Misuse and Regression of Mac Jones and How to Fix

3 year rebuild so far and last place in the division. What's the plan? 6 years?
Seasons not over yet. I said at the beginning of the season that this year is all on Bill and that in the end he needs to be held accountable, so I'm going to hold off on lambasting him until the final results are in. Yes we are in last place, but still in the playoff hunt, in one weekend, we can go from last to tied for second, in two we could literally go to 1st.. This team has problems no doubt, but it's also made strides, it hasn't been the complete shit show the talking heads predicted at the beginning of the season, they've been in almost every game. Now Bill's decision to have Patricia and Judge run the offense may prove to be the fatal flaw of the season, and I believe it ultimately will be what ends our season, but that doesn't necessarily make the re build a failure. You seem to have no balance in your assessment of what a rebuild is, in year two they played competivily and got into the playoffs while starting a rookie qb. In year three as of now we have a winning record, despite losing our starting qb, have played well enough to be in most games, and the general talent level is getting better in my opinion. I have no problem ripping Bill for bad decisions, but I have hard time taking you seriously when it seems like you have an agenda to trash Bill no matter what the situation.
 
Seasons not over yet. I said at the beginning of the season that this year is all on Bill and that in the end he needs to be held accountable, so I'm going to hold off on lambasting him until the final results are in. Yes we are in last place, but still in the playoff hunt, in one weekend, we can go from last to tied for second, in two we could literally go to 1st.. This team has problems no doubt, but it's also made strides, it hasn't been the complete shit show the talking heads predicted at the beginning of the season, they've been in almost every game. Now Bill's decision to have Patricia and Judge run the offense may prove to be the fatal flaw of the season, and I believe it ultimately will be what ends our season, but that doesn't necessarily make the re build a failure. You seem to have no balance in your assessment of what a rebuild is, in year two they played competivily and got into the playoffs while starting a rookie qb. In year three as of now we have a winning record, despite losing our starting qb, have played well enough to be in most games, and the general talent level is getting better in my opinion. I have no problem ripping Bill for bad decisions, but I have hard time taking you seriously when it seems like you have an agenda to trash Bill no matter what the situation.

I don't put a lot of stock into what the "talking heads" say, and the ones I do are strictly former players now turned analysts. But I don't think I can remember one former player, now turned analyst that didn't raise the red flags when Bill went into the "I don't put much into titles" spill when the offensive coordinator position was brought up during the preseason. It would be one thing if the two people that the conversation evolved around were well-established, successful offensive coordinators/minds that Bill was trying to pick from, but that wasn't the case. One of them had never called an offensive play in his life because he had only been on the defensive side of the ball and the other guy, though had experience on the offensive side never had been an OC. So whatever problems the players are bringing to the offensive issues, I do wonder how much of it is truly rooted in the lack of experience and learning curve that the two "I don't put much into titles" coaches are bringing to the table. Because let's not kid ourselves, designing an offensive game plan and calling plays in a game isn't easy and it isn't something that just anyone can do.
 
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Seasons not over yet. I said at the beginning of the season that this year is all on Bill and that in the end he needs to be held accountable, so I'm going to hold off on lambasting him until the final results are in. Yes we are in last place, but still in the playoff hunt, in one weekend, we can go from last to tied for second, in two we could literally go to 1st.. This team has problems no doubt, but it's also made strides, it hasn't been the complete shit show the talking heads predicted at the beginning of the season, they've been in almost every game. Now Bill's decision to have Patricia and Judge run the offense may prove to be the fatal flaw of the season, and I believe it ultimately will be what ends our season, but that doesn't necessarily make the re build a failure. You seem to have no balance in your assessment of what a rebuild is, in year two they played competivily and got into the playoffs while starting a rookie qb. In year three as of now we have a winning record, despite losing our starting qb, have played well enough to be in most games, and the general talent level is getting better in my opinion. I have no problem ripping Bill for bad decisions, but I have hard time taking you seriously when it seems like you have an agenda to trash Bill no matter what the situation.
Perhaps we have different definitions then of a rebuild. What I see is a team that is uncertain if the QB they drafted with the 15th pick overall is the guy. Full stop. Any "rebuild" in today's league begins and ends with the QB. Hopefully we all can agree on that after the Newton horror show we witnessed 2 years ago. The QB's future is in question precisely because Bill hired incompetent coaches at the offensive positions in the second year of his development. The Patriots have been a middler team now for 3 seasons. If you want to feel good about being "competitive" in games that the team should have won than that is your prerogative. I know many here just want to enjoy the ride whether the team ever contends for a ring again. That's not me. I have a higher standard given the 2+ decades of excellence we all got to enjoy. If Mac ends up not being the guy either because of his play or Bill not wanting to pay then the reset begins all over again. There are some good pieces on this team but there is also many holes too. That being said, the last 2 drafts look very solid so that is a pretty good start. We will see where this season ends up. I agree with you that the fatal flaw of the season will be the coaching which is stunning to say about a Bill Belichick coached team.
 
3 years is a pretty long rebuild for the greatest football mind ever……..
 
