More Hypocrisy And Double-Standard BS

Dwight Schrute

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Take my advice on this. They aren't interested in what you're selling.

Says the other leader in the clubhouses henchman for Whiners 2.0.

If my team threw the shit against the wall that you 2 guys teams did I’d be so fvcking embarrassed to call myself a fan of the organization it’d be my final straw that I’d need to invest my free time into college football and free up my Sunday Monday and Pats Thursdays.

Belittle it all you want. It’ll NEVER fade around here. You think you know these folk, but you don’t.
 

Jaric

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Says the other leader in the clubhouses henchman for Whiners 2.0.

If my team threw the shit against the wall that you 2 guys teams did I’d be so fvcking embarrassed to call myself a fan of the organization it’d be my final straw that I’d need to invest my free time into college football and free up my Sunday Monday and Pats Thursdays.

Belittle it all you want. It’ll NEVER fade around here. You think you know these folk, but you don’t.
Ahem
Consider the torch passed.
Please direct your outrage to jetsknicks.
 

jetstream1066

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What "film study"...this is the first game with a new coach?

What film were hey studying?

No matter what....this looks bad for Patricia. How does the opponent know your playbook in the first freaking game?

Im sure there is a bunch of film to study on Stafford for the past several years. Common sense

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------

This is so disingenuous. You know damn well there would be all kinds of shit stirred up if a Pats player said that EXACT same thing.

Have you already forgotten about people going off the deep end over a few puffs of air in some footballs?

No "rule" was violated over saying they were prepared
 

TommyD420

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Im sure there is a bunch of film to study on Stafford for the past several years. Common sense

---------- Post added at 06:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------



No "rule" was violated over saying they were prepared

Of course no rule was violated. That's not the point.
 

jetstream1066

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Anyone that doesn't believe this would be a national sports media headliner if it was the Patriots is delusional.

I mean, I don't care...bring on the hate. Anything that pisses off the media and other sports fans is a plus in my book...F*ck them all.

But if you honestly believe that something like this would be treated the same if it was the Patriots, then you're just not that with it, know what I mean?

Of course it would bring more attention if it was the Pats....but that's solely based on the dopey spygate stuff. Otherwise, no way it escalates anymore than it did for the Jets

---------- Post added at 06:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 AM ----------

Ahem
Please direct your outrage to jetsknicks.

Don't get burned by the torch guys
 

Giant Octopodes

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My opinion is Pats fans are looking at this the wrong way.

We know that stealing signals (which the Jets players readily admitted they did, talked about how certain hand signals of Stafford they knew what they were) is not illegal.

We know that knowing the opposing playbook inside and out, and knowing the opponents plays and tendencies better than they do is not illegal.

We know that Spygate was NOT about any of those things, but rather was a massively overblown videography offense, and we know the only way the Pats were "cheating" was in having pictures of them rather than drawings, video recordings rather than voice recorded comments and later reenactments. Much ado about nothing.

So why not file this in the same category as the Butler interception and later coverage? If someone says something dumb about how "yeah it's easy when you know the plays the defense is using" or something like that, you can now have more ammo when you reply "That's their Job! That's why film study exists, and why every competent team in the league is dissecting their opponents playbooks week in, week out. It's not illegal!"

You can of course bring up the Butler interception, which they had specifically practiced defending against That Play, not based on stealing a playbook or recordings or anything like that, but because the Seahawks had used that exact play multiple times earlier in the year, it was on television for all to see and readily visible in the coaches film that the NFL freely disseminates to all teams.

But now you can also point out that the Jets, the very team who had started this whole mess, knew what the Lions were doing inside and out, knew their signals, etc etc etc, and there was no reaction because it's not illegal! It's just good football!

Rather than call for controversy and improper coverage of something which is not illegal, just add it to your toolbox. Ideally, it will leave them confused, and asking "well then why were the Pats fined $1 million and lost draft picks etc if it's not illegal?" And then you can point out that it's because team personnel had access to cameras or camcorders in non-approved locations, and because it's the Patriots. You can point out that the Jets Admitted to violating that self same rule the year before, but because the Pats are the Pats, and the Jets are the Jets, the Jets were not punished for their routine and flagrant violations of that rule, while the Pats were fined and punished more than any team in history had been, for any offense. And maybe, they just might believe you, or do their own research and confirm it.

Yes the double standard is real. Yes the Patriots are examined more closely than any other team in the league. Yes rumors of locker room bugs and other phantom activities to explain away their greater preparation persist despite the locker rooms in Gillette having been swept for bugs Multiple Times and nothing ever being found. Yes rumor and innuendo for them is accepted as ironclad fact while other teams can blatantly admit to rules violations (Packers with Rodgers anyone?) and the on the books punishment for that offense gets outright ignored or selectively enforced, without the media batting an eye.

