Patriots Offensive Line

Share this page

Status
Not open for further replies.
DropKickFlutie said:
That’s a lot of holes, essentially a major defensive overhaul and playing catchup because didn’t address it this year. Went for too many strong safeties instead.

Need to find DMac’s replacement.
Click to expand...
I think he's on the team already. Who is essentially the same build, a smart player who the coaches show confidence in playing at different positions, who is always in the right place but just shy of having the tools to be a cover corner, so is always beat by 6-18 inches? That's right, I think Miles Bryant is the planned DMac replacement. That doesn't mean I'm right, or that it's a sure thing, and it's not a bad place to look for an upgrade. But I think that's the plan ATM. I don't think it's Bledsoe, but I certainly could be wrong on that. It's such a critical part of BB's D, that I'm always in favor of looking for a potential stud at that position.

As an aside, I don't think it's totally out of the question that it's Marcus Jones, either. But that's less likely, IMO.
DropKickFlutie said:
Need to find Hightower’s replacement, Bentley sucks
Godchaux sucks, Barmore is good but not a NT. Need an elite nose tackle.
Click to expand...
The point of NT is that you don't need an elite one. You need a blue collar grinder who spits nails. Seymour was wasted there. Wilfork was a unicorn.

Godcheaux's play is down from earlier in the year, but some of that is that Barmore is no longer there getting all the attention he was getting.

Yes, Bentley sucks as an ILB at pretty much everything except coming downhill, B-gap to B-gap. He surprised me at how well he was setting the edge and keeping lane discipline when he shifted outside, but putting him there on the regular would invite problems.
DropKickFlutie said:
OLine I have a slightly different take which is they could target more guards and slide Onwenu to RT. I think it’s easier to get a guard than try to compete with the league on tackles
Click to expand...
Yes, it's easier to find replacement level guards vs tackles. But if you're building around a pocket passer, an elite guard (G/C/G combo) is more important than a top tackle, especially RT. Onwenu is an elite OG, but only an above average RT, especially pass blocking. Plus, shifting him to tackle raises the price to re-sign him.

On the team right now, we have more options at RT than at RG. If the staff was really excited about Hines and he was healthy, that changes the equation, but I still would hesitate to do that, because Andrews can't help both rookie guards. As a next year thing, maybe ?/Strange/Andrews/Hines/Onwenu is the way to go. But I'm talking about this year. And the last thing Mac needs is not to be able to rely on his G/C/G holding up in passpro.
 
DropKickFlutie said:
I’d keep Brown at LT, he’s been mostly good the same way Strange has been mostly good with some bad games. Wynn is a lost cause, why even try Wynn again at LT. Just let him go. Wynn was not good at LT last year, Brown right now at LT is better than Wynn at LT
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about that. Wynn was replacement level at LT last year, about where Brown has been overall - he had one really strong game and two really bad ones, and has been pretty much replacement level for the rest of them.

I don't think it's arguable that Wynn was better at LT than RT, and film shows a distinct drop in the push he's getting from his post leg on the right side vs last year on the left which, if I had to guess, is causing him to overcompensate and get himself off-balance. He's still pretty good at run blocking, which was the case on both sides. Average to above average for an LT, about average, maybe a touch below, for an RT.

If we were getting the LT Brown we had in 2018 or whatever that year was when he just ate everyone's lunch, that would be one thing. But we haven't seen anything even close to that, nor signs that it's coming.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
I don't think Brown is much worse at RT. He had one insane season at LT when he was probably a top 3 LT in the league (2018?) but never repeated it. Other than that he's been okay as an LT and average to above average at RT pass blocking and above average to excellent run blocking.

I don't think position impacts injury prone-ness at all. Sample size is way to small to make a call like that.

Besides that, he's not worse than Wynn at RT, which is what matters in this comparison, and the last we saw from Wynn at LT was substantially better than what we're seeing from Brown there now. Wynn is dramatically better with his right foot inside. Brown is maybe marginally better with his right foot inside, but I'm far from sure about that, and he's at least shown some success on the right side.
Click to expand...

First, your premise for a flexible 6-man line was very interesting and I think it has merit, but mainly as a wrinkle for the D to solve. The endgame is obviously to
provide better play from the RT position and to not have to reduce the number of skill players just to protect against a weak position.

