Positions to Upgrade in the Off-Season

[zeke mowatt]

OL
OC

 

[aloyouis]

Yes if you get a WR with explosive quickness. It would open up the offense for Jones. Just look at impact of Marcus jones on offense.

Why not play Marcus more on offense? His speed and evade-ability are ridiculous.

 

[chevss454]

with so many holes on the rest of the roster, still want to chase another WR? Team will keep declining chasing the same position every year and wasting FA $ or draft picks. They already have the #2 spent highest WR group and #1 most expensive TE group. Just burned a 2nd for Thornton.

I think with a fixed OLine (and zero upgrades to WR) and Bill O’Brien back, in 2023 Mac can put up something like 3500-4000 yards, 25-30 TDs, <10 INTs, and complete almost 70% of passes. That’d be good enough I think, paired with a rebolstered defense.

Yep.
A true WR1 makes all the difference. Their play making ability pulls coverage and elevates everyone else, including the QB and the running game. That's why I think the Pats will eventually need a true WR1 for our QB to take a leap.

I also think we need a Slot guy in the mold of Edelman/Welker as a dependable check down guy and security blanket. Guys with that kind of short area quickness can always get open for a nice gain. We're missing that right now.

I'd happily trade Bourne, Agholor and Parker for a Moss and an Edelman for reasons stated up above.

Btw, there's more to getting open than running the correct route full speed. The great WRs have fine tuned their route running with nuances of the game that befuddle their opponent.
Stutter steps mid stem, change of speed, double moves, stop & go's and head fakes do a lot to shake a defender. I've seen very little of these techniques from the Pats' WRs this year.
Those techniques should be an off season priority for our receivers, imo.

 

[thomas144]

There are two extremely obvious positions that aren’t even listed in this poll. One is the quarterback, as has been noted.

 

[aloyouis]

There are two extremely obvious positions that aren’t even listed in this poll. One is the quarterback, as has been noted.

Not the issue.

See: Patricia, Matthew, failure

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes if you get a WR with explosive quickness. It would open up the offense for Jones. Just look at impact of Marcus jones on offense.

love Marcus but what impact, the Pats were scoreless in the entire first half last game

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Why not play Marcus more on offense? His speed and evade-ability are ridiculous.

They absolutely should...

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Yep.
A true WR1 makes all the difference. Their play making ability pulls coverage and elevates everyone else, including the QB and the running game. That's why I think the Pats will eventually need a true WR1 for our QB to take a leap.

I also think we need a Slot guy in the mold of Edelman/Welker as a dependable check down guy and security blanket. Guys with that kind of short area quickness can always get open for a nice gain. We're missing that right now.

I'd happily trade Bourne, Agholor and Parker for a Moss and an Edelman for reasons stated up above.

Btw, there's more to getting open than running the correct route full speed. The great WRs have fine tuned their route running with nuances of the game that befuddle their opponent.
Stutter steps mid stem, change of speed, double moves, stop & go's and head fakes do a lot to shake a defender. I've seen very little of these techniques from the Pats' WRs this year.
Those techniques should be an off season priority for our receivers, imo.

They need a true #1 WR...agreed.

 

[Hawg73]

Interesting to see 2 votes for offensive guard. Anyone who voted that way care to elaborate?
Onwenu is a pro bowl talent and they just blew a 1st on Strange

I voted for Guard, simply because they are thin at the position and have nobody proven besides the starters, unless you consider Ferentz proven,
which is only true in terms of what he has proved in a negative sense.

Plus, you seem to state your opinions as facts a bit too often, imo.

Cole Strange will be a pro bowl player. More importantly, he will help us win a lot of games with his elite mobility, quickness and targeting in space. His talent is such that
an OC can design plays to take advantage of those skills because not many players in the league can do what he has already demonstrated. He's played almost
every snap at LG and has adapted fast to the NFL considering the leap he was required to make from Chattanooga. He's got one problem to address and that
is adding weight and muscle, which happens with a lot of really good linemen, such as Joe Thuney and, in particular, David Andrews.

