More Brady talk split out from the Mac Jones thread

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bmooney54

bmooney54

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spacecrime said:
Wow! This is the same stuff I heard about a week before the draft from Kurt Warner and others. I can't believe how fortunate we are to have Jones to follow Brady. This is the best 1-2 QB punch ever, way better even than Montana Young. Yes it's early for Jones, but that's the point. He's doing this as a rookie. Steve Young did start as a rookie, Brady didn't. Montana played one game as a rook (and lost it). Manning started all 16 games, but Jones has already equaled Manning's 3 wins on his rookie season.

There's a LOT of Jones hype and ball washing going on, but it's all deserved IMO. Yeah, some still whine about arm strength, but that's what haters and morons said about Brady, even after three superbowl wins. Arm strength does not trump accuracy and football smarts, otherwise Rohan Davey would have taken Brady's job in 2002.

The sun shines brightly on our future IMO.
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He needs to hang some skins on the wall before we name him a hunter. Montana/Young and Favre/Rogers both clocked rings. Our one was so much better, it gives our two some leeway to still have a good 1-2 punch. Once he gets a ring this year, I'll go along with you. :coffee:
 
bmooney54 said:
He needs to hang some skins on the wall before we name him a hunter. Montana/Young and Favre/Rogers both clocked rings. Our one was so much better, it gives our two some leeway to still have a good 1-2 punch. Once he gets a ring this year, I'll go along with you. :coffee:
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I never bought into that logic, though it was fun to tweak Colts fans until Peyton got a ring. He wasn't as good as Brady before 2006 but he was as close as anyone got and better than all the rest.

I just think it's backwards to evaluate a player based on a team's performance. Maybe in basketball but not football or baseball or hockey.

Warren Moon, Archie Manning, YA Tittle, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly. Fran Tarkington. And on and on. So many great QBs with crappy coaching and crappy teams.
 
spacecrime said:
I never bought into that logic, though it was fun to tweak Colts fans until Peyton got a ring. He wasn't as good as Brady before 2006 but he was as close as anyone got and better than all the rest.

I just think it's backwards to evaluate a player based on a team's performance. Maybe in basketball but not football or baseball or hockey.

Warren Moon, Archie Manning, YA Tittle, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly. Fran Tarkington. And on and on. So many great QBs with crappy coaching and crappy teams.
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I somewhat agree, but Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, etc, had HOF coaches. Warren Moon was very likely blackballed a bit due to the fact he is black. He had no business coming out of Washington like that, being that good and being directed to the CFL. He threw one of the most beautiful balls I can think of. Arguably the best deep ball thrower in memory.

Archie Manning, yes. Played in a god awful environment on a crap team.

The problem with the first 3 QBs listed above is they were in the weaker conference at the time they played. Tarkenton ran into Miami, Oakland and Pitt in the 70s. Marino ran into SF, and whoever else that overrated Elway ran into like the Giants and Skins.

Kelly ran into the Skins and Cowboys. They're all HOFers for good reason, but as gamers they weren't that. How Don Shula gets away with never winning 1 ring with Marino is beyond me. His career is as tied to George Young as much as anything. Shula was not a great talent evaluator at all.

People come down on BB for that and I just laugh and think of Don Shula.
 
spacecrime said:
I never bought into that logic, though it was fun to tweak Colts fans until Peyton got a ring. He wasn't as good as Brady before 2006 but he was as close as anyone got and better than all the rest.

I just think it's backwards to evaluate a player based on a team's performance. Maybe in basketball but not football or baseball or hockey.

Warren Moon, Archie Manning, YA Tittle, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly. Fran Tarkington. And on and on. So many great QBs with crappy coaching and crappy teams.
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What a great take. Kind of refreshing.

I flinch a bit at the "a QB will have to get 7 rings before they can even be in the conversation" argument. I think Brady is the GOAT by a mile - but not because of the rings. He DID also have the GOAT coach, and very well-constructed teams. And even w/ that, it takes a few bounces to get that many rings. I think Peyton had some bad luck at times (and the worst luck was playing in the era of BB & Brady).

A lot of great QB's just didn't have great situations. Brady does have that extra bit of ice water that puts him over the top - the only guy I've seen w/ that kind of late game cool is MJ. Maybe Montana to an extent, but just because of the John Candy comment in the SB.
 
TheColtGuy said:
sWhat a great take. Kind of refreshing.

I flinch a bit at the "a QB will have to get 7 rings before they can even be in the conversation" argument. I think Brady is the GOAT by a mile - but not because of the rings. He DID also have the GOAT coach, and very well-constructed teams. And even w/ that, it takes a few bounces to get that many rings. I think Peyton had some bad luck at times (and the worst luck was playing in the era of BB & Brady).

