Peyton, Brady, Mac and Greatness

The debate raged for years during the most bitter and beautiful rivalry I've seen in professional football, who was better Manning or Brady. The focus was mainly on the players to a good degree as it should be but there many other factors that play into this debate

I have heard many wonder if Peyton would have been considered far greater than Tom had he had a great defense.

I think not.

From seeing it up close and personal for over 20 years I think it is the fundamental difference is in organizational philosophy, not just the defense.

The team of Kraft and Hoodie are second to none in NFL history. This organization just bleeds and breeds success flowing from its fundamental principles.

Bill, I assert afforded Brady the environment, coaches, and direction to develop and he handled him to perfection, it's what he does, gets the most out of all his players.

That takes nothing away from Tom cuz it was on him to develop in that situation. It was his heart, fire, and driven determination that made him the GOAT.

I have seen only one other player with Tom's level of drive and incredible will to win and that was Michael Jordan.

One major difference though, MJ was phenomenally gifted athletically, Brady, not so much. LOL.

But much like Tom, he had that fire and they were more clutch than any other players I can think of. When it’s all on the line they kick it into another insane gear, a level of focus and athletic skill second to none, and nailed it far more often than not.

Peyton had the gifts and the pedigree and training but it seems he was lacking somewhere in that realm. Still a helluva QB. One of the greatest to ever toss a pigskin.

Bottom line, Brady started out solid, developed into the all-world player, second to none but it was Bob Kraft and Bill Belichick who created the culture of winning and the perfect environment for Brady.

Now, as the dynasty enters its 3rd iteration let’s see what they do with Mac Jones. He has every chance and skill to be one of the all-time greats. It’s up to him.
 
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I won't get too far into this as much as I love @johnlocke and I love a good debate, more less just because I have been there done this debate too much and it always ends nasty hahahaa. I have no problem admitting Brady is the GOAT with Peyton right behind.

The only thing I will add here that really tarnishes Manning (outside of the obvious, Brady has way more SB's) is how he was one and done early in his career. For 8 years, he only had one conf final to show for all his efforts (very similar to Luck actually) It wasn't until 2006 that Peyton went to a SB and won, and then returned 3 years later, and then returned 3 years later after that, and 2 years later. So I guess the last 10 years of his career he went to 4 Super Bowl's and won 2 which is a very nice stat, but starting your career with the one and done's he had really hurt. Another thing that hurt was the one and done against the Chargers in 07 and 08. 07 wasn't as big of a deal because they would have lost to the Patriots in the Conf final anyway, but 08 hurt a lot. Colts won 12 straight and lost to a 8-8 Chargers team, in which they beat in the regular season. BLA!!!!! Losing to the Chargers in 07 without Rivers in the second half, and to the 8-8 Chargers in 08 in my opinion is much worse than losing to the damn Pats in 03 and 04. Patriots were a dynasty and a tough team to beat who had the advantage with the weather. Chargers didn't have any advantage, it was unacceptable to lose to that team two years in a row.

Anyway, I am going to go and drink some coffee now.


Thanks for your perspective, my friend.
 
You all have no idea how insufferable I will be if we have even 3 years in a row of success. :4321::rofl:
This could be the Jags year..... Titans will be tough, but the division is so up in the air. Texans will be god awful again, and the Colts will have a rookie (whether it's Eason or Ehlinger) starting at QB. In my opinion, this is the first time in years the division has a huge question mark. If I was a betting man, I would put money on the Titans again, but the Jags best chance to compete is this year.
 
Wanna fight? :rofl:

This could be an epic Brady/Manning debate for years to come. It's up to them what they do, I just know that Mac was drafted into the golden land of opportunity to develop his skillset and matches perfectly with this organizational philosophy. Do the Jags even have one? :)
Variation on old lawyer meme.: If you don't have the facts and you don have the law, then pound on the podium.

Cheers
 
Variation on old lawyer meme.: If you don't have the facts and you don have the law, then pound on the podium.

Cheers

Didn't F. Lee Bailey have a tendency to drop this from form time to time?
 
He was a major factor, no doubt. But, your question just highlights the tunnel vision of Brady ball washers like you. Here's a question for you: how many new players were on the TB 53 man squad from 2019 to 2020?
 
He was a major factor, no doubt. But, your question just highlights the tunnel vision of Brady ball washers like you. Here's a question for you: how many new players were on the TB 53 man squad from 2019 to 2020?
Do you the definition of insanity. Their never going change their answer. They don't see a team just a player. Brady leadership & accomplishments speak for itself. That makes Brady the undisputed Goat.
 