Rarely does anyone come out of College and dominate at Guard, Quentin Nelson comes to mind, maybe Zack Martin, but Cole has had some outstanding games and also struggled at times, almost always against an oversized tank such as D.J. Reader on Saturday and Quinnen Williams a month back. He'll get bigger and stronger and be able to handle everything that comes his way before long.

I'm going to enjoy watching you be wrong on this one. You and Sean McVay.

Don't forget to remind us what you think about him regularly between now and next season, because it'll be more fun that way.

 

[jayShomp]

Why not play Marcus more on offense? His speed and evade-ability are ridiculous.

It is but I think he's too important on defense to use him any more than sparingly on O, especially next year if Jon Jones leaves.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

It is but I think he's too important on defense to use him any more than sparingly on O, especially next year if Jon Jones leaves.

He's pretty short for a CB (well, WR too)...but, fights like a fireball. I think he'd be better as a slot WR. But, he's pretty impressive most everywhere. I think he's best used all over the place.

 

[sg14]

It is but I think he's too important on defense to use him any more than sparingly on O, especially next year if Jon Jones leaves.

Lazar asked Marcus about playing WR.
Marcus said "sure but I'd rather play CB."

How about safety? He can tackle well and cover ground. And potentially minimize the height issue.

 

[chevss454]

The problem I see with our WRs is how similar they are to each other. Sure, Tyquan and Agholor are a little faster but they aren't targeted often in explosive plays which nullifies their speed.
Tyquan isn't ready yet and Agholor is who he has been his entire career. He's not getting better.

Here's the problem I see. Meyers, Bourne and Parker are roughly the same guy - 6'2", 210, have average speed and they're average route runners. Meyers is the best of the 3 at getting open because he runs the routes correctly. Bourne has natural ability but he makes too many route running mistakes to be trusted. We've all seen the spacing issues this year and most of the time Bourne is the guy who created that problem. That's why he he hasn't gotten on the field more. And Parker was misused early on go routes. So with a few exceptions, these 3, Meyers, Bourne and Parker are the same guy. None are a WR1.

How can a WR1 help?
Consider:
Josh Allen: instantly makes a huge leap in Year 3 when he gets Stefon Diggs
Jalen Hurts: instantly makes a huge leap in Year 3 when he gets AJ Brown
Tua: instantly makes a huge leap in Year 3 when he gets Tyreek Hill (and bc of Tyreek, Waddle has become a background player)
Kyler Murray: instantly makes a huge leap & actually looks legit when he gets Deandre Hopkins (and a huge contract)
TB12: set records with Moss in 2007

A true WR1 makes all the difference. Their play making ability pulls coverage and elevates everyone else, including the QB and the running game. That's why I think the Pats will eventually need a true WR1 for our QB to take a leap.

I also think we need a Slot guy in the mold of Edelman/Welker as a dependable check down guy and security blanket. Guys with that kind of short area quickness can always get open for a nice gain. We're missing that right now.

Here are examples of the spacing issues we've seen all year from just 1 game. Blame Mac? Not me.
It's not just the WRs. Jonnu Smith has his share of screw ups, too.

Top left is borderline but top right and bottom left show Bourne running the wrong route and impinging on another receiver.
Bourne is responsible for most of the spacing issues I've seen but he's not the only one.
Bottom right shows Jonnu Smith running the wrong route and colliding with Hunter Henry which injures both players. Smith is another repeat offender.
C'mon Man!

View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1607453790826807296


I lay blame 75% on the player. They should know the play book backwards and forwards by now. The route to run is elementary. Dumb players don't learn. (see Ochocinco).
Some players simply aren't smart enough to catch on. Get rid of em or bench em.
20% is on the position coaches, Troy Brown for WRs and Nick Caley for TEs. I'm certain they have tried to get the player to get it right and it's not the coaches screwing up on the field. A coach can tell a guy 100 times what to do but can't make them do it.
5% is spread around to BB, Matty P. and the the other players who could help out their dumb ass mates.

