Patriots Offseason 2022

vertigho

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I really like Jordan Davis and if he's available in the late-1st, I'm fully onboard with trading up to get him (after we make our first selection). Initially I was dead-set on the 1st round pick being an ILB, although after listening to Lazar I am warming up to the idea of a man coverage CB.

Obviously all of this is contingent on a lot of different things, and if a quality ILB, DL, or CB is available in FA, respectively, one or two of those spots may not be a priority during the draft. And then you have to factor in depth of talent and relative drop-offs in quality of players at those positions, which depends on how things go that cannot be predicted.

At any rate, Davis would be cool. I won't be mad about that pick if he ends up being it. But I might prefer a CB or elite ILB.
 

Hawg73

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I've watched Davis a fair bit and he's probably going to be a good NFL player for somebody.

The first thing I noticed is that he's huge, which is hard to miss and he often caves in whatever section of the line he targets. He's fun to watch. What took me a while to notice is that he can
move pretty quick for a guy around 370. He's aggressive and can be nasty. On the downside, he's mostly upper body with relatively slim calves and seems to lose his balance fairly often. He can appear a bit clumsy at times. I don't know if he'll be able to bull rush NFL linemen like he did SEC guys, even though he's played a number of big boys with talent.

Bear in mind that a lot of guys who are sure-fire 1st rounders in mid-January become 3rd or 4th rounders by April and vice-versa. Davis is a big-name guy from the Champions
and big name guys always get the early mentions. My guess at this time is that Davis drops out of the 1st round conversation because he won't test great.

It's a process, but at least mocking Davis to us makes some sense. The question is whether he's going to be another Ted Washington/Vince Woolfork and shut down the inside run for over a decade or be one of dozens of other huge run-stopper types drafted high that were never able to distinguish themselves from the NFL herd.
 

1970Dart

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You could really say this about a dozen wrs we either drafted or picked up in FA over the last 20 years. I think it's clear that Bill doesn't value the position the way other GM's do, and if looking at it objectively I guess we can't say it hurt us in the grand scheme of things. What will be interesting to see is if that philosophy had more to do with his faith in Brady to get more from less or it's just the way he views the position.
BB, does do a lot evaluating on himself as well. He adapts with the times, look at 2007 or even the year we had Cooks, the year we lost to the Iggles. Either way, he did draft Harry, unfortunately he didn't work out. I think he values the position enough where he has tried to address the issue. Many just haven't worked out but he has tried.
 

1970Dart

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Add me to the list of people that want a true No. 1 WR who can fly, get open and catch the tough ones to make our offense go.

We don't need to scrap the current depth chart, but one guy that can dictate coverage and draw a top DB (or a couple) would change
the fortunes of our current guys for the better. Sure, we need to replace Hightower and add DBs as top priorities, but I'm not sure
if there is a single more important element to add to take advantage of Mac's unique skillset and benefit the entire team.

One guy-- the right guy --- could make that offense go and I think Belichick will agree, for a change. We'll see how that goes. It's time
for opponents to fear our air game and, in the process, open up the ground game, too. Too many teams still live in the box against us
and I've had enough of that to last me for a while.
Finding that one guy, the right guy is easier said than done though.
 

Hawg73

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Finding that one guy, the right guy is easier said than done though.
Yes, it is. Every year we see guys disappoint who were highly regarded and vice-versa.

N'Keal Harry obviously didn't work out but that doesn't mean that due to that disaster Belichick will never
approve of another WR being selected with a premium pick. The Patriots seem to do the unexpected every year and
Bill will never be motivated by fear to make another mistake or seek approval, public or otherwise in order to secure
his job, reputation or "legacy" as some people like to say.

If the right guy is there, he'll turn in the card for them. He knows what he has in Mac and the difference one special athlete
can make to the overall offense and the fortunes of his team.

Anybody that says Bill will never take a WR with any pick, high or low, doesn't know what they're talking about. Maybe last year's
draft signifies a change in the way things are done and we'll make it two in a row this April and Mac Jones has earned
himself a shiny, new toy.
 
