Nice breakdown of KT's Jet game

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Sounds like we have a QB who cannot read defenses or find open receivers. :coffee:
 
MAYHEM said:
It looks like most of those plays labeled "not targeted" show him open after the ball has been thrown.
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Hard to judge precisely how open or covered he was in a still shot. It's not obvious where he was running to and where the defense would be when the ball got there.

Generally speaking, in today's NFL, if a QB waits for a WR to get open before he throws the ball, he won't be by the time it gets there.

I hope that the positive spin the article gives is correct, I simply can't tell from a still photo.
 
MAYHEM said:
It looks like most of those plays labeled "not targeted" show him open after the ball has been thrown.
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Most of the time with the pats, Brady goes through his reads, if the first read is open, that is usually is where he goes with the ball. So yeah showing stills is not really showing me what I think the guy is trying to show. Its hard to tell what pressure was there or things like that.
 
I don't remember him that open that often. Brady knows it after studying game film; he should be thinking clearly in this game.
 
O_P_T said:
Hard to judge precisely how open or covered he was in a still shot. It's not obvious where he was running to and where the defense would be when the ball got there.

Generally speaking, in today's NFL, if a QB waits for a WR to get open before he throws the ball, he won't be by the time it gets there.

I hope that the positive spin the article gives is correct, I simply can't tell from a still photo.
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After the ball has been thrown the defenders shouldn't continue in coverage, but should be converging to where the ball is thrown. It would be better to use screenshots showing Brady after his drop back and right before he throws to see if players are open and open when they should be.

For example, a three step drop coincides with quick 5 yard cuts like hitches, slants, outs, and under routes. A screenshot showing Brady right after his drop, and where the receiver is at that point, would be the better way to see if the player is open or not.
 
Fascinating. Where do the photos come from? A split second either way mean the difference between open receiver/covered receiver.
 
chevss454 said:
I don't remember him that open that often. Brady knows it after studying game film; he should be thinking clearly in this game.
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Well you are looking at stills and everyone was after the ball was gone. Brady is basically going with his first read if its open, its not like he has a chance to stand back there and survey who would be the best guy to get the ball, so not sure its as easy as you are making it. Everyone looks open after the ball is gone or the Qb is sacked.
 
midgar8784 said:
Well you are looking at stills and everyone was after the ball was gone. Brady is basically going with his first read if its open, its not like he has a chance to stand back there and survey who would be the best guy to get the ball, so not sure its as easy as you are making it. Everyone looks open after the ball is gone or the Qb is sacked.
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True. But maybe after film study, KT gets more first read routes. Show the trainer that you can get open and you will get more looks from the Qb. We will see.
 
Billy Volek said:
Fascinating. Where do the photos come from? A split second either way mean the difference between open receiver/covered receiver.
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Since you can see a wide view of the whole field the screen shots are most likely taken from the coach's film available from subscription through NFL.com. This service is known as "NFL game rewind" and also as "all-22".

The basic package costs, I think, 30 bucks, allows you to watch a game in about half an hour and it shows you everything. I'm guessing the author has the feed run through a device that allows him to pause the screen and save the image as a jpeg.

I don't know why I haven't pulled the trigger on this service yet. For 30 bucks it seems like a pretty good deal, nevermind cutting out all the commercials and dead time.
 
Hawg73 said:
Since you can see a wide view of the whole field the screen shots are most likely taken from the coach's film available from subscription through NFL.com. This service is known as "NFL game rewind" and also as "all-22".

The basic package costs, I think, 30 bucks, allows you to watch a game in about half an hour and it shows you everything. I'm guessing the author has the feed run through a device that allows him to pause the screen and save the image as a jpeg.