Perhaps we have different definitions then of a rebuild. What I see is a team that is uncertain if the QB they drafted with the 15th pick overall is the guy. Full stop. Any "rebuild" in today's league begins and ends with the QB. Hopefully we all can agree on that after the Newton horror show we witnessed 2 years ago. The QB's future is in question precisely because Bill hired incompetent coaches at the offensive positions in the second year of his development. The Patriots have been a middler team now for 3 seasons. If you want to feel good about being "competitive" in games that the team should have won than that is your prerogative. I know many here just want to enjoy the ride whether the team ever contends for a ring again. That's not me. I have a higher standard given the 2+ decades of excellence we all got to enjoy. If Mac ends up not being the guy either because of his play or Bill not wanting to pay then the reset begins all over again. There are some good pieces on this team but there is also many holes too. That being said, the last 2 drafts look very solid so that is a pretty good start. We will see where this season ends up. I agree with you that the fatal flaw of the season will be the coaching which is stunning to say about a Bill Belichick coached team.

100%! The game has evolved to where the entire team's success hinges on this one position. Certainly, a team can still be "competitive" with an average quarterback, but odds are a wild card spot in the playoffs will probably be the best you're going to consistently do. But if a team wants to make deep runs into the playoffs and compete for a SB, the quarterback position has to be well above average.
 
After a 20 year run with an ancient core? No it's not.
The ancient core is on him and the awful drafting. He has been the GM the entire time.
 
Alright, we’ll let me ask all the ardent BB defenders.

When is this rebuild finally considered over?
 
Going on past history, after this season. Especially with the cap space available next year.
That is looking like a high bar. We'll see. Hopefully the money is spent well.
 
I don't put a lot of stock into what the "talking heads" say, and the ones I do are strictly former players now turned analysts. But I don't think I can remember one former player, now turned analyst that didn't raise the red flags when Bill went into the "I don't put much into titles" spill when the offensive coordinator position was brought up during the preseason. It would be one thing if the two people that the conversation evolved around were well-established, successful offensive coordinators/minds that Bill was trying to pick from, but that wasn't the case. One of them had never called an offensive play in his life because he had only been on the defensive side of the ball and the other guy, though had experience on the offensive side never had been an OC. So whatever problems the players are bringing to the offensive issues, I do wonder how much of it is truly rooted in the lack of experience and learning curve that the two "I don't put much into titles" coaches are bringing to the table. Because let's not kid ourselves, designing an offensive game plan and calling plays in a game isn't easy and it isn't something that just anyone can do.
I don't think even the most optimistic of us would say Bill's choice for offensive play callers has worked. It hasn't, but here we are at 6-5 with the opportunity to take a major jump up the standings on Thursday. So my main point that I was trying to make to Mazz is that you can't trash Bill just yet, as much as he wants to. He may be right, and this may be the last gasp for the season and if the team does collapse, then sure get out your pitchforks. On the other hand, what happens if this team goes out and beats the Bills Thursday? What if they finish strong and do get back into the playoffs, if you look around the league it's not a pipe dream, it's possible. I'm just not willing to call the rebuild a failure because of some agenda Mazz has against Bill.
 
Perhaps we have different definitions then of a rebuild. What I see is a team that is uncertain if the QB they drafted with the 15th pick overall is the guy. Full stop. Any "rebuild" in today's league begins and ends with the QB. Hopefully we all can agree on that after the Newton horror show we witnessed 2 years ago. The QB's future is in question precisely because Bill hired incompetent coaches at the offensive positions in the second year of his development. The Patriots have been a middler team now for 3 seasons. If you want to feel good about being "competitive" in games that the team should have won than that is your prerogative. I know many here just want to enjoy the ride whether the team ever contends for a ring again. That's not me. I have a higher standard given the 2+ decades of excellence we all got to enjoy. If Mac ends up not being the guy either because of his play or Bill not wanting to pay then the reset begins all over again. There are some good pieces on this team but there is also many holes too. That being said, the last 2 drafts look very solid so that is a pretty good start. We will see where this season ends up. I agree with you that the fatal flaw of the season will be the coaching which is stunning to say about a Bill Belichick coached team.
I only have one simple response to this. How did the Dolphins feel about Tua this time last year? Were they sure about their QB? Was anyone talking about MVP? Was anyone even thinking Tua could be a middling QB? We don't have the answers yet and if you think you do you're wrong.
 


I only have one simple response to this. How did the Dolphins feel about Tua this time last year? Were they sure about their QB? Was anyone talking about MVP? Was anyone even thinking Tua could be a middling QB? We don't have the answers yet and if you think you do you're wrong.

an example though of how much coaching swings things. the Pats offensive staff isn’t the Right Stuff. dolphins fixed it with totally new staff
 
an example though of how much coaching swings things. the Pats offensive staff isn’t the Right Stuff. dolphins fixed it with totally new staff

They brought in a guy who knew what to do with Tua's talents and how to best maximize them. That's what separates good OC's from mediocre and bad ones.
 
I only have one simple response to this. How did the Dolphins feel about Tua this time last year? Were they sure about their QB? Was anyone talking about MVP? Was anyone even thinking Tua could be a middling QB? We don't have the answers yet and if you think you do you're wrong.

It also helps when you have an explosive player like Waddle, then it REALLY helps when you get two of them (Tyreek Hill). My take is, if Bill B deems Mac Jones "his guy" then get the right fit at OC, attempt to add ONE explosive WR (preferably on a rookie contract) and hit the ground the running...errr...PASSING. This is all assuming the OL isn't a problem going forward.

Waddle's Stats by Year
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