I believe Wynn's decline is not due to right or left-handed dominance, because I think he was equally inept on either side, but the switch to the right might have
been partially responsible for all the pre-snap penalties. It's mainly between Wynn's ears. I like Evan Lazar's theory that he displayed excellent lateral mobility
as a rookie and hasn't been the same since suffering ankle/leg problems. Is he unhappy here? Maybe, but, if so, he's not helping himself land in a softer spot by
sucking. I agree that he can show above-average ability as a run blocker from either side, but that doesn't offset the inability to cut off the edge or anchor well in
pass pro. I think he's all done and am disappointed that we couldn't land a better solution yesterday. I'm on to Yodny Cajuste and believe that, can he actually stay
healthy for a big, fat, fucking change he can finally help us shore up the position. We don't have any other options right now except to, once again, move poor
Mike Onwenu outside and hope that Ferentz or Russey can hold the fort at RG.

Neither is an ideal solution and hoping Chasen Hines can return down the stretch from IR is a stretch, although I think he could provide more than the other two
guys and has the potential to be a plus player. I can't help but wonder how we'd be faring this season had we been able to resign Shaq Mason and hand Onwenu
the job.

To me, Cajuste is the best answer we have at present with Cannon subbing in situationally. I'm not holding my breath on Wynn any longer.
 
HSanders said:
i think dugger is dmac's "replacement".
Click to expand...
He might make it easier to replace him because he has more coverage range than guys like Chung, etc., who paired with DMac, but he couldn't take his place, IMO.
 
Hawg73 said:
First, your premise for a flexible 6-man line was very interesting and I think it has merit, but mainly as a wrinkle for the D to solve. The endgame is obviously to
provide better play from the RT position and to not have to reduce the number of skill players just to protect against a weak position.

I believe Wynn's decline is not due to right or left-handed dominance, because I think he was equally inept on either side, but the switch to the right might have
been partially responsible for all the pre-snap penalties. It's mainly between Wynn's ears. I like Evan Lazar's theory that he displayed excellent lateral mobility
as a rookie and hasn't been the same since suffering ankle/leg problems. Is he unhappy here? Maybe, but, if so, he's not helping himself land in a softer spot by
sucking. I agree that he can show above-average ability as a run blocker from either side, but that doesn't offset the inability to cut off the edge or anchor well in
pass pro. I think he's all done and am disappointed that we couldn't land a better solution yesterday. I'm on to Yodny Cajuste and believe that, can he actually stay
healthy for a big, fat, fucking change he can finally help us shore up the position. We don't have any other options right now except to, once again, move poor
Mike Onwenu outside and hope that Ferentz or Russey can hold the fort at RG.

Neither is an ideal solution and hoping Chasen Hines can return down the stretch from IR is a stretch, although I think he could provide more than the other two
guys and has the potential to be a plus player. I can't help but wonder how we'd be faring this season had we been able to resign Shaq Mason and hand Onwenu
the job.

To me, Cajuste is the best answer we have at present with Cannon subbing in situationally. I'm not holding my breath on Wynn any longer.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't know what to think of Cajuste, except that I'm hesitant to rely on him as the solution. If the coaches think he's the best option, I assume we'll see it soon.

Compare Wynn's performance last year, or the last two years, to this year. He's clearly much worse this year. Specifically he's worse at gaining depth and cutting off the corner. There isn't an injury in the intervening period that explains this. But you can see the amount of push from his left leg this year compared to from his right leg last year, and it's significant.

You know as well as anyone that I'm not a Wynn fan - I challenged you on it early last year or maybe even 2020. But 2021 Wynn was better in passpro at LT than 2022 Brown. And 2021 Brown was miles better at everything related to Right Tackling than 2022 Wynn. I don't see a reason for it except the flip.

Regarding the 6 man line, I actually think it puts teams in a nasty bind, especially if we show that we'll both run and throw out of it. Should provide better protection than using a TE or chipping or even full pass pro with an RB, though you're still able to add that. The personnel bind it puts the defense in is not nothing. Given the passpro problems we're having, I could see using it as much as 10% of the time, and if we see a personnel advantage, crank into hurry-up from it.

That said, yes, it's a wrinkle, not a solution.
 
Last edited:
aloyouis said:
How do you feel about Bentley? How do you feel about Godchaux?

I wish you could find a way to communicate more frequently what you know better that the the GOAT HC of all time.

I mean, you barely repeat yourself more than 20 times a day!

Pick it up!!!!
Click to expand...
Matt Patricia...Joe Judge...
 
sg14 said:
Name that right guard.
The Oline cupboard is pretty bare right now.
Doubt Wynn would do well at RG.
Other option is Bill Murray, think he played recently. Or the brand new practice squad Howerton.
Click to expand...