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chevss454

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Finding that one guy, the right guy is easier said than done though.

Yes, it is. Every year we see guys disappoint who were highly regarded and vice-versa.

N'Keal Harry obviously didn't work out but that doesn't mean that due to that disaster Belichick will never
approve of another WR being selected with a premium pick. The Patriots seem to do the unexpected every year and
Bill will never be motivated by fear to make another mistake or seek approval, public or otherwise in order to secure
his job, reputation or "legacy" as some people like to say.

If the right guy is there, he'll turn in the card for them. He knows what he has in Mac and the difference one special athlete
can make to the overall offense and the fortunes of his team.

Anybody that says Bill will never take a WR with any pick, high or low, doesn't know what they're talking about. Maybe last year's
draft signifies a change in the way things are done and we'll make it two in a row this April and Mac Jones has earned
himself a shiny, new toy.

It really isn't that hard to find the right WR1. We've found dozens of them in the last 7 years only to see them passed over in the draft.
The problem has been BB's unwillingness to expend the draft capital until Caserio's clusterf*k with Harry. That was and still is a shocker.
But there's no doubt in my mind that BB can identify the good ones in the draft.

Maybe he thought TFB was good enough to get results without one.
If that's true, and I think it is, maybe BB will feel differently about 2nd year Mac Jones and get him a guy.
I hope so. There's not a single position that would change the fortunes for the Pats next year than a WR who makes this O hum.
 

foobahl

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It really isn't that hard to find the right WR1. We've found dozens of them in the last 7 years only to see them passed over in the draft.
The problem has been BB's unwillingness to expend the draft capital until Caserio's clusterf*k with Harry. That was and still is a shocker.
But there's no doubt in my mind that BB can identify the good ones in the draft.

Maybe he thought TFB was good enough to get results without one.
If that's true, and I think it is, maybe BB will feel differently about 2nd year Mac Jones and get him a guy.
I hope so. There's not a single position that would change the fortunes for the Pats next year than a WR who makes this O hum.
And that is an argument, but the Randy Moss SB year, that offense hummed all season. 18-1 still sucks. I still would rather have a partner for Barmore an LB and another cb before a wr. Agholor will be in a contract year, I still would consider Jonnu/Assiasi/Keene as a FB. Trade Wynn and Harry for a taco bell breakfast sammich. A wr corp of Agholor, Bourne, Meyer, Wilkerson with Nixon/Perry on the PS.
 

Grogan

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BB, does do a lot evaluating on himself as well. He adapts with the times, look at 2007 or even the year we had Cooks, the year we lost to the Iggles. Either way, he did draft Harry, unfortunately he didn't work out. I think he values the position enough where he has tried to address the issue. Many just haven't worked out but he has tried.
Agreed, the draft is inconsistent from year to anyway. The problem the team faces now is that Bill had three of his worst drafts back to back, that's just the reality of the situation. The spending spree helped, and it looks like he nailed this past draft, but we are still playing make up for his failures.
 

ParanoidPatriot

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Agreed, the draft is inconsistent from year to anyway. The problem the team faces now is that Bill had three of his worst drafts back to back, that's just the reality of the situation. The spending spree helped, and it looks like he nailed this past draft, but we are still playing make up for his failures.
Owenu, Herron, Dugger were not bad picks. We still don't know about Jennings, as he was on IR. Dugger looks like he is going to be a stud.
 

Grogan

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It really isn't that hard to find the right WR1. We've found dozens of them in the last 7 years only to see them passed over in the draft.
The problem has been BB's unwillingness to expend the draft capital until Caserio's clusterf*k with Harry. That was and still is a shocker.
But there's no doubt in my mind that BB can identify the good ones in the draft.

Maybe he thought TFB was good enough to get results without one.
If that's true, and I think it is, maybe BB will feel differently about 2nd year Mac Jones and get him a guy.
I hope so. There's not a single position that would change the fortunes for the Pats next year than a WR who makes this O hum.
Wait a second, it wasn't "Casererio's" cluster fuck with Harry, multiple sources have stated that none of the scouts wanted Harry with that pick. No matter what you believe, Bill has last say. If you want give Bill the credit for what appears to be nailing this past draft, then you're going to have to also blame him for the previous three drafts. The entire reason we had to spend 160 million is because Bill's complete and utter failure in those drafts. Let's not forget, what we are looking for now is what he failed to get in those drafts.
 