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The debate raged for years during the most bitter and beautiful rivalry I've seen in professional football, who was better Manning or Brady. The focus was mainly on the players to a good degree as it should be but there many other factors that play into this debate

I have heard many wonder if Peyton would have been considered far greater than Tom had he had a great defense.

I think not.

From seeing it up close and personal for over 20 years I think it is the fundamental difference is in organizational philosophy, not just the defense.

The team of Kraft and Hoodie are second to none in NFL history. This organization just bleeds and breeds success flowing from its fundamental principles.

Bill, I assert afforded Brady the environment, coaches, and direction to develop and he handled him to perfection, it's what he does, gets the most out of all his players.

That takes nothing away from Tom cuz it was on him to develop in that situation. It was his heart, fire, and driven determination that made him the GOAT.

I have seen only one other player with Tom's level of drive and incredible will to win and that was Michael Jordan.

One major difference though, MJ was phenomenally gifted athletically, Brady, not so much. LOL.

But much like Tom, he had that fire and they were more clutch than any other players I can think of. When it’s all on the line they kick it into another insane gear, a level of focus and athletic skill second to none, and nailed it far more often than not.

Peyton had the gifts and the pedigree and training but it seems he was lacking somewhere in that realm. Still a helluva QB. One of the greatest to ever toss a pigskin.

Bottom line, Brady started out solid, developed into the all-world player, second to none but it was Bob Kraft and Bill Belichick who created the culture of winning and the perfect environment for Brady.

Now, as the dynasty enters its 3rd iteration let’s see what they do with Mac Jones. He has every chance and skill to be one of the all-time greats. It’s up to him.
Nailed it. I have a man crush on BB, because the decades of success in Football are frankly bloody amazing.

Re Brady and the will to win: He reminds me of those guys who make it into Special Ops across the world: they're obsessively meticulous, focused, calm under pressure, self aware (and aware of their faults).

Above all, though, they simply refuse to give up until they literally can't keep going.

Brady has that in spades and clearly inspires others around him to work hard.
 
Do you the definition of insanity. Their never going change their answer. They don't see a team just a player. Brady leadership & accomplishments speak for itself. That makes Brady the undisputed Goat.
You're right. Thank you. It doesn't matter one iota what type of argument is made or stance is taken with these people. They're incapable of being persuaded or moved off of their position: it was all Brady, none of the other players in the Patriots HOF mattered one iota, BB sucks at his job and, like everyone else, was just along for the free ride at Tommyland.
 
It was not luck on how the Pats came upon this duo. It was a great top-down organizational philosophy that brought them in and helped them flourish, These shits can suck it now with their consistent potshots at the employer that paved the way for their greatness. As an employer for many, many years I can say this without equivocation, any employee is expendabe but the right-thinking mind of a leader is indispensable. He creates the successful culture. Fly's in the ointment be damned.

 
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It was not luck on how the Pats came upon this duo. It was a great top-down organizational philosophy that brought them in and helped them flourish, These shits can suck it now with their consistent potshots at the employer that paved the way for their greatness. As an employer for many, many years I can say this without equivocation, any employed is expendable but the right-thinking mind of a leader is indispensable. He creates the successful culture. Fly's in the ointment be damned.


Childish article.
 
Childish article.
The ill-informed, infantile author of this puff piece probably needs to do a little research on who has disrespected whom in the Gronk/Patriots relationship. "Vroom, vroom" and waiting until after the draft to "retire." Yeah, and Bill really disrespected him by trading him to the place he requested to go. And finally, I'll always love and respect Gronk as a player, but comparing him to Michael Jordan is... Anyway, typical Florida hillbilly take on things.
 
You're right. Thank you. It doesn't matter one iota what type of argument is made or stance is taken with these people. They're incapable of being persuaded or moved off of their position: it was all Brady, none of the other players in the Patriots HOF mattered one iota, BB sucks at his job and, like everyone else, was just along for the free ride at Tommyland.
i don't even care to change minds, i just want the batsignal to stop working whenever one dares to state a negative about tb.
 
i don't even care to change minds, i just want the batsignal to stop working whenever one dares to state a negative about tb.

Ok ill bite. TFB in his current iteration is a douche and one im glad he is not associated with the Pats anymore.
 
It was not luck on how the Pats came upon this duo. It was a great top-down organizational philosophy that brought them in and helped them flourish, These shits can suck it now with their consistent potshots at the employer that paved the way for their greatness. As an employer for many, many years I can say this without equivocation, any employed is expendable but the right-thinking mind of a leader is indispensable. He creates the successful culture. Fly's in the ointment be damned.

The same thing on the fb site...yeah, this is nuts.
 
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