 

[chevss454]

I voted for Guard, simply because they are thin at the position and have nobody proven besides the starters, unless you consider Ferentz proven,
which is only true in terms of what he has proved in a negative sense.

Plus, you seem to state your opinions as facts a bit too often, imo.

Cole Strange will be a pro bowl player. More importantly, he will help us win a lot of games with his elite mobility, quickness and targeting in space. His talent is such that
an OC can design plays to take advantage of those skills because not many players in the league can do what he has already demonstrated. He's played almost
every snap at LG and has adapted fast to the NFL considering the leap he was required to make from Chattanooga. He's got one problem to address and that
is adding weight and muscle, which happens with a lot of really good linemen, such as Joe Thuney and, in particular, David Andrews.

Rarely does anyone come out of College and dominate at Guard, Quentin Nelson comes to mind, maybe Zack Martin, but Cole has had some outstanding games and also struggled at times, almost always against an oversized tank such as D.J. Reader on Saturday and Quinnen Williams a month back. He'll get bigger and stronger and be able to handle everything that comes his way before long.

I'm going to enjoy watching you be wrong on this one. You and Sean McVay.

Don't forget to remind us what you think about him regularly between now and next season, because it'll be more fun that way.

Well said. He's already our 3rd best O lineman after Onwenu and Andrews. I particularly liked seeing him put Maxx Crosby on his ass a couple of times in the Raiders game.

 

[chevss454]

Good to know

View: https://twitter.com/patscap/status/1607527183601352704

 

[sg14]

I lay blame 75% on the player. They should know the play book backwards and forwards by now. The route to run is elementary. Dumb players don't learn. (see Ochocinco).
Some players simply aren't smart enough to catch on. Get rid of em or bench em.

Bourne and Meyers were fine last year.
The TEs were fine in terms of knowing the plays last year.
So who do you bench?

 

[chevss454]

Bourne and Meyers were fine last year.
The TEs were fine in terms of knowing the plays last year.
So who do you bench?

Bourne and Jonnu Smith are running the routes wrong this year which is causing spatial problems for other WRs.
Both have seen significant time either on the Bench (Bourne) or in blocking situations (Smith)

 

[chevss454]

OT Peter Skoronski looks like a future NFL great.

 

[thomas144]

I have come to the conclusion that Kraft won't have the guts to get rid of Belichick and therefore the Patriots will be mired in mediocrity until Belichick dies or otherwise walks away from the job. It's interesting to observe Patriots fans in this situation. I guess I hope I am wrong and there is some miraculous turnaround that will restore Belichick's reputation, but I don't expect it will ever happen.

 

[sg14]

I voted for Guard, simply because they are thin at the position and have nobody proven besides the starters, unless you consider Ferentz proven,
which is only true in terms of what he has proved in a negative sense.

Plus, you seem to state your opinions as facts a bit too often, imo.

Cole Strange will be a pro bowl player. More importantly, he will help us win a lot of games with his elite mobility, quickness and targeting in space. His talent is such that
an OC can design plays to take advantage of those skills because not many players in the league can do what he has already demonstrated. He's played almost
every snap at LG and has adapted fast to the NFL considering the leap he was required to make from Chattanooga. He's got one problem to address and that
is adding weight and muscle, which happens with a lot of really good linemen, such as Joe Thuney and, in particular, David Andrews.

Rarely does anyone come out of College and dominate at Guard, Quentin Nelson comes to mind, maybe Zack Martin, but Cole has had some outstanding games and also struggled at times, almost always against an oversized tank such as D.J. Reader on Saturday and Quinnen Williams a month back. He'll get bigger and stronger and be able to handle everything that comes his way before long.

I'm going to enjoy watching you be wrong on this one. You and Sean McVay.

Don't forget to remind us what you think about him regularly between now and next season, because it'll be more fun that way.

Getting stronger will be good. Obviously his mobility is awesome but at line up he looks pretty small to me for a guard. That's a relative measurement.

Been hoping to see more of Chasen Hines, size wize looks similar to Big Mike. And heard the brain trust likes him.