A lot of great QB's just didn't have great situations. Brady does have that extra bit of ice water that puts him over the top - the only guy I've seen w/ that kind of late game cool is MJ. Maybe Montana to an extent, but just because of the John Candy comment in the SB.
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I have to chuckle a bit at the "he is the GOAT but not because of the 7 rings." It is precisely because of the 7 rings and his other post-season accomplishments that is the unanimous GOAT. That being said, I do agree that future QBs will not necessarily have to win 7 rings to get in the conversation but I think what is monumentally difficult is to win anything close to it in the cap/FA era.

Think about this. In the last 25+ years since the cap/FA came into play, no QB has won 3 rings. Some count Aikman but his Cowboys were constructed pre-cap/FA and of course fell off the map in the mid-90swhen the cap/FA were in full swing. Then you have Peyton who played in 4 and won 2. Ben played in 3 and won 2 and then Eli with his 2. No other QBs have won more than 1 - Rodgers, Brees both have one and only played in one. Wilson played in 2 but only won 1. Then of course you have Mahomes who had the best 3 year run of any young QB and now the wheels are coming off in KC. The typical run in the NFL is 3-5 years in the cap/era with the biggest factor of its window being the QB getting his massive deal after being on the rookie deal.

I was having a conversation with a friend recently who is a Jete fan, lives on Long Island. He told me that Brady has absolutely destroyed the NFL and I agree with him. The expectation for young QBs is outrageous when you look at what they have to achieve to even get to half of Brady's resume. That being said, I do think it will be fascinating to watch to see what young gun can actually make a legit run at it.
 
spacecrime said:
I just think it's backwards to evaluate a player based on a team's performance. Maybe in basketball but not football or baseball or hockey.
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There is a reason QBs carry a W-L record. They control the outcome of a game more than any other position in all of team sports.
 
spacecrime said:
Warren Moon, Archie Manning, YA Tittle, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly. Fran Tarkington. And on and on. So many great QBs with crappy coaching and crappy teams.
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I disagree about Archie Manning being in that group. He was never a great QB. Great players elevate the players around them. Manning's teams were crappy because of his presence on them.
 
Mazz22 said:
I was having a conversation with a friend recently who is a Jete fan, lives on Long Island. He told me that Brady has absolutely destroyed the NFL and I agree with him. The expectation for young QBs is outrageous when you look at what they have to achieve to even get to half of Brady's resume. That being said, I do think it will be fascinating to watch to see what young gun can actually make a legit run at it.
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Ha - I know EXACTLY what he means by that. From a certain perspective, Brady has ruined the NFL. He just looms over everything; the comparison seems extremely unfair to very talented young players, like Mahomes. He's been lighting up the league, but every word written about him ends up w/ some variation of, 'but Brady...."

He kind of became bigger than the game. It's an old movie, but fans of the original "Rollerball" flick can see some similarity in the circumstances.
 
PatsFan09 said:
Show me in a QBs stats where you can find W-L.

Oddly, Pro Football, NFL.com, etc, don’t list them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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Profootballreference.com carries that statistic. It's the preeminent site for stats mavens.
 
Mazz22 said:
I have to chuckle a bit at the "he is the GOAT but not because of the 7 rings." It is precisely because of the 7 rings and his other post-season accomplishments that is the unanimous GOAT. That being said, I do agree that future QBs will not necessarily have to win 7 rings to get in the conversation but I think what is monumentally difficult is to win anything close to it in the cap/FA era.

Think about this. In the last 25+ years since the cap/FA came into play, no QB has won 3 rings. Some count Aikman but his Cowboys were constructed pre-cap/FA and of course fell off the map in the mid-90swhen the cap/FA were in full swing. Then you have Peyton who played in 4 and won 2. Ben played in 3 and won 2 and then Eli with his 2. No other QBs have won more than 1 - Rodgers, Brees both have one and only played in one. Wilson played in 2 but only won 1. Then of course you have Mahomes who had the best 3 year run of any young QB and now the wheels are coming off in KC. The typical run in the NFL is 3-5 years in the cap/era with the biggest factor of its window being the QB getting his massive deal after being on the rookie deal.

I was having a conversation with a friend recently who is a Jete fan, lives on Long Island. He told me that Brady has absolutely destroyed the NFL and I agree with him. The expectation for young QBs is outrageous when you look at what they have to achieve to even get to half of Brady's resume. That being said, I do think it will be fascinating to watch to see what young gun can actually make a legit run at it.
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I think you mean BB and Brady have destroyed the NFL. BB drafted and groomed Brady.

It’s a lot easier for jealous loser Jets fans to accept Brady did it by himself after the very GM/Coach they stupidly traded here.

Kraft/BB/Brady destroyed it. It’s why Goodell was hired and expected to cheat our team whenever possible, too.
 
TyLawsPick6 said:
I think you mean BB and Brady have destroyed the NFL. BB drafted and groomed Brady.

It’s a lot easier for jealous loser Jets fans to accept Brady did it by himself after the very GM/Coach they stupidly traded here.

Kraft/BB/Brady destroyed it. It’s why Goodell was hired and expected to cheat our team whenever possible, too.
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It's Brady. It's a Qb driven league. He went to Tampa and won in year one. All future QBs are chasing him not the Patriots.
 
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