I don't know why I haven't pulled the trigger on this service yet. For 30 bucks it seems like a pretty good deal, nevermind cutting out all the commercials and dead time.
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I subscribed last year. It sounded really good & I anticipated studying the film of all the games. I watched maybe 4 games all year primarily bc the time involved was overwhelming & for what purpose? 30-35 mins sounds good until you start replaying every play 4, 5 and 6 times and then jot notes in between the replays. That 30 mins turned into 3 1/2 hrs quickly. Finally I decided I'd forget the All 22 & just read what Bedard had to say, save about 3 hours and learn more in the end. Sadly, there's no Bedard this year but Nick Underhill of MassLive and Oliver Thomas of NEPDraft are taking his place nicely. (Volin is in over his head.)
 
midgar8784 said:
Well you are looking at stills and everyone was after the ball was gone. Brady is basically going with his first read if its open, its not like he has a chance to stand back there and survey who would be the best guy to get the ball, so not sure its as easy as you are making it. Everyone looks open after the ball is gone or the Qb is sacked.
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Spin it however you want but in many of those photos Brady still had the ball or had only just released it and KT was wide open. 1 thing I remember from studying his game is that he was very effective finding the seam against zone coverage. From those photos it seems that skill wasn't lost in translation to the NFL. If Bucs CB Johnthan Banks ends up covering KT or Dobson, they should have a pretty big match up advantage.
 
O_P_T said:
Hard to judge precisely how open or covered he was in a still shot. It's not obvious where he was running to and where the defense would be when the ball got there.

Generally speaking, in today's NFL, if a QB waits for a WR to get open before he throws the ball, he won't be by the time it gets there.

I hope that the positive spin the article gives is correct, I simply can't tell from a still photo.
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A few are questionable, but for the most part it is straightforward, particularly when you compare the plays where he was targeted to those when he wasn't.
 
chevss454 said:
Spin it however you want but in many of those photos Brady still had the ball or had only just released it and KT was wide open. 1 thing I remember from studying his game is that he was very effective finding the seam against zone coverage. From those photos it seems that skill wasn't lost in translation to the NFL. If Bucs CB Johnthan Banks ends up covering KT or Dobson, they should have a pretty big match up advantage.
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Sorry Chev I know you are blowing this kids horn, but I am going to take the decisions and play of a 14 year vet hall of fame QB over a guy in his second game. Oh and no not in many of those photo's was he wide open and Brady still had the ball, nor do you know what pressure was coming or what his first read was or anything else. If he is open and he can make plays, he will get the ball, just like every single other receiver that has been here that Brady has built a hall of fame career on.
 
Hello all. I wrote this and I saw my post was getting a lot of hits from this forum and decided to check it out, I've never been here before, nice forum you have here. Thought I'd just give my 2cents on the discussion.

midgar8784 said:
Sorry Chev I know you are blowing this kids horn, but I am going to take the decisions and play of a 14 year vet hall of fame QB over a guy in his second game. Oh and no not in many of those photo's was he wide open and Brady still had the ball, nor do you know what pressure was coming or what his first read was or anything else. If he is open and he can make plays, he will get the ball, just like every single other receiver that has been here that Brady has built a hall of fame career on.
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I just wanted to clarify that was not intended to be an indictment on Brady. I believe AustrianPatriot may have said it best:

AustrianPatriot said:
True. But maybe after film study, KT gets more first read routes. Show the trainer that you can get open and you will get more looks from the Qb. We will see.
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The play calls strongly dictate Brady's progressions, it is not his fault. My hope is that more plays designed to go to KT as a first or second option will be called in the future now that he has shown an ability to consistently get open.

midgar8784 said:
Most of the time with the pats, Brady goes through his reads, if the first read is open, that is usually is where he goes with the ball. So yeah showing stills is not really showing me what I think the guy is trying to show. Its hard to tell what pressure was there or things like that.
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You are completely right, a lot of the times when he was open and not targeted, Brady was under pressure, or there was an earlier read that was also open. My intention was not to look at the offense as a whole, or Brady's performance, my intention was to show KT's route running in a vacuum. The idea is, sure Brady was under pressure this time they ran the play, but if next time they run the same play the protection is better, KT will most likely be open (obviously this is an oversimplification but I hope you get my point).