Yet I see it as the responsibility of a Patriots fan to know more than anyone else, to have facts and knowledge on their side to counter the clickbait headline spouting low information insinuations of other team's fans. If anyone wants to debate the actual facts and minutiae of those events, I want to be able to, in terms that anyone can understand and with context to support it. To that end, the more stuff that comes out which can support my assertions the better, and I Welcome stuff like this, as well as the lack of media hyperbole or negative coverage.
 

jetstream1066

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My opinion is Pats fans are looking at this the wrong way.

We know that stealing signals (which the Jets players readily admitted they did, talked about how certain hand signals of Stafford they knew what they were) is not illegal.

We know that knowing the opposing playbook inside and out, and knowing the opponents plays and tendencies better than they do is not illegal.

We know that Spygate was NOT about any of those things, but rather was a massively overblown videography offense, and we know the only way the Pats were "cheating" was in having pictures of them rather than drawings, video recordings rather than voice recorded comments and later reenactments. Much ado about nothing.

So why not file this in the same category as the Butler interception and later coverage? If someone says something dumb about how "yeah it's easy when you know the plays the defense is using" or something like that, you can now have more ammo when you reply "That's their Job! That's why film study exists, and why every competent team in the league is dissecting their opponents playbooks week in, week out. It's not illegal!"

You can of course bring up the Butler interception, which they had specifically practiced defending against That Play, not based on stealing a playbook or recordings or anything like that, but because the Seahawks had used that exact play multiple times earlier in the year, it was on television for all to see and readily visible in the coaches film that the NFL freely disseminates to all teams.

But now you can also point out that the Jets, the very team who had started this whole mess, knew what the Lions were doing inside and out, knew their signals, etc etc etc, and there was no reaction because it's not illegal! It's just good football!

Rather than call for controversy and improper coverage of something which is not illegal, just add it to your toolbox. Ideally, it will leave them confused, and asking "well then why were the Pats fined $1 million and lost draft picks etc if it's not illegal?" And then you can point out that it's because team personnel had access to cameras or camcorders in non-approved locations, and because it's the Patriots. You can point out that the Jets Admitted to violating that self same rule the year before, but because the Pats are the Pats, and the Jets are the Jets, the Jets were not punished for their routine and flagrant violations of that rule, while the Pats were fined and punished more than any team in history had been, for any offense. And maybe, they just might believe you, or do their own research and confirm it.

Yes the double standard is real. Yes the Patriots are examined more closely than any other team in the league. Yes rumors of locker room bugs and other phantom activities to explain away their greater preparation persist despite the locker rooms in Gillette having been swept for bugs Multiple Times and nothing ever being found. Yes rumor and innuendo for them is accepted as ironclad fact while other teams can blatantly admit to rules violations (Packers with Rodgers anyone?) and the on the books punishment for that offense gets outright ignored or selectively enforced, without the media batting an eye.

Yet I see it as the responsibility of a Patriots fan to know more than anyone else, to have facts and knowledge on their side to counter the clickbait headline spouting low information insinuations of other team's fans. If anyone wants to debate the actual facts and minutiae of those events, I want to be able to, in terms that anyone can understand and with context to support it. To that end, the more stuff that comes out which can support my assertions the better, and I Welcome stuff like this, as well as the lack of media hyperbole or negative coverage.

Jets players did not admit that they stole signs
 

Giant Octopodes

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Jets players did not admit that they stole signs

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ay-defense-knew-matthew-stafford-signals-rout

Yes they did. Which, again, is not illegal, just good football.

Edit: I suspect the confusion might originate over the word "stole". After all, even in the article linked, the Jets players say they did not "steal" signals. For the purpose of clarity and this discussion, then, by "stole", I mean the following: Studying video which shows the signals in question as well as providing evidence of the meaning of said signals, and through that gaining a competitive advantage over the opposing team.

If you wish to debate they did not do that (which again, they readily admitted they did), or that it is illegal to do so (please cite the rule) or that there is a difference between what they did and what the Patriots did in Spygate more meaningful than the location of the camera used to capture the video or it being recorded in house vs provided by the NFL, by all means feel free.

(And yes, I'm aware it was defensive signals from the Defensive Coordinator rather than QB signals for pre-snap adjustments and options. At the time, defensive players didn't have radios for the defensive coordinator to call it in, despite the QB radio having been up for years before that, something they changed after Spygate, [you're welcome NFL]. So yes, it can't be *exactly* the same. The concept is what I'm referring to when I say it's the same thing.)
 

jetstream1066

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ay-defense-knew-matthew-stafford-signals-rout

Yes they did. Which, again, is not illegal, just good football.

