating everyone around him. But Belichick worked overtime to try to make sure he had the weapons he needed to succeed in those early years. In those early years, even ignoring FA completely and just looking at the draft, he spent heavily in the early rounds on weapons for Brady and the offense. From 2002 through 2006 In just the first 3 rounds he took 2 first round TEs, Deion Branch and would-be deep threat Bethel Johnson in the 2nd, Mankins and Kaczur for protection and power. Lawrence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and TE David Thomas. In later years, yeah, he spent less on weapons, presumably on the theory that Brady would make players around him better.

I'll go so far as to say I'm not sure he gets to the same level of "TFB-ness" without the 2007 Superteam and the Spygate Revenge Tour. Does he have the same aura of "always being in the game" if Lynch runs for a score in the Seahawks Superbowl and that's a third straight 4th quarter SB loss? If that happens, does everyone have enough belief to come back from 28-3, or is his legacy losing 5 SBs after starting out his career with a 9-0 playoff record?


Agreed. And on the Patriots fans side, though that may be more a chicken-and-egg question.

Good stuff.

I'm pretty supportive of Brady, and I look forward to being able to be unabashedly so in the future when we're through this.

Thanks to a mix of talent, longevity of some superstars, and the ever-changing rules, there are a lot of high-performing QBs right now. I'm totally okay with him being at #20. In 2001, where would Brady have been after his first 2 starts? And even by the end of the year?



This is true, and for this we should all be very grateful. To be able to witness the ups and downs of a rising star QB'ing your team once is amazing. It's very possible that we're going to see it twice, essentially back to back.

And one other thing...
...for all the talk about Jones not having all the "arm talent" of the other first rounders, remember that of all the shortcomings (and it isn't like he's below average, just not extraordinary) he could have, this is the most likely to improve over time. A focused, pro-level strength and conditioning regimen will almost certainly increase his arm strength and whip over the next few years. The benefits of his touch passing, and his placement/precision/command will only be emphasized when he has more options because his arm has continued to mature and develop. I'm content to bring him along slowly, and uncork him strategically as needed both to win games and make sure his development isn't stifled psychologically by holding him back too much.
Great post, Flagg. The needle is definitely point up for Mac. Not sure if I even believe this or not, but as more and more get written about him, it's almost a good thing to have lost a game early on. He seems driven to succees as are the best players.
 
I agree 100%, and I'll go further and say that after nurturing him through the baby steps he put Brady in a position to leverage his strengths for years. After 2004 - which was still a team built on running, defense, and ball control - he wasn't really TFB until Moss/Welker/Stallworth came to town and he really found his mojo by dominating everyone around him. But Belichick worked overtime to try to make sure he had the weapons he needed to succeed in those early years. In those early years, even ignoring FA completely and just looking at the draft, he spent heavily in the early rounds on weapons for Brady and the offense. From 2002 through 2006 In just the first 3 rounds he took 2 first round TEs, Deion Branch and would-be deep threat Bethel Johnson in the 2nd, Mankins and Kaczur for protection and power. Lawrence Maroney, Chad Jackson, and TE David Thomas. In later years, yeah, he spent less on weapons, presumably on the theory that Brady would make players around him better.

I'll go so far as to say I'm not sure he gets to the same level of "TFB-ness" without the 2007 Superteam and the Spygate Revenge Tour. Does he have the same aura of "always being in the game" if Lynch runs for a score in the Seahawks Superbowl and that's a third straight 4th quarter SB loss? If that happens, does everyone have enough belief to come back from 28-3, or is his legacy losing 5 SBs after starting out his career with a 9-0 playoff record?


Agreed. And on the Patriots fans side, though that may be more a chicken-and-egg question.

Good stuff.

I'm pretty supportive of Brady, and I look forward to being able to be unabashedly so in the future when we're through this.

Thanks to a mix of talent, longevity of some superstars, and the ever-changing rules, there are a lot of high-performing QBs right now. I'm totally okay with him being at #20. In 2001, where would Brady have been after his first 2 starts? And even by the end of the year?



This is true, and for this we should all be very grateful. To be able to witness the ups and downs of a rising star QB'ing your team once is amazing. It's very possible that we're going to see it twice, essentially back to back.

