Patriots Offseason 2022

[Grogan]

No one used the word "stud" to describe Dugger other than yourself. ParanoidPatriot said "Dugger looks like he is going to be a stud", which isn't the same as saying he's a stud right now. I completely agree with that sentiment. I don't think Dugger is a stud at this point in time, but I think he's well on his way and could be one within 1-2 seasons.

Yes, consistent play over time is what makes a player uniquely good -- Dugger hasn't had ample time to do that because he's only been in the NFL for two seasons. In his second season, he racked up 92 tackles (72 solo) and 4 INTs for 100 yards. Those statistics indicate game-changing impact IMO.

Drafting later relative to other teams is an inherent disadvantage. The Patriots have been able to maintain their success in spite of that. I don't think anyone is in the business of making excuses, but it's certainly a good explanation for why NE has had more difficulty landing sure-things in the draft compared to other teams who are consistently drafting higher.

Let me spell it out clearly for you. One starter in three drafts isn't good enough no matter what position you're picking. Aside from that, all I'm saying is that if he gets the credit for last years draft, then he should get the blame for the last three years that produced almost nothing.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

I don't mind Dugger...I thinks he's on his way.

 

[spacecrime]

he said solid starter not stud.

If you're not a stud, evidently you're a marginal starter. Nothing in-between.

I can tell the offseason is upon us. We all get a little whacky, much like addicts who suddenly lost their fix. Present company excluded, of course. Not me and you

 

[vertigho]

It's just amazing to me that it's even debatable. He missed on the two tight ends, three if you count the massive contract we gave to smith, then he missed on both LBs and a 1at round Wrs in the deepest we class in the last ten years. Now it looks like last years class is a success but let's be honest, our weaknesses as a team are his failures over the last several drafts.

You cannot call Smith a miss at this point. He had a disappointing first season over the course of a contract that runs 4 years. He might bust here, but based on his play on TEN I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Going a step further, by all accounts he is a genuinely good guy, hard worker, high character, and never mentally checked out this season despite the lack of targets and involvement. I'm cautiously optimistic he will come around and produce more in future seasons.

Who are the "missed on both LBs" you are referencing? Having a hard time figuring out who those two are, since there wasn't a big investment made at the position recently, in either FA or the draft (unless you count Judon, who is more of a true EDGE, and he certainly was not a "miss").

 

[ParanoidPatriot]

I'm going to give Smith another year. He has way too much potential...I think he wasn't ready for the Pats playbook...and the Pats never really used him right.

But, I do agree about the past few drafts were bad...before this last one. Wynn and Michel and Harry instead of Chubb and a few of the other WR's would have been amazing!

Both Wynn and Sony were both solid contributors to our last Super Bowl season. Sony might not have been traded had the Patriots not been so good at drafting RB's.
Wow, the Patriots were actually drafted well at one position.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Both Wynn and Sony were both solid contributors to our last Super Bowl season. Sony might not have been traded had the Patriots not been so good at drafting RB's.
Wow, the Patriots were actually drafted well at one position.

It doesn't really matter now, as it's all in the past.

 

[Grogan]

You cannot call Smith a miss at this point. He had a disappointing first season over the course of a contract that runs 4 years. He might bust here, but based on his play on TEN I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Going a step further, by all accounts he is a genuinely good guy, hard worker, high character, and never mentally checked out this season despite the lack of targets and involvement. I'm cautiously optimistic he will come around and produce more in future seasons.

Who are the "missed on both LBs" you are referencing? Having a hard time figuring out who those two are, since there wasn't a big investment made at the position recently, in either FA or the draft (unless you count Judon, who is more of a true EDGE, and he certainly was not a "miss").

When you are the highest paid Free agent at your position and play like 7th round scrub, you damn well can call him a miss.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

You cannot call Smith a miss at this point. He had a disappointing first season over the course of a contract that runs 4 years. He might bust here, but based on his play on TEN I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Going a step further, by all accounts he is a genuinely good guy, hard worker, high character, and never mentally checked out this season despite the lack of targets and involvement. I'm cautiously optimistic he will come around and produce more in future seasons.

Who are the "missed on both LBs" you are referencing? Having a hard time figuring out who those two are, since there wasn't a big investment made at the position recently, in either FA or the draft (unless you count Judon, who is more of a true EDGE, and he certainly was not a "miss").

Judon imo was the best free agent sign in the NFL this year. Bengals signing Hendrickson was also good.

 

[spacecrime]

Shhh you can't say anything bad about BB drafting. Even if Your right 2020 was one of his worst drafts. Dugger & Onwenu being his only productive players. While 2021 was one of his best.

Not one of his better drafts, but Dugger, Uche, Onwenu, and Herron played significant time, and three others are still on the team. That's seven drafted players from the draft 2 years ago that are still on the team. How many other teams can make that claim of their draft picks? Our first pick was 37 (Dugger)

jury is still out on Jennings and Keene

Not necessarily you (I sometimes gloss over who said what when it's hyperbole), but some guys are very quick to label players busts, wastes of a draft pick, and someone here is quick to use the term garbage for anyone who doesn't burst on the scene.