Edit: I suspect the confusion might originate over the word "stole". After all, even in the article linked, the Jets players say they did not "steal" signals. For the purpose of clarity and this discussion, then, by "stole", I mean the following: Studying video which shows the signals in question as well as providing evidence of the meaning of said signals, and through that gaining a competitive advantage over the opposing team.

If you wish to debate they did not do that (which again, they readily admitted they did), or that it is illegal to do so (please cite the rule) or that there is a difference between what they did and what the Patriots did in Spygate more meaningful than the location of the camera used to capture the video or it being recorded in house vs provided by the NFL, by all means feel free.

(And yes, I'm aware it was defensive signals from the Defensive Coordinator rather than QB signals for pre-snap adjustments and options. At the time, defensive players didn't have radios for the defensive coordinator to call it in, despite the QB radio having been up for years before that, something they changed after Spygate, [you're welcome NFL]. So yes, it can't be *exactly* the same. The concept is what I'm referring to when I say it's the same thing.)
This is a quote from the article

Jets players said they weren't stealing signals

They did not say they stole signs. They said they knew what was coming. Same a a hitter saying he knew the pitcher was throwing a curve as he launches a 450 ft homerun. You are the person that said originally that they stole signs. How about just give credit that they were very well prepared instead of crying hypocrisy, double standard, blah blah blah.
 

Patriots71

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Give me a break, talk about looking for something, anything to be angry about. Feel persecuted much?

Please, don't act like it doesn't happen. It takes way less then something said like that to get you kids up in arms. So get that bass out of your voice because your team won a game last week, and the media is hyping you up, we both know how it will end.

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

This is a quote from the article

Jets players said they weren't stealing signals

They did not say they stole signs. They said they knew what was coming. Same a a hitter saying he knew the pitcher was throwing a curve as he launches a 450 ft homerun. You are the person that said originally that they stole signs. How about just give credit that they were very well prepared instead of crying hypocrisy, double standard, blah blah blah.

Oh they said they didn't, well ok, if they said they didn't, then I am sure that is true.
 

Patriots71

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Of course it would bring more attention if it was the Pats....but that's solely based on the dopey spygate stuff. Otherwise, no way it escalates anymore than it did for the Jets

---------- Post added at 06:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 AM ----------



Don't get burned by the torch guys

Has nothing to do with spygate, it has to do with the pats winning all the time making the rest of the league cry. Other teams have cheated, and nobody cares. Atlanta piping in crowd noise, browns sideline, giants walkie talkies, nobody cares, because those teams don't win as much. If the pats were 5-11 every year, you think anything would have gave a shit about spygate? In fact I doubt your team would have even cared. I know for a fact straight from players mouths that others were doing the same with video. Nobody cares.
 

Giant Octopodes

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This is a quote from the article

Jets players said they weren't stealing signals

They did not say they stole signs. They said they knew what was coming. Same a a hitter saying he knew the pitcher was throwing a curve as he launches a 450 ft homerun. You are the person that said originally that they stole signs. How about just give credit that they were very well prepared instead of crying hypocrisy, double standard, blah blah blah.

It's like you didn't read the edit at all, despite quoting it. The question I have is, if not working off the definition I posited, what definition are you using when you are using the word "stealing"? What does it mean, to you, to "steal" signals?
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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It should be common knowledge by now that the NFL punishes consistent greatness. Parity?
Yes...
 

jetstream1066

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Please, don't act like it doesn't happen. It takes way less then something said like that to get you kids up in arms. So get that bass out of your voice because your team won a game last week, and the media is hyping you up, we both know how it will end.

---------- Post added at 05:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------



Oh they said they didn't, well ok, if they said they didn't, then I am sure that is true.

About as sure as your biased opinion

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 AM ----------

So much crying
 
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PSC_Pats_Fan

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Patriots71

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About as sure as your biased opinion

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 AM ----------

So much crying

It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the pats are slammed worse than bad teams...its pretty obvious to anyone who has an education over 5th grade. In fact it happened again with the ravens. If this were the pats. It would be far worse.
 
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PSC_Pats_Fan

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It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the pats are slammed worse than bad teams...its pretty obvious to anyone who has an education over 5th grade. In fact it happened again with the ravens. If this were the pats. It would be far worse.


Yep.. And don’t forget that “Once a cheater, always a cheater” only applies to the Pats by the idiots out there, too. :rolleyes:
 

O.Z.O.

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jetstream1066

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It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the pats are slammed worse than bad teams...its pretty obvious to anyone who has an education over 5th grade. In fact it happened again with the ravens. If this were the pats. It would be far worse.

This is why I want the Pats to suck. If they sucked, not only would they be irrelevant, so then nobody would care if they "cheated", but the Jets would either have company in the suck category, or they would finally pass the Pats
 
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