Misuse and Regression of Mac Jones and How to Fix

[Grogan]

no, mac doesn't have the arm, size, running ability of allen. but allen didn't get better physical skills. that's not why he improved. nfl bustdom is littered with "omgzz11!!1!physical skillz" guys.

It's a he'll of a gamble. I have no doubt they are getting better, but ask yourself this, do you really want to see Patricia call the offense next season?

 

[Grogan]

Today's league has no patience. Like River said, Mac is going to look to get paid soon. IMO, Bill needs to decide on him one way or the other by next season as the 5th year option will be looming.

He's three seasons away from having to make that decision?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

He's three seasons away from having to make that decision?

Problem is the urgency is to win now.
BB is 70 yrs old.
DMac is about to retire.
MLB and NT are still huge holes.
OLine is a huge hole.
Too much wasted money is tied up in WRs and TEs.
By the time they fix the personnel Mac will be up for a big contract

 

[TommyD420]

Problem is the urgency is to win now.
BB is 70 yrs old.
DMac is about to retire.
MLD and NT are still huge holes.
OLine is a huge hole.
Too much wasted money is tied up in WRs and TEs.
By the time they fix the personnel Mac will be up for a big contract

Urgency in your mind to win now.

This isn't a win-now team. The vast core of this team is under-30. It's a rebuild. Expecting Super Bowls is unreasonable. Expecting playoffs at this point is unreasonable.

Repeating the same points that are either mind-numbingly stupid ('herp derp shotgun') or so universally agreed upon ('offensive line is bad'), that nobody responds to you, and yet, you continue to post the same shit, multiple posts, day after day. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. You're a bot, because you bot the same talking points post after post after post after post, that there's no point in responding.

We get it. Everyone agrees. They're still going to run shotgun, and Godchaux is going to be on the team the rest of the year. No matter if you post it 500 more times, or 5000 more times.

 

[Mazz22]

Urgency in your mind to win now.

This isn't a win-now team. The vast core of this team is under-30. It's a rebuild. Expecting Super Bowls is unreasonable. Expecting playoffs at this point is unreasonable.

Repeating the same points that are either mind-numbingly stupid ('herp derp shotgun') or so universally agreed upon ('offensive line is bad'), that nobody responds to you, and yet, you continue to post the same shit, multiple posts, day after day. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. You're a bot, because you bot the same talking points post after post after post after post, that there's no point in responding.

We get it. Everyone agrees. They're still going to run shotgun, and Godchaux is going to be on the team the rest of the year. No matter if you post it 500 more times, or 5000 more times.

No. It's Kraft's mind.

“I’m a Patriot fan, big time, first. More than anything, it bothers me that we haven’t been able to win a playoff game in the last three years,” Kraft said Tuesday at the NFL annual meeting, per ESPN’s Mike Reiss “After my family, there’s nothing more important to me than the New England Patriots and winning football games ... I’m not happy that we haven’t won a playoff game in three years. I think about that a lot.”

Robert Kraft bothered by Patriots not winning playoff game in last three years - Sports Illustrated

New England’s owner did express optimism about the team’s direction moving forward.

www.si.com

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Urgency in your mind to win now.

This isn't a win-now team. The vast core of this team is under-30. It's a rebuild. Expecting Super Bowls is unreasonable. Expecting playoffs at this point is unreasonable.

Repeating the same points that are either mind-numbingly stupid ('herp derp shotgun') or so universally agreed upon ('offensive line is bad'), that nobody responds to you, and yet, you continue to post the same shit, multiple posts, day after day. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. You're a bot, because you bot the same talking points post after post after post after post, that there's no point in responding.

We get it. Everyone agrees. They're still going to run shotgun, and Godchaux is going to be on the team the rest of the year. No matter if you post it 500 more times, or 5000 more times.

This is a rebuild year? Stop it with the crappy spin. Pats went to the playoffs last year. Both BB and Bob Kraft aren’t getting any younger. The Pats have a couple years , NOW, before Mac’s contract get expensive not to mention older guys leaving soon in DMac, Guy, Philips, Judon, Andrews, etc.
You might be fine with mediocrity but I’d like to see Belichick get a 7th ring before he retires.

 

[Grogan]

Agreed. Henry can be Mac’s security blanket. or Meyers or Bourne if given enough targets. The deep-ball guys are not reliable enough for gotta-get-it 3rd downs.
BB noted failures on 3rd down and this is part of the problem. No go-to guys or plays on 3rd down and goal line.

Of course, there's no go to guy on 3rd down

This is a rebuild year? Stop it with the crappy spin. Pats went to the playoffs last year. Both BB and Bob Kraft aren’t getting any younger. The Pats have a couple years , NOW, before Mac’s contract get expensive not to mention older guys leaving soon in DMac, Guy, Philips, Judon, Andrews, etc.
You might be fine with mediocrity but I’d like to see Belichick get a 7th ring before he retires.

