Patriots Free Agency 2023

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Flagg the Wanderer said:
There's such a difference between trying to be right and trying to understand. It's just two different ways to use the board.

A team you follow closely makes a move that doesn't seem to make sense. I think we can all agree that Belichick and the staff know more about football than any of us, and certainly more about their systems and what they are trying to accomplish.

Person 1 assesses it and makes a pronouncement - it's stupid, etc. Person 2 looks at it to try to figure out what the team is doing, because what you're seeing doesn't add up. Person 2 might throw out several theories and seem to change their mind as they assess and look at it from different perspectives.

Interestingly, if Person 1 and Person 2 do this consistently, Person 1 will generally be right a higher percentage of the time. Some moves work, others don't, but by taking one position and sticking with it rather than exploring a bunch of possibilities, explanations, what is planned, you're right sometimes and wrong sometimes. Person 2 is throwing out a ton of theories, some of which are thought out and others that are quick takes and what ifs, trying to understand the moves of experts in their field with track records of success. Most of them are going to be wrong, especially when the moves tend to be non-conventional. And Person 2 will also appear wishy washy, taking multiple sides of various issues.

Generally speaking, Person 2 might be considered thoughtful, but they will also tend to be considered a fanboy, and accused of always rationalizing any moves that are made as they try to find the logic and the plan behind the moves.
On the other hand, Person 1 may be considered a curmudgeon or a hater by a passionate fanbase, but they will also be considered an independent thinker because they don't always explore looking for the underlying logic/strategic benefit of a move if it's not immediately apparent.

But who brings more to a discussion board? And who learns more?

I think the Planet is fracturing right now, pretty much along those lines, combined with some basic civility. We've had trolls come and go, but this is the extended period I can remember when I haven't felt like this place is a refuge.
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Yes. Person 1 is a stopped clock. Twice a day person 1 will be correct because they don’t move and evolve. Person 2 is here to have discussion and debate and learn. Person 2 brings ideas, facts and invites more.

Do we need stopped clocks?
 
spacecrime said:
It certainly isn't much fun here with every thread derailed, but this forum has an owner and it isn't me or you so our choices are deal with it or leave. It's not bad enough yet for me to leave..
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The owner has barely had time to visit, let alone stay current day in and day out.

You have more choices than that and I have read a few threads this morning and handed out a few more thread bans, along with some other discouragement.

But anyway, there are more choices as I still am of the mindset that the community is what the members make it. If someone shows consistently that they are a problem in having a pleasant forum to come to (and not just for differing opinions, but in the way they bring them) than the members have a large voice in what happens to said poster.

The only thing I would add is we are not exactly getting floods of new members and if we ever want to move beyond little circles again, tolerance for differing opinions should be considered patiently. Another thing that would go a long way is to not feed someone you think is a troll.

I know this isn't simply about differing opinions in this case though. I am addressing things in general, not to one specific poster.

If we need to hand out bans, we can. I don't have the time, and I have never been of the mindset, to force people to take anything to serve some imagined agenda.
 
Undertaker #59* said:
The owner has barely had time to visit, let alone stay current day in and day out.

You have more choices than that and I have read a few threads this morning and handed out a few more thread bans, along with some other discouragement.

But anyway, there are more choices as I still am of the mindset that the community is what the members make it. If someone shows consistently that they are a problem in having a pleasant forum to come to (and not just for differing opinions, but in the way they bring them) than the members have a large voice in what happens to said poster.

The only thing I would add is we are not exactly getting floods of new members and if we ever want to move beyond little circles again, tolerance for differing opinions should be considered patiently. Another thing that would go a long way is to not feed someone you think is a troll.

I know this isn't simply about differing opinions in this case though. I am addressing things in general, not to one specific poster.

If we need to hand out bans, we can. I don't have the time, and I have never been of the mindset, to force people to take anything to serve some imagined agenda.
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I appreciate all the work you and the mods put into this forum, but hard work does not always equate to improvement. I hear you about the Planet not growing, but have you considered that a possible reason for not growing is that visitors who are Patriots fans go, "Meh." Lots of places when they can go for Patriots news, info and discussion where they would be insulted for liking the Patriots.

If you were a Patriot fan and you found this place for the first time, would you you find this to be a welcoming place for Patriots fans?

Every move BB/Kraft makes is for what is best for the team, just as everything you do is for what is best for the forum. It does take some introspection to see if decisions made are actually what IS best for the team.

I hadn't intended to my original comment for you; I was just replying to a member about the forum getting fractured and pointing out our only two options as members. Stay and put up with it or leave. Trying self-governing isn't working. It results in a back-and-forth thread-busting exchange that a mod just shut down in another thread, Rightfully so, IMO, even if I was one of the participants. If we have other options other than put up with it or leave, it would be great to have them listed.