Being hurt to start a career is never good, but that doesn't mean they can't play well yet.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Not one of his better drafts, but Dugger, Uche, Onwenu, and Herron played significant time, and three others are still on the team. That's seven drafted players from the draft 2 years ago that are still on the team. How many other teams can make that claim of their draft picks? Our first pick was 37 (Dugger)

jury is still out on Jennings and Keene

Not necessarily you (I sometimes gloss over who said what when it's hyperbole), but some guys are very quick to label players busts, wastes of a draft pick, and someone here is quick to use the term garbage for anyone who doesn't burst on the scene.

Being hurt to start a career is never good, but that doesn't mean they can't play well yet.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head about guys being dismissed as busts way too early. Damien Harris and James White are cases in point, and there are plenty of others.

 

[Phil Elliott]

When you are the highest paid Free agent at your position and play like 7th round scrub, you damn well can call him a miss.

Too early.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

When you are the highest paid Free agent at your position and play like 7th round scrub, you damn well can call him a miss.

BB did overpay for a few players this offseason. I won't argue with you there.

 

[1970Dart]

It really isn't that hard to find the right WR1. We've found dozens of them in the last 7 years only to see them passed over in the draft.
The problem has been BB's unwillingness to expend the draft capital until Caserio's clusterf*k with Harry. That was and still is a shocker.
But there's no doubt in my mind that BB can identify the good ones in the draft.

Maybe he thought TFB was good enough to get results without one.
If that's true, and I think it is, maybe BB will feel differently about 2nd year Mac Jones and get him a guy.
I hope so. There's not a single position that would change the fortunes for the Pats next year than a WR who makes this O hum.

TFB, had Moss, lost Super Bowl, then he got Brandin Cooks, lost Super Bowl. A true WR1 back then didn't work out so well for us.

But I do agree with you about Jones, he is a different QB and getting him that guy isn't a bad thing. What I meant was, the Pats offensive playbook is a complex one (arguably the most complex) and it asks more of the WR's than others teams do. Not every WR is going to be that WR in this system. Moss had the rare combination of talent and brains and thrived in this system. Chad Ochocinco, sucked moose balls. That is what I really meant by easier said than done. I know many talented WR's have been passed up by us, I guess I am always skeptical because of the past track record.

 

[1970Dart]

Yes, it is. Every year we see guys disappoint who were highly regarded and vice-versa.

N'Keal Harry obviously didn't work out but that doesn't mean that due to that disaster Belichick will never
approve of another WR being selected with a premium pick. The Patriots seem to do the unexpected every year and
Bill will never be motivated by fear to make another mistake or seek approval, public or otherwise in order to secure
his job, reputation or "legacy" as some people like to say.

If the right guy is there, he'll turn in the card for them. He knows what he has in Mac and the difference one special athlete
can make to the overall offense and the fortunes of his team.

Anybody that says Bill will never take a WR with any pick, high or low, doesn't know what they're talking about. Maybe last year's
draft signifies a change in the way things are done and we'll make it two in a row this April and Mac Jones has earned
himself a shiny, new toy.

I know he has gone after receivers, Bethel Johnson, Givens, Branch etc.
I also agree that it doesn't mean BB won't go after another WR in the draft in the first or even second round. In fact, if he feels the right WR is in this draft and they were going to be drafted in the teens, I am confident BB would try everything in his power to move up and go after that player.

 

[1970Dart]

Agreed, the draft is inconsistent from year to anyway. The problem the team faces now is that Bill had three of his worst drafts back to back, that's just the reality of the situation. The spending spree helped, and it looks like he nailed this past draft, but we are still playing make up for his failures.

Some players are improving though, Dugger, he is by no means a stud, but he is becoming a solid starter. He showed a lot of growth this year. Jennings the jury is still out on. He can't seem to stay healthy enough for anyone to get an opinion. Uche, also shows flashes. This past draft, I agree was a big success at least the first 3 picks. Hopefully that trend continues.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Uche disappeared after first 2 games 12 tks 3 sacks. Asiasi was active for 1 game. Keene & Jenning have mostly been injuried. Herron is a quality Back up tackle.

And Wino is...well, nobody knows that yet.

 

[spacecrime]

I put Wino in same category as Uche . Only shown Flashes. Right now no matter how many times. People try to sugar coat it. All the facts are pointing to a bad draft .

Flashes so they can do it. Next we see if they can do it consistently. Calling Smith a bust after his first season the the Pats' passing offense is premature, IMO.

 

[Phil Elliott]

BB did overpay for a few players this offseason. I won't argue with you there.

But, once again with Belichick, he seemingly can't win the public opinion FA game. He's often been accused of being too cheap to re-sign some guys or acquire quality ones from elsewhere. Then, when goes on a spree, as he did last offseason, he's accused of reckless spending. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

But, once again with Belichick, he seemingly can't win the public opinion FA game. He's often been accused of being too cheap to re-sign some guys or acquire quality ones from elsewhere. Then, when goes on a spree, as he did last offseason, he's accused of reckless spending. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Do you agree with BB by giving Agholor, Smith, Mills, Bourne, Godchaux that much money? He never had to pay them that much. He did have to pay Judon and Henry that much, so I'm not going to complain on their deals.

 

[Gumpboy45]

Watching the playoffs this year I think our offense can be good enough. We have to load up on defense. Go all in for next year draft and all and get speed.