Guys leave and retire every year, the core of this team hasn't even been assembled yet. While I disagree entirely with Bill's approach with the offensive coaching, this has always been a rebuild.

 

[Mazz22]

Of course, there's no go to guy on 3rd down

Guys leave and retire every year, the core of this team hasn't even been assembled yet. While I disagree entirely with Bill's approach with the offensive coaching, this has always been a rebuild.

3 year rebuild so far and last place in the division. What's the plan? 6 years?

 

[chevss454]

This is a rebuild year? Stop it with the crappy spin. Pats went to the playoffs last year. Both BB and Bob Kraft aren’t getting any younger. The Pats have a couple years , NOW, before Mac’s contract get expensive not to mention older guys leaving soon in DMac, Guy, Philips, Judon, Andrews, etc.
You might be fine with mediocrity but I’d like to see Belichick get a 7th ring before he retires.

We'd all like to see another ring but, like it or not, that's not happening this year and we knew that entering the season. This is a rebuild year.

 

[Mazz22]

We'd all like to see another ring but, like it or not, that's not happening this year and we knew that entering the season. This is a rebuild year.

This is revisionist history IMO. The team was 10-7 last year with Mac as a rookie. Most of us were excited about his potential to have a second year leap until the offensive coaches were hired. But even despite the coaching, many here including you were thinking the team would be better than last year even if the record was the similar. You are now calling this a rebuild IMO because Mac has regressed and the offense is awful. That can't be swept away with "this is a rebuild." And if you reply that Mac has not regressed but it is the team around him and the coaching than this is a lost season IMO in the rebuild toward contending for a ring and may ultimately prove to be a reset on the rebuild if Mac/O does not improve.

 

[TommyD420]

3 year rebuild so far and last place in the division. What's the plan? 6 years?

Maybe. I'll still be here.

'Last place in the division' is a cute way of framing a 6-5 team like they're 2-9, when they're actually 6-5, and would be leading the NFC South.

Not the 'cute' way, the 'Boston Sports Media' way.

I've been super-consistent going back to the preseason. I said if they weren't 6-3 at worst at the bye, changes need to be made, and changes were made previous to that, and I think they will be ongoing and throughout the offseason. They're not going to win a title, they were never going to win a title or compete for one in any realistic way, but they are close, and there are good things in place for years to come, that's what a rebuild looks like.

The fact that they are winning at all, and not tanking, is a testament to the talent on the team and, yes, the coaching staff. The crying about JC Jackson, the crying about Steph Gilmore (who folks like yourself wanted out of here year 1), and the fact that the Patriots have vastly improved their team speed on defense has made them one of the better defensive units in the league, and they are also young.

You can either be a fan of the team, or not - but pretending they were a championship caliber team last year or this year is just unreasonable. Championship-caliber teams beat the Ravens, they don't shit the bed against the Bears, and they find a way to win in Minnesota. That's not this.

 

[MacJones_Fan]

New member here and as my handle states, I'm a Mac Jones fan and life long Alabama fan.

I am not as familiar with the team as most of you are, but from my observations since following the Pats the last two years, it seems the change in OC and lack of talent at WR hasn't helped Jones. Coming out of college a lot of the knock on Mac was his success was due to all the talented WR's around him, which I agree with. But let's be honest, outside of a very few QB's over the history of the game, what quarterback's success doesn't hinge on the talent level of their WR's? Look at Tua at Miami for example, the "experts" were already considering him a bust then the moment they upgrade the talent at WR the narrative on him changed and the guy is now dropping big numbers almost every game. Just an observation from an outsider.

*Add- The offensive line this season hasn't helped anyone's cause either

 

[HSanders]

New member here and as my handle states, I'm a Mac Jones fan and life long Alabama fan.

I am not as familiar with the team as most of you are, but from my observations since following the Pats the last two years, it seems the change in OC and lack of talent at WR hasn't helped Jones. Coming out of college a lot of the knock on Mac was his success was due to all the talented WR's around him, which I agree with. But let's be honest, outside of a very few QB's over the history of the game, what quarterback's success doesn't hinge on the talent level of their WR's? Look at Tua at Miami for example, the "experts" were already considering him a bust then the moment they upgrade the talent at WR the narrative on him changed and the guy is now dropping big numbers almost every game. Just an observation from an outsider.

*Add- The offensive line this season hasn't helped anyone's cause either

Nice to have you aboard.

 

[TommyD420]

New member here and as my handle states, I'm a Mac Jones fan and life long Alabama fan.

