Patriots Weaknesses

[Big/Sky/Fly]

I want to answer the question, I really do, but I just don't have any faith that what I might see as a weakness now will stay that way for long.

Bill just stacks up layers of people that can get the job done and somehow they do. Even if they seem inadequate they step it up and get respectable.

Coaching. I think our problem might be the D will miss the guy who will guide Miami to the bottom of the division this season.

It/s crazy that one guy can contribute that much of a turn around from the "rocket scientist"...is it more just circumstantial? I dunno...either way, the defense was WAY better last year than years before. Overall scheme? :shrug_n:

Who is the new guy anyway?

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

If Malik Gant was the highest rated safety... Why wasn’t he drafted?

Ratings are like assholes...and all of that jazz...

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Who knows? D2maine was talking about TEs, but what he said applies across the board: coaches and GMs have info and insights into which we and the mediots are not privy. Sometimes I think a team is willing to sign a guy who might have issues as an UDFA but not be willing to draft the guy. I don't know why, though. BB basically blew off two late seventh rounders then signed a bunch of UDFAs, including Gant and Meyers. Maybe we'll find out in OTAs or tc.

Perhaps they WERE looking at a few TE/s...but, other teams already drafted their "binkies"?

This was my POV. I wasn/t even trying to be a dick...mostly.

 

[Defsoul]

If Malik Gant was the highest rated safety... Why wasn’t he drafted?

I don't think Pro Football Focus adjusts its grades for competition. Gant might have 'led all draft-eligible FBS safeties with at least 400 defensive snaps played in overall grade (90.7) in 2018. He also ranked second in run-defense grade (90.1) and fourth in coverage grade (89.4)'. But Gant was ranked 182nd on PFFs big board. So they were not that high on him, even though he graded well in their system.

He received a prospect grade of 5.45 on NFL.com, projecting as a 'NFL backup or special teams potential'.

 

[chevss454]

If Malik Gant was the highest rated safety... Why wasn’t he drafted?

1. College grades don't imply NFL grades against NFL talent; the transition isn't always smooth and scheme fit is everything.

2. We're not privy to intangibles: background, psychological profiles, motivation, character, smarts, etc. - they all count.

3. A fatal flaw: not an elite athlete, lack of ball skills to anticipate routes, poor range, too aggressive at times, limited positional versatility (he's an in the box safety) all apply to Gant. (At the same time, he's a great tackler who anticipates runs very well & can cover TEs pretty well. That pretty much sums up Patrick Chung in my mind. Give him a role and he may be great at it. BB is good at utilizing players strengths and hiding weaknesses. We don't see Chung deep downfield in coverage any more.)

Why did he fall to udfa?

IDK. Pick one?

 

[chevss454]

Guessing the 53 man roster is kind of silly before camp even begins but it's still kind of fun and also serves as a temporary 90 man depth chart for inevitable injuries and for new additions before game 1.

 

[jayShomp]

Sure, every position is a question mark in one way or another. Injuries suck. I can't imagine any team ever being so set in their entire team that a slew of injuries won't kill them. But I do thing that the Pats have fewer questions and more depth overall than the rest of the league.

Who is talking about the entire team? I'm just talking about the WR position which you said is better than last year's and I say that's impossible to say right now. An older achilles torn WR who has been very soft at times doesn't excite me sorry. And yeah I guess you can say every position is a question mark but that's a cop out answer. If the Pats traded for proven WRs like a Thielen or JJones(not saying they could have) it would be much less of a question mark wouldn't you say?

They have to actually prove they are a better WR group than last season before I say they are but that's just me. Their ceiling is higher for sure but they have a lower floor too.

 

[mooseontheloose]

It/s crazy that one guy can contribute that much of a turn around from the "rocket scientist"...is it more just circumstantial? I dunno...either way, the defense was WAY better last year than years before. Overall scheme? :shrug_n:

Who is the new guy anyway?

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------



Ratings are like assholes...and all of that jazz...

I'd have to look again, but wasn't the D mediocre to begin the year?

Definitely though the difference in the playoffs was astounding.

 

[mikiemo83]

ownership's weakness is a little different...

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[spacecrime]

This was my POV. I wasn/t even trying to be a dick...mostly.

Ha ha. As the scarecrow said in The WIzard of Oz, "That's me all over." Mostly.

 

[spacecrime]

I'd have to look again, but wasn't the D mediocre to begin the year?

Definitely though the difference in the playoffs was astounding.

It seems every year the Pats are mediocre to start the year and we go all Chicken Little. Then they get better and even when they don't win it all they have morphed into a superior team.

I much prefer this to 2002 when we started gangbusters and went downhill form October on.

BUt yeah, this is the time of year when we find problems everywhere, noting that this guy and that guy and all the rest either suck or are unproven, having done nothing in the NFL. Then, miraculously, guys step up and we're good to go until next spring, when we find problems all over the map.

