Mac Jones Is Our QB1

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Foxx said:
Sure, okay. I will comment here because you're correct, well thought out.

Can you help a fellow out and maybe explain the point(s) Breer utilized(s) to buttress his position and how they are the exact reasons for your optimism? I guess I don't understand that. TYIA

I can agree that Mac possesses the level of intelligence required to play the QB position, I see the way he plays the game. I guess I question if that is elite level though. Being he just struggled through the last half of the season, I think my skepticism is justified.

As an aside and a bit of a tangent, does his grimacing every time someone pretty much just breathes on him concern you at all?
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Your last sentence is so idiotically hyperbolic as to not even be deserving of a response, but here goes: as a Bills fan, why do you care? Honestly, your posts have every characteristic of someone who is really worried that Mac Jones is good now and going to be really good very shortly. It's as if you're trying to convince yourself of something you know is bullshit.
 
Phil Elliott said:
Your last sentence is so idiotically hyperbolic as to not even be deserving of a response, but here goes: as a Bills fan, why do you care? Honestly, your posts have every characteristic of someone who is really worried that Mac Jones is good now and going to be really good very shortly. It's as if you're trying to convince yourself of something you know is bullshit.
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Talk about Bingo.......
 
You know what? This is thread about Mac being our quarterback. It's not about any other quarterbacks.
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
Mac Jones isn't Andy Dalton. He'll be like TB12. Just wait...
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This is the most fanciful thing ever put to words. Jones is likely to be closer to the Red Rifle than the GOAT but you could say that about most quarterbacks. Brady's that extraordinary.

The real question is can Jones be like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert or Burrow? Because if he can't then you're likely not seeing another AFC conference championship game over the next decade.
 
SkiptoMyLou said:
Breer's points are used as a detriment to be surrounded by talent and excellence. I think if he was a very physically talented yet with questionable work ethic it would work as a good set of points. But Mac wasn't coddled into playing. He wasn't a star true freshman or anything of the sort. He was an afterthought scout QB in a QB rich group yet he fought his way into the starting role and thrived when he got the chance. It's almost as if it's a knock on him to have done everything correctly because of the team around him.

If he had struggled in NE without that star studded talent it would be a fair point, but he did just fine. I wouldn't call the Pats offense stellar by any means (except from the RBs possibly).

His struggles came at the hand of tough defenses, it wasn't against questionable teams. He dismantled any other team. Bills game was a top defense that had a jump on what the Pats wanted to do, and notably Mac really struggled there. No argument. He also struggled against the Colts, but eventually led a comeback that just fell short. Same exact story against a tough Dolphins defense. It wasn't pretty and he made rookie mistakes, but once again, instead of letting that influence his play, he instead pushed the ball and led another comeback that fell short.

In the Wild card, it might be hard to see given the complete utter dominance by the Bills offense, but Mac held his own within the game plan. The offense is not built to win a shootout. That said, he marched the ball several times, although it just lead to 17 points. He could have very easily mailed it in, but instead worked his way to two touchdowns. It's nothing stellar, but it shows that the kid is willing to fight instead of lowering his head and accepting defeat.

As far as him grimacing. I have no issue with it whatsoever considering his first 6 or so starts he was the most blitzed QB and took a pounding. But instead of wilting or getting happy feet, or making dumb decisions, he began to diagnose the blitzes and got rid of the ball quicker to the point that teams began to respect him and played more coverage.
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Solid reply Lou, thank you.

I think what Breer was pointing out was that those elements (talent, coaching, and infrastructure) having been in place, allowed MJ to get closer to his ceiling. I think that is a fair take, would you agree? To use an example, and since it is one I am quite familiar with, think it applies perfectly here, we could refer to JA's experience in college. I think it was pretty much agreed upon that JA had a world of talent but he didn't have Alabama coaching, nor the talent or infrastructure around him to help him get anywhere near where his ceiling was thought to be. And because he hadn't that support, there were genuine questions as to whether or not he would ever realize that ceiling or anything close to it. It was only when he got to the NFL that those things began to materialize around him that facilitated his ascension. As a result, he is much closer to his ceiling today than when he was in college. Where that applies to MJ is, he is much closer to his ceiling because of the support he had in college. Thus, it is thought by some that because of his play, he doesn't have much more to go to hit his respective ceiling.

Make sense?

As for holding his own within the game plan, that may be. But going forward, that game plan is going to have to change, considerably, if you guys are going to compete with the new guard that has taken over the AFC. That being, KC, Cincinnati, and Buffalo. Possibly the Chargers as well, but they have a number of items to clean up before they can be considered part of the rivalry that is going to exist within the AFC for the next decade or so.

The grimacing is a red flag for me. Though no one likes taking a hit, I'm sure, you don't see other QB's reacting like that. It would be one thing if he did it because of a hit here and there, but it happens anytime someone gets close enough to breathe on him. I'm of the opinion that one well placed, or misplaced if you like, hit and he will be done.
 
Phil Elliott said:
Your last sentence is so idiotically hyperbolic as to not even be deserving of a response, but here goes: as a Bills fan, why do you care? Honestly, your posts have every characteristic of someone who is really worried that Mac Jones is good now and going to be really good very shortly. It's as if you're trying to convince yourself of something you know is bullshit.
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I thought I replied to this but I don't see it so maybe it was deleted? Let me try again since your post is still standing. My previous response didn't return your ad-hominem attack so I'm not sure why it was removed.