I am not as familiar with the team as most of you are, but from my observations since following the Pats the last two years, it seems the change in OC and lack of talent at WR hasn't helped Jones. Coming out of college a lot of the knock on Mac was his success was due to all the talented WR's around him, which I agree with. But let's be honest, outside of a very few QB's over the history of the game, what quarterback's success doesn't hinge on the talent level of their WR's? Look at Tua at Miami for example, the "experts" were already considering him a bust then the moment they upgrade the talent at WR the narrative on him changed and the guy is now dropping big numbers almost every game. Just an observation from an outsider.

*Add- The offensive line this season hasn't helped anyone's cause either

The Patriots have plenty of talent at WR and TE and RB. They've won with far, far less. They're not making Mac Jones hit linebackers in between the numbers. Last few weeks have been better, because the offense has the training wheels on. Even last week, two of the three sacks given up were ones that Jones walked into for no reason, with open receivers to throw to.

Jones has to figure out what he's seeing on the field, and hopefully that's trending in the right direction. This isn't a 'lack of weapons' issue anymore.

 

[MacJones_Fan]

The Patriots have plenty of talent at WR and TE and RB. They've won with far, far less. They're not making Mac Jones hit linebackers in between the numbers. Last few weeks have been better, because the offense has the training wheels on. Even last week, two of the three sacks given up were ones that Jones walked into for no reason, with open receivers to throw to.

Jones has to figure out what he's seeing on the field, and hopefully that's trending in the right direction. This isn't a 'lack of weapons' issue anymore.

I agree with the talent at RB and TE, but I don't see anything close to a Jaylen Waddle, Justin Jefferson, or Stefon Diggs on this roster at WR or a true "WR1". The pats won with "far, far, less" because they had the greatest quarterback of all time. Again, I'm an "outsider" fan, but the knock on the Pats for years has been Bill B refusal to invest in the WR position. This group of WR's maybe an upgrade from what the Pats are USED to having in the past (pre-Jones), but they are far from being considered "plenty of talent".

 

[Gumpboy45]

I agree with the talent at RB and TE, but I don't see anything close to a Jaylen Waddle, Justin Jefferson, or Stefon Diggs on this roster at WR or a true "WR1". The pats won with "far, far, less" because they had the greatest quarterback of all time. Again, I'm an "outsider" fan, but the knock on the Pats for years has been Bill B refusal to invest in the WR position. This group of WR's maybe an upgrade from what the Pats are USED to having in the past (pre-Jones), but they are far from being considered "plenty of talent".

And here we ago again

 

[O.Z.O.]

I agree with the talent at RB and TE, but I don't see anything close to a Jaylen Waddle, Justin Jefferson, or Stefon Diggs on this roster at WR or a true "WR1". The pats won with "far, far, less" because they had the greatest quarterback of all time. Again, I'm an "outsider" fan, but the knock on the Pats for years has been Bill B refusal to invest in the WR position. This group of WR's maybe an upgrade from what the Pats are USED to having in the past (pre-Jones), but they are far from being considered "plenty of talent".

so, we're talking about not having WR1 talent..

...the Bucs are 5-6 with Mike Evans AND Chris Godwin AND the GOAT, hard to get more elite talent than that

 

[jayShomp]

so, we're talking about not having WR1 talent..

...the Bucs are 5-6 with Mike Evans AND Chris Godwin AND the GOAT, hard to get more elite talent than that

I know the game has changed but still have to mention Brady had Moss and Welker, one of the best duos ever, no Super Bowls.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

New member here and as my handle states, I'm a Mac Jones fan and life long Alabama fan.

I am not as familiar with the team as most of you are, but from my observations since following the Pats the last two years, it seems the change in OC and lack of talent at WR hasn't helped Jones. Coming out of college a lot of the knock on Mac was his success was due to all the talented WR's around him, which I agree with. But let's be honest, outside of a very few QB's over the history of the game, what quarterback's success doesn't hinge on the talent level of their WR's? Look at Tua at Miami for example, the "experts" were already considering him a bust then the moment they upgrade the talent at WR the narrative on him changed and the guy is now dropping big numbers almost every game. Just an observation from an outsider.

*Add- The offensive line this season hasn't helped anyone's cause either

Absolutely

Mac is the real deal. A field general QB who almost broke the rookie completion% record last year and made the pro bowl.

It’s been the OLine, playcalls, and offensive staff. Mac has gone backwards under Joe Judge, Rothstein, and Patricia. Mac is not a chuck it deep vertical passer behind a broken OLine, he’s a lethal quick strike cerebral QB

 

[O.Z.O.]

I know the game has changed but still have to mention Brady had Moss and Welker, one of the best duos ever, no Super Bowls.

He got two shots at it them