 

[John Locke]

It seems every year the Pats are mediocre to start the year and we go all Chicken Little. Then they get better and even when they don't win it all they have morphed into a superior team.

I much prefer this to 2002 when we started gangbusters and went downhill form October on.

BUt yeah, this is the time of year when we find problems everywhere, noting that this guy and that guy and all the rest either suck or are unproven, having done nothing in the NFL. Then, miraculously, guys step up and we're good to go until next spring, when we find problems all over the map.

This.

 

[mikiemo83]

biggest weakness on this team, as it currently stands, is coaching experience on the defensive side of the ball.

Scar, josh, fears... the offense has a steady supply of old school coaches but the defense is missing experience (and I am not including Bill in the defensive grouping but I figure he is the DC with Josh getting a huge boost in control of the offense).

 

[grog]

biggest weakness on this team, as it currently stands, is coaching experience on the defensive side of the ball.

Scar, josh, fears... the offense has a steady supply of old school coaches but the defense is missing experience (and I am not including Bill in the defensive grouping but I figure he is the DC with Josh getting a huge boost in control of the offense).

If McDaniel's is being groomed to be head coach again someday, he should get some experience on defensive side too, no?

hope we stay more aggressive on defense this year, but we won't. We will save that for the post season and play fairly straight-up during the regular season.

 

[chevss454]

If McDaniel's is being groomed to be head coach again someday, he should get some experience on defensive side too, no?

hope we stay more aggressive on defense this year, but we won't. We will save that for the post season and play fairly straight-up during the regular season.

Maybe but teams won't be surprised this year. They'll be expecting it.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

I'd have to look again, but wasn't the D mediocre to begin the year?

Definitely though the difference in the playoffs was astounding.

Yeah...that 's what I meant.

 

[EasyBigFella]

biggest weakness on this team, as it currently stands, is coaching experience on the defensive side of the ball.

Whether it's Crennel or Flores, this is Belichick's defense. Those guys may hold a DC title, but Belichick is the de facto DC

 

[John Locke]

Whether it's Crennel or Flores, this is Belichick's defense. Those guys may hold a DC title, but Belichick is the de facto DC

You may be correct. But what I question is why the different approaches under different DCs?

 

[Giant Octopodes]

Who is talking about the entire team? I'm just talking about the WR position which you said is better than last year's and I say that's impossible to say right now. An older achilles torn WR who has been very soft at times doesn't excite me sorry. And yeah I guess you can say every position is a question mark but that's a cop out answer. If the Pats traded for proven WRs like a Thielen or JJones(not saying they could have) it would be much less of a question mark wouldn't you say?

They have to actually prove they are a better WR group than last season before I say they are but that's just me. Their ceiling is higher for sure but they have a lower floor too.

Respectfully I have to disagree. Let's look at the roster changes from last year for that group:

OUT

Chris Hogan- 35 Receptions, 532 yards, 3 TDs. Zero TDs in the playoffs, zero Catches in the Super Bowl. He was a minimal factor in the passing game. He averaged 2 catches for 30 yards with a touchdown a bit less than every 4 games.

Cordarrell Patterson- 21 Receptions, 247 yards, 3 TDs. 0 TDs in the playoffs and an average of 10 receiving yards per game in the playoffs. He was fun to watch, but better as a punt return specialist and running back than a receiver. He averaged just under 1.5 catches per game for 15 yards, also with a TD every 4 games.

STILL THERE

Julian Edelman- 74 receptions, 850 yards, 6 TDs. Super Bowl MVP. He averaged 6 catches a game for 70 yards with a TD more than once every other game. He is not suspended for the first 4 games of the year, so we get 4/3 as many games with him.

Phillip Dorsett- 32 receptions for 290 yards, 3 TDs. TDs in both the divisional round and AFC championship game. He is still here.

Matthew Slater- We all know what the deal is with him, but he's on this list because he's technically listed as a WR on the roster.

NEW

Demariyus Thomas- Last year had 59 receptions, for 677 yards and 5 TDs, while being traded mid season and injured. Mind you, though he may be a "wide receiver coming off an ACL on the wrong side of 30", so was Edelman last year. He's actually a year younger. I'm not saying he plays game 1, or at all. But he alone is as good or better than either of the two we lost, and if he's not on the field, it's because they found someone even better.

Josh Gordon- He was not on the roster last year. He is this year. Last year he came in while the season was already underway, with zero expectations.
While on the field for 11 games, he got 40 receptions, 720 yards, and 3 TDs. He may do the same this year. He may do nothing. Best of luck to him in his struggles. But regardless, he's a talented wide receiver who was not on our roster last year but is now.