MAYHEM said:
It looks like most of those plays labeled "not targeted" show him open after the ball has been thrown.
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I agree that not all of the stills are taken at an ideal time. That being said, I don't believe there is a route where it changes my assessment of his route. For example, Play #8. The ball has been thrown, and to your point the linebackers have started to move towards the ball, but there is 10 yards of open space in any direction, perhaps in an earlier still before the linebackers move there may be 8 yards of open space. The overall point of him being open remains the same. Similar situation with Play #3, Thompkins had beaten his man even before the ball was thrown, but unfortunately the still I provided was taken as Dobson catches the ball. Play #1 is another that is taken after the ball has been thrown, but the DB never turns his head, and as far as I can tell did not know the ball had been thrown, so the play still seemed relevant.


Go Patriots! :patriotlogo:
 
tart___ said:
Hello all. I wrote this and I saw my post was getting a lot of hits from this forum and decided to check it out, I've never been here before, nice forum you have here. Thought I'd just give my 2cents on the discussion.



I just wanted to clarify that was not intended to be an indictment on Brady. I believe AustrianPatriot may have said it best:



The play calls strongly dictate Brady's progressions, it is not his fault. My hope is that more plays designed to go to KT as a first or second option will be called in the future now that he has shown an ability to consistently get open.



You are completely right, a lot of the times when he was open and not targeted, Brady was under pressure, or there was an earlier read that was also open. My intention was not to look at the offense as a whole, or Brady's performance, my intention was to show KT's route running in a vacuum. The idea is, sure Brady was under pressure this time they ran the play, but if next time they run the same play the protection is better, KT will most likely be open (obviously this is an oversimplification but I hope you get my point).



I agree that not all of the stills are taken at an ideal time. That being said, I don't believe there is a route where it changes my assessment of his route. For example, Play #8. The ball has been thrown, and to your point the linebackers have started to move towards the ball, but there is 10 yards of open space in any direction, perhaps in an earlier still before the linebackers move there may be 8 yards of open space. The overall point of him being open remains the same. Similar situation with Play #3, Thompkins had beaten his man even before the ball was thrown, but unfortunately the still I provided was taken as Dobson catches the ball. Play #1 is another that is taken after the ball has been thrown, but the DB never turns his head, and as far as I can tell did not know the ball had been thrown, so the play still seemed relevant.


Go Patriots! :patriotlogo:
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No, and like Chev said, looking at film helps a lot. In most cases when a receiver is here for a long time, Brady knows where they are going to be and knows how they beat the defense and he can kind of look at that, but with KT an Dobson, he doesn't so looking at what they can do and what they are doing can make that progression better, it just takes time.

Oh and Welcome
 
tart___ said:
Hello all. I wrote this and I saw my post was getting a lot of hits from this forum and decided to check it out, I've never been here before, nice forum you have here. Thought I'd just give my 2cents on the discussion.



I just wanted to clarify that was not intended to be an indictment on Brady. I believe AustrianPatriot may have said it best:



The play calls strongly dictate Brady's progressions, it is not his fault. My hope is that more plays designed to go to KT as a first or second option will be called in the future now that he has shown an ability to consistently get open.



You are completely right, a lot of the times when he was open and not targeted, Brady was under pressure, or there was an earlier read that was also open. My intention was not to look at the offense as a whole, or Brady's performance, my intention was to show KT's route running in a vacuum. The idea is, sure Brady was under pressure this time they ran the play, but if next time they run the same play the protection is better, KT will most likely be open (obviously this is an oversimplification but I hope you get my point).



I agree that not all of the stills are taken at an ideal time. That being said, I don't believe there is a route where it changes my assessment of his route. For example, Play #8. The ball has been thrown, and to your point the linebackers have started to move towards the ball, but there is 10 yards of open space in any direction, perhaps in an earlier still before the linebackers move there may be 8 yards of open space. The overall point of him being open remains the same. Similar situation with Play #3, Thompkins had beaten his man even before the ball was thrown, but unfortunately the still I provided was taken as Dobson catches the ball. Play #1 is another that is taken after the ball has been thrown, but the DB never turns his head, and as far as I can tell did not know the ball had been thrown, so the play still seemed relevant.


Go Patriots! :patriotlogo:
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Thanks for checking in and I hope you look around some if/when you come back. There's a very good WR thread before and after the draft. This is a pretty savvy group when it comes to figuring out what the Pats are up to.

:Lwelcome::Lwelcome:
 
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