And one other thing...
...for all the talk about Jones not having all the "arm talent" of the other first rounders, remember that of all the shortcomings (and it isn't like he's below average, just not extraordinary) he could have, this is the most likely to improve over time. A focused, pro-level strength and conditioning regimen will almost certainly increase his arm strength and whip over the next few years. The benefits of his touch passing, and his placement/precision/command will only be emphasized when he has more options because his arm has continued to mature and develop. I'm content to bring him along slowly, and uncork him strategically as needed both to win games and make sure his development isn't stifled psychologically by holding him back too much.
IMO, Jones is exactly where he should be and probably even a little ahead in terms of his development.
 
Something's gott be done, UT. I suppose I started this iteration by discussing whether or not Jones should be throwing further downfield. Most here think he should, and that BB should cut him loose. Fine. I just wanted to show the remarkable sameness to how BB treated his other first time QBs. Cassel and JimmyG had been in the system for a few years before starting, and Jacoby only started 2 games. Brady is the only one to compare to, as he started the rest of 2001, and how BB treated him is not just eerily similar to how he is treating Mac but he's actually giving Mac more credit.

I understand that merely mentioning Brady is enough to get a thread derailed, but Brady is part of our history and it is fair to look to BB's past to see how he treated a QB in nearly identical circumstances. The problem is Mazz uses every mention of Brady to post stuff like above, nothing to do with how BB treats Mac, just an excuse for her to post how good Brady is doing without BB. I don't read the Brady Forum. Would you consider keeping her there please? Just until Brady retires?

I know she tells me and others if we don't like it, to put her on ignore, and I did for a while, and I didn't see her posts, but the responses she generates pollutes every thread. She has a whole Brady forum to post the above link. Why here? I only read a half dozen or so threads here. The only one that doesn't get hi-jacked regularly is the Suicide Pool thread.

It's your website and it isn't working for many of the active posters here, and the current situation certainly isn't an enticement to stay for any newbie who happens to drop in.

Your website, your rules.
My philosophy hasn't changed with the site move. The site belongs to the members.

I will try to be more vigilant about keeping threads on track.
 
Though I'm not certain what any of this has to do with Mac Jones, here's an article I found on that with quotes:

"Tommy is extraordinarily appreciative of everything that happened during his New England career, and he's more than happy that he's moved on because it was pretty obvious that the Patriot regime felt that it was time for him to move on,"
"And frankly, it may well have been perfect for (Bill) Belichick to move on from him. On the other hand, I think the Tampa Bay Bucs are pretty happy that the decision was made in Foxboro that they didn't want to afford him or didn't want to keep him when his last contract came up."
"Damn right," he told Curran. "Damn right. Belichick wanted him out the door and last year he threw 56 touchdowns. I think that's a pretty good year."
"Very nostalgic," he said. "That was our home for 20 years. The fans embraced Tommy, the city embraced Tommy and the team embraced Tommy for a while. And so, when he comes home it's gonna be a real treat that he spent 20 years making his mark in Boston. We owe a lot to the Patriots and a lot to Boston.
"Like every phase in life, things move on. Our kids get older, our kids move on. They move out of the house, they go elsewhere. And that's kind of what it's like for Tommy right now where he's moved elsewhere and wherever he is, we support our kids, and Tommy's no different than the rest of us."

I expect the 'vindication' is both from the standpoint of those who felt he was done and could not play anymore, as well as those who felt he was a system QB who could not get it done outside of the confines of New England. Probably exacerbated by the number of teams who passed on him despite being freely available, choosing to stick with their starting QB. Regardless, I don't see how any of this is a "slam" on Bill Belichick or a venting of the spleen or anything like that, but to each their own.
Very little wrong with what he said, and totally on-brand.
Don't get all the head-shaking disappointment, responding to a baiting Curran question.
 
Very little wrong with what he said, and totally on-brand.
Don't get all the head-shaking disappointment, responding to a baiting Curran question.

Alex explains it a little differently. :coffee:

 
Stole this.
 

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Josh has a long history of calling a draw on 3rd and long and its always bugged the crap out of me.
I love the OC in Dallas - Moore. Would love to see him with us if we can ever pry him away.
 
Alex explains it a little differently. :coffee:

I appreciate """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Doctor""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Concussion Water's opinion, really I do. But perhaps he's projecting his own experiences here.
 
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