Grogan

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Owenu, Herron, Dugger were not bad picks. We still don't know about Jennings, as he was on IR. Dugger looks like he is going to be a stud.
No, but out of three drafts you are going to need to produce more than a couple role players and marginal starter. I'm sorry for the Bill apologists but if you want to give him the credit when he succeeds, then you have to give him the blame when he fails. We had 3 consecutive drafts that produced almost nothing in decernable talent, certainly no game changers, as result we are still looking to fill the positions he missed on. That's just the truth of the situation.
 

ParanoidPatriot

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No, but out of three drafts you are going to need to produce more than a couple role players and marginal starter. I'm sorry for the Bill apologists but if you want to give him the credit when he succeeds, then you have to give him the blame when he fails. We had 3 consecutive drafts that produced almost nothing in decernable talent, certainly no game changers, as result we are still looking to fill the positions he missed on. That's just the truth of the situation.
Who is the marginal starter that you are talking about? If you are talking about Dugger, he's far better than a marginal starter.
I am not a Bill apologist. I'm a guy who gives players 3 years before I call them bust.
Yes, the to previous drafts were not good.
 

Grogan

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Who is the marginal starter that you are talking about? If you are talking about Dugger, he's far better than a marginal starter.
I am not a Bill apologist. I'm a guy who gives players 3 years before I call them bust.
Yes, the to previous drafts were not good.
Statistically Dugger is the definition of a marginal starter right now, it's not even debatable. I like Dugger, and I think his talent lends toward a great deal of potential, but he's not their yet, and he may never be. My point remains, even if Dugger becomes a pro Bowl level safety, it's simply not enough out of three draft classes.
 

ParanoidPatriot

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Statistically Dugger is the definition of a marginal starter right now, it's not even debatable. I like Dugger, and I think his talent lends toward a great deal of potential, but he's not their yet, and he may never be. My point remains, even if Dugger becomes a pro Bowl level safety, it's simply not enough out of three draft classes.
I disagree. Dugger is a solid starter. I don't care about stats, I use my eyes.

Don't forget that the Patriots have been drafting at the bottom of the draft up until last year.
 

Grogan

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I disagree. Dugger is a solid starter. I don't care about stats, I use my eyes.

Don't forget that the Patriots have been drafting at the bottom of the draft up until last year.

I disagree. Dugger is a solid starter. I don't care about stats, I use my eyes.

Don't forget that the Patriots have been drafting at the bottom of the draft up until last year.
You can disagree all you like, just because he flashes from time to time doesn't make him a stud. Constant play over seasons with game changing impact make a player a stud, and Dugger simply has not done that. As for drafting at the bottom of the draft, we've been doing that for 20 years, so it's no excuse.
 
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chevss454

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Wait a second, it wasn't "Casererio's" cluster fuck with Harry, multiple sources have stated that none of the scouts wanted Harry with that pick. No matter what you believe, Bill has last say. If you want give Bill the credit for what appears to be nailing this past draft, then you're going to have to also blame him for the previous three drafts. The entire reason we had to spend 160 million is because Bill's complete and utter failure in those drafts. Let's not forget, what we are looking for now is what he failed to get in those drafts.

I know for certain that Caserio hand picked Harry and asked that he be able to draft him. He was given the ok in the same way a parent might give a son the keys to the car.
As a matter of fact, I can tell you that BB was in the process of letting Caserio handle the drafts, little by little, for each of those years you're speaking about. BB hoped he would do a good job to lighten his own load. It wasn't working out so well for BB.
I can also say their was a general sigh of relief, including from Kraft, when BB took full control of the draft, the scouts, their duties and their methods after Caserio left.
I cannot tell you how I know this except to say I am friends with people high inside Gillette.
 
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