N'Keal Harry- I'm not saying he's going to get 70+ receptions for over 1000 yards and threaten double digit TDs. Heck, I'm not even going to assume he makes the Patriots roster. However, you'd have to be fooling yourself to not see him as tremendously better than either Hogan or Patterson as a receiver.

And Friends- Last year, the Patriots made 34 moves at wide receiver. 34. They were clearly looking for upgrades and kept striking out. This meant they were left with a roster they were clearly not excessively satisfied with, and were still making moves even while the season was underway. Between that, the Edelman suspension, and Brady skipping OTAs, the wide receiver group last year was a little rough. I'm not expecting them to make 34 moves this year, but I am certain that they will ensure there is competition and they have the best people they can at that position.

My point? Last year was in my opinion pretty close to the floor already. I'm quite confident they Already have a better roster than they did last year, and these guys have a Chance to spend the entire offseason learning the playbook. If they can't, the Patriots will find someone who can. We only lost 2 wide receivers who were actually on the roster at the start of the season last year, and neither of them was particularly great anyway. So it's pretty hard Not to move up, imho.

 

[mikiemo83]

Ha ha. As the scarecrow said in The WIzard of Oz, "That's me all over." Mostly.

sounds like Bobby Babushka in the Orchids video I saw.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Respectfully I have to disagree. Let's look at the roster changes from last year for that group:

OUT

Chris Hogan- 35 Receptions, 532 yards, 3 TDs. Zero TDs in the playoffs, zero Catches in the Super Bowl. He was a minimal factor in the passing game. He averaged 2 catches for 30 yards with a touchdown a bit less than every 4 games.

Cordarrell Patterson- 21 Receptions, 247 yards, 3 TDs. 0 TDs in the playoffs and an average of 10 receiving yards per game in the playoffs. He was fun to watch, but better as a punt return specialist and running back than a receiver. He averaged just under 1.5 catches per game for 15 yards, also with a TD every 4 games.

STILL THERE

Julian Edelman- 74 receptions, 850 yards, 6 TDs. Super Bowl MVP. He averaged 6 catches a game for 70 yards with a TD more than once every other game. He is not suspended for the first 4 games of the year, so we get 4/3 as many games with him.

Phillip Dorsett- 32 receptions for 290 yards, 3 TDs. TDs in both the divisional round and AFC championship game. He is still here.

Matthew Slater- We all know what the deal is with him, but he's on this list because he's technically listed as a WR on the roster.

NEW

Demariyus Thomas- Last year had 59 receptions, for 677 yards and 5 TDs, while being traded mid season and injured. Mind you, though he may be a "wide receiver coming off an ACL on the wrong side of 30", so was Edelman last year. He's actually a year younger. I'm not saying he plays game 1, or at all. But he alone is as good or better than either of the two we lost, and if he's not on the field, it's because they found someone even better.

Josh Gordon- He was not on the roster last year. He is this year. Last year he came in while the season was already underway, with zero expectations.
While on the field for 11 games, he got 40 receptions, 720 yards, and 3 TDs. He may do the same this year. He may do nothing. Best of luck to him in his struggles. But regardless, he's a talented wide receiver who was not on our roster last year but is now.

N'Keal Harry- I'm not saying he's going to get 70+ receptions for over 1000 yards and threaten double digit TDs. Heck, I'm not even going to assume he makes the Patriots roster. However, you'd have to be fooling yourself to not see him as tremendously better than either Hogan or Patterson as a receiver.

And Friends- Last year, the Patriots made 34 moves at wide receiver. 34. They were clearly looking for upgrades and kept striking out. This meant they were left with a roster they were clearly not excessively satisfied with, and were still making moves even while the season was underway. Between that, the Edelman suspension, and Brady skipping OTAs, the wide receiver group last year was a little rough. I'm not expecting them to make 34 moves this year, but I am certain that they will ensure there is competition and they have the best people they can at that position.

My point? Last year was in my opinion pretty close to the floor already. I'm quite confident they Already have a better roster than they did last year, and these guys have a Chance to spend the entire offseason learning the playbook. If they can't, the Patriots will find someone who can. We only lost 2 wide receivers who were actually on the roster at the start of the season last year, and neither of them was particularly great anyway. So it's pretty hard Not to move up, imho.

Demaryius Thomas is an Achilles. Not ACL. Factors even more on explosive movements. Longer, more difficult heal than ACL. I’m hopeful he can be a semblance of his highest self. But it won’t surprise me if he never comes back fully.

Josh Gordon. Love the guy. Some is in his control -abstaining. Some is in the leagues. And they’ve already kept him on ice for 1 full calendar season. Who knows what lies ahead.

N’Keal Harry. Rookie. We have no idea. Don’t know if he can or will ever grasp the playbook. If he does and continues his development he’ll be AWESOME. But others have come here, had a look, and collapsed.