It seems you like to attack the messenger and construct strawmen with ad hominem attacks. If it isn't worthy of a response, why the ad hominem?
 
Foxx said:
Solid reply Lou, thank you.

I think what Breer was pointing out was that those elements (talent, coaching, and infrastructure) having been in place, allowed MJ to get closer to his ceiling. I think that is a fair take, would you agree? To use an example, and since it is one I am quite familiar with, think it applies perfectly here, we could refer to JA's experience in college. I think it was pretty much agreed upon that JA had a world of talent but he didn't have Alabama coaching, nor the talent or infrastructure around him to help him get anywhere near where his ceiling was thought to be. And because he hadn't that support, there were genuine questions as to whether or not he would ever realize that ceiling or anything close to it. It was only when he got to the NFL that those things began to materialize around him that facilitated his ascension. As a result, he is much closer to his ceiling today than when he was in college. Where that applies to MJ is, he is much closer to his ceiling because of the support he had in college. Thus, it is thought by some that because of his play, he doesn't have much more to go to hit his respective ceiling.

Make sense?

As for holding his own within the game plan, that may be. But going forward, that game plan is going to have to change, considerably, if you guys are going to compete with the new guard that has taken over the AFC. That being, KC, Cincinnati, and Buffalo. Possibly the Chargers as well, but they have a number of items to clean up before they can be considered part of the rivalry that is going to exist within the AFC for the next decade or so.

The grimacing is a red flag for me. Though no one likes taking a hit, I'm sure, you don't see other QB's reacting like that. It would be one thing if he did it because of a hit here and there, but it happens anytime someone gets close enough to breathe on him. I'm of the opinion that one well placed, or misplaced if you like, hit and he will be done.
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If by that you mean that Breer alludes to Mac being more NFL ready because of his college upbringing then I completely agree. I'm not sure if that gets him towards his ceiling or not, because I don't feel like that is something we would be able to know as fans. To you he doesn't pass the eye test, but to me he does. I don't know where his ceiling is yet, but I feel we have a lot to be optimistic about because he has shown he can take coaching. He seems to have the intangibles that are needed to be a good QB in the NFL, and more importantly, what Belichick wants in a QB.

I think as a rookie that is all you can ask for. I imagine next year he will have to take more on, and I'm sure he will. That said, he will need more weapons if BB is planning to go more offense heavy in the coming years. Otherwise it'll be like young Brady where he was just asked to limit mistakes, take what the defense gives him, and take designated shots when called upon. Luckily with BB, Mac doesn't have to turn into a superstar overnight, because the game plan will be there to help bring him along. In fact, I don't think the offense is the issue barring a couple of upgrades -- the defense is what needs to really build from the ground up, but I digress.

To your last point, I feel like you might be reading too much into it. His play never changed whether he has gotten hit or not. If he braces for hits or makes faces while getting hit, it doesn't seem to change his progressions nor force him to make mistakes or even duck. He has not shied away from any shot, and this is having watched every single snap this year including pre-season.
 
Muse said:
And we have said, some of us, that we disagree. Time will tell. I don't need to read it. One can put in an article stats, facts and opinion, but on any given day in football things can change up or down. Just gonna agree to disagree with you.
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How can you take anyone seriously who claims to know ahead of time when a rookie has hit a ceiling? How can anyone know that this rookie cannot get stronger, cannot learn anything from coaching? It's so stupid it boggles my mind.
 
Foxx said:
I thought I replied to this but I don't see it so maybe it was deleted? Let me try again since your post is still standing. My previous response didn't return your ad-hominem attack so I'm not sure why it was removed.

It seems you like to attack the messenger and construct strawmen with ad hominem attacks. If it isn't worthy of a response, why the ad hominem?
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Jesus H Crist. Your team outplayed our team. Our QB played well but yours had the game of the year. Why the hell are you still here acting like a five-year-old? Move on. Your team is still in the playoffs. Why are you here ragging on and on about our team? Bills fans are generally real people. You are the first asshole Bills fan I've 'met.'
 
Darth Despot said:
Look guys, every time you feed a troll s/he grows stronger. They live off responses, If you just ignore them they die.
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Not really. They go away when a mod assclowns them. Sometimes (Hogfarmer) they spend a few months there and return reasonably civil.
 
There are times we write what we write to diffuse a post, counter and or bring a thread back on track


Mac Jones Is Our QB1 btw.
 
spacecrime said:
How can you take anyone seriously who claims to know ahead of time when a rookie has hit a ceiling? How can anyone know that this rookie cannot get stronger, cannot learn anything from coaching? It's so stupid it boggles my mind.
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It's moronic. It goes with the revisionist history now that has Tom Brady as actually being excellent in college and the fact he was not rated by any pro team and was picked at 199 is seen as an anomaly and he was in fact the GOAT from his first snap and everyone could see it. So ergo, this thinking goes, the idea that Mac Jones can be compared to Brady is ridiculous at this stage.

All viewed from the basis of looking back at a 20-year career history of Bradys!

It's actually so stupid it beggars belief.
 
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