Sincere thanks for valuing my thoughts with a detailed reply.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
There's such a difference between trying to be right and trying to understand. It's just two different ways to use the board.

A team you follow closely makes a move that doesn't seem to make sense. I think we can all agree that Belichick and the staff know more about football than any of us, and certainly more about their systems and what they are trying to accomplish.

Person 1 assesses it and makes a pronouncement - it's stupid, etc. Person 2 looks at it to try to figure out what the team is doing, because what you're seeing doesn't add up. Person 2 might throw out several theories and seem to change their mind as they assess and look at it from different perspectives.

Interestingly, if Person 1 and Person 2 do this consistently, Person 1 will generally be right a higher percentage of the time. Some moves work, others don't, but by taking one position and sticking with it rather than exploring a bunch of possibilities, explanations, what is planned, you're right sometimes and wrong sometimes. Person 2 is throwing out a ton of theories, some of which are thought out and others that are quick takes and what ifs, trying to understand the moves of experts in their field with track records of success. Most of them are going to be wrong, especially when the moves tend to be non-conventional. And Person 2 will also appear wishy washy, taking multiple sides of various issues.

Generally speaking, Person 2 might be considered thoughtful, but they will also tend to be considered a fanboy, and accused of always rationalizing any moves that are made as they try to find the logic and the plan behind the moves.
On the other hand, Person 1 may be considered a curmudgeon or a hater by a passionate fanbase, but they will also be considered an independent thinker because they don't always explore looking for the underlying logic/strategic benefit of a move if it's not immediately apparent.

But who brings more to a discussion board? And who learns more?

I think the Planet is fracturing right now, pretty much along those lines, combined with some basic civility. We've had trolls come and go, but this is the extended period I can remember when I haven't felt like this place is a refuge.
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This is just a fantastic post. I will try to be more thoughtful and community building going forward.
 
spacecrime said:
I appreciate all the work you and the mods put into this forum, but hard work does not always equate to improvement. I hear you about the Planet not growing, but have you considered that a possible reason for not growing is that visitors who are Patriots fans go, "Meh." Lots of places when they can go for Patriots news, info and discussion where they would be insulted for liking the Patriots.

If you were a Patriot fan and you found this place for the first time, would you you find this to be a welcoming place for Patriots fans?

Every move BB/Kraft makes is for what is best for the team, just as everything you do is for what is best for the forum. It does take some introspection to see if decisions made are actually what IS best for the team.

I hadn't intended to my original comment for you; I was just replying to a member about the forum getting fractured and pointing out our only two options as members. Stay and put up with it or leave. Trying self-governing isn't working. It results in a back-and-forth thread-busting exchange that a mod just shut down in another thread, Rightfully so, IMO, even if I was one of the participants. If we have other options other than put up with it or leave, it would be great to have them listed.

Sincere thanks for valuing my thoughts with a detailed reply.
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I had an account here years back as rfw and went away for awhile. As a relative newbie, I can say that i am posting here because there are some really great posters. Some good ideas and insights are shared, and I like the draft, free agency talk.

The problems of the board are similar to the problems of every board and society in general: many want hot takes, they are more interested in being right and certain than open to new information to change their mind, they only post to disagree - etc.

Tangent:
When I get discouraged with the lack of team progress in the post- Brady (and truthfully, the end of Brady era) I remind myself that my dad’s favorite team was the Red Sox, and he never saw them win a title. For him, being a fan wasn’t about the result Or being angry after every season without a title, it was about rooting for a group of guys as they battled through a season. In sports, as in life, there aren’t a lot of championships. It is more of just a grind, where you try to give close to your best, as often as you can, and hope the people you surround yourself do as well.
There’s plenty of good here, and for now and for me at least, it outweighs the noise.
 
TommyD420 said:
Lamar Jackson is better than Mac Jones for 10 games a season.

That's an undeniable fact. :coffee:
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So he’s slightly above average?

If the Pats want a running QB, just draft the next one. They can be had with a late first or second rounder. Don’t overpay for Lamar.
Likewise the Eagles would be crazy to sign Hurts to a big extension.
These running QBs are replaceable. True arm talent is not.
Mac doesn’t have either.
 
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rivshark86 said:
So he’s slightly above average?

If the Pats want a running QB, just draft the next one. They can be had with a late first or second rounder. Don’t overpay for Lamar.
Likewise the Eagles would be crazy to sign Hurts to a big extension.
These running QBs are replaceable. True arm talent is not.
Mac doesn’t have either.
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More than slightly. You dont win mvp from slightly-above average play.

For 10 games a season, jackson is leaps and bounds better than jones both with his arms and legs.

That's just undeniable fact. My hang up would be the 10 games a season part. It's not my money.
 
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