Hines? Would Hinest at RG be better than Cannon at RT. Cannon was a weakness
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
I think he's on the team already. Who is essentially the same build, a smart player who the coaches show confidence in playing at different positions, who is always in the right place but just shy of having the tools to be a cover corner, so is always beat by 6-18 inches? That's right, I think Miles Bryant is the planned DMac replacement. That doesn't mean I'm right, or that it's a sure thing, and it's not a bad place to look for an upgrade. But I think that's the plan ATM. I don't think it's Bledsoe, but I certainly could be wrong on that. It's such a critical part of BB's D, that I'm always in favor of looking for a potential stud at that position.

As an aside, I don't think it's totally out of the question that it's Marcus Jones, either. But that's less likely, IMO.

The point of NT is that you don't need an elite one. You need a blue collar grinder who spits nails. Seymour was wasted there. Wilfork was a unicorn.

Godcheaux's play is down from earlier in the year, but some of that is that Barmore is no longer there getting all the attention he was getting.

Yes, Bentley sucks as an ILB at pretty much everything except coming downhill, B-gap to B-gap. He surprised me at how well he was setting the edge and keeping lane discipline when he shifted outside, but putting him there on the regular would invite problems.

Yes, it's easier to find replacement level guards vs tackles. But if you're building around a pocket passer, an elite guard (G/C/G combo) is more important than a top tackle, especially RT. Onwenu is an elite OG, but only an above average RT, especially pass blocking. Plus, shifting him to tackle raises the price to re-sign him.

On the team right now, we have more options at RT than at RG. If the staff was really excited about Hines and he was healthy, that changes the equation, but I still would hesitate to do that, because Andrews can't help both rookie guards. As a next year thing, maybe ?/Strange/Andrews/Hines/Onwenu is the way to go. But I'm talking about this year. And the last thing Mac needs is not to be able to rely on his G/C/G holding up in passpro.
Click to expand...

A lot of good thoughts here.

I'm shocked Miles Bryant plays this much. Is this guy good at anything? DMac went to the pro bowl as a corner before moving to FS. The defense would look even worse without a free safety preventing a lot of huge chunk plays.

For NT, I think the team needs an elite one even if they have zero pass rushing skills. Someone for 1st and 2nd down, 3rd and short, and goal line, even if not worth a 1st rounder, need someone elite at this who will stop a QB sneak.
 
HSanders said:
i think dugger is dmac's "replacement".
Click to expand...

For some reason I've thought DMac's replacement was Bledsoe since the day he was drafted. Similar size, speed and measurables. He's been listed as a S from day 1.
Just wish Bledsoe could stay healthy.
I'd feel better with Dugger back there but I also like Dugger in Chung's role/nickel LB along with Peppers on the line.

Flagg, I worry about a short FS. Rodney was 6'1", 220. Bryant at 5'9" is smurfy for a FS which would keep me up at night.
McCourty is 5'10" and Bledsoe is 5'11". I don't want to go smaller than that.
 
chevss454 said:
True, BB was dabbling with the S/LB hybrid thing back then. Which is exactly why Dugger is a SS in my mind.
Click to expand...

I agree that he is built to be a SS type and is most effective coming forward or playing in and around the box.

The biggest question mark for me with Dugger is in his instincts/cover skills. He's made some nice plays in coverage this season, but doesn't have
much of a resume in this area. I would go so far as to say he was below average over his first two seasons and seemed behind the curve due
to the giant leap between Lenoir-Rhyne and the NFL. I don't know if he'll ever have a role patrolling the back end, but it's possible.

However, his tackling and closing speed is elite, imo. He was really starting to make a name for himself before the latest injury, so let's hope he
comes back strong and soon. He is a force against the run and getting better in coverage.
 
DropKickFlutie said:
Brown has generally been good. 2022 Brown at LT is still better than 2021 Wynn. Wynn is just useless, get rid of those players from that crappy draft class. Clean house. Just like with NKeal, don't keep forcing it, just get rid of the bums
Click to expand...

LOL. I think he must have me on ignore. He can't be reading my responses and still repeat himself so often.

Can he?
 
Cajuste started at right tackle and the OLine was a problem today. This offseason should fix right tackle, or slide Onwenu to RT and get a young right guard.

On another note, the offensive red zone and short yardage plays are baffling. Might be the worst converting red zone offense in the league. And makes no sense to put Meyers on a QB sneak when he is not good at yards after the catch or trucking.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top