Preseason Game 2 - Pats vs Eagles Aug. 19, Thurs. 7:30PM

Are you kidding with the cap nonsense. If money was such an issue, and he knew the team wasn't going to be good, then why the heck did he franchise tag Thuney when he could have let him walked and saved that cap space while collecting a 3rd round comp?

That excuse only makes his decision making last year worse as he should have tanked and had better draft capital had he known his team was that bad.

You really are very much blinded to how Hoodie operates. His fundamental principle is doing what's best for the team in all situations and tanking is not a part of his vocabulary as that is a loser mentality and in no way appropriate ot a winning culture.

You got issues with this draft?
 
You really are very much blinded to how Hoodie operates. His fundamental principle is doing what's best for the team in all situations and tanking is not a part of his vocabulary as that is a loser mentality and in no way ap[appropriate t a winning culture.

You got issues with this draft?
Every coach says they do what is best for the team. Bill does what is best for Bill like every coach who wants to actually keep their job.

I am not talking about a full tank job but at 6-8 and out of the playoffs, there was zero reason to try to win the remaining 2 games and even less of a reason to NOT play Stidham to see what you had in him. Bill did neither so instead of drafting in the top 10, we drafted at 15 and instead of actually seeing if Stidham could be a competent QB/bridge, we are stuck with another season of broken Cam.
 
Every coach says they do what is best for the team. Bill does what is best for Bill like every coach who wants to actually keep their job.

I am not talking about a full tank job but at 6-8 and out of the playoffs, there was zero reason to try to win the remaining 2 games and even less of a reason to NOT play Stidham to see what you had in him. Bill did neither so instead of drafting in the top 10, we drafted at 15 and instead of actually seeing if Stidham could be a competent QB/bridge, we are stuck with another season of broken Cam.

Once again. you just don't get it.
 
PFF I believe did a ranking of best value players for their contract. Guess who was number one? Bill sure nailed that one, letting the Goat go and bringing in Cam.
Pretty sure he wasn't going to sign that contract in NE though, right? Any reason to believe he would have played better in 2020 than in 2019, with worse weapons, less cohesion, presumably the same amount of overall discontent, and less support from the defense? You kind of need to compare that to the contract he would have had here and the season you'd project him to have here.
 
Pretty sure he wasn't going to sign that contract in NE though, right? Any reason to believe he would have played better in 2020 than in 2019, with worse weapons, less cohesion, presumably the same amount of overall discontent, and less support from the defense? You kind of need to compare that to the contract he would have had here and the season you'd project him to have here.
It has been reported that Brady wanted a contract extension back in 2017 after Jimmy was traded and again in 2018. He was not looking to break the bank, he wanted a multi-year commitment that took him to age 45, a goal he had been stating since his late 30s. And all he did at ages 37, 39 and 41 was win the freaking super bowls. Bill wanted to go year-to-year which in hindsight was ridiculous given Brady's production and durability. This is no reason to believe that Brady would have asked for the same deal he got in Tampa as he was a FA when Tampa made him that offer. He has always worked with Bill to ensure his contract was not an albatross to hamstring the team from being competitive. There is zero reason to believe that would have changed had Bill decided he would give him a deal to age 45.

Now in terms of the team in 2019 vs 2020. It is very doubtful that Bill takes a mulligan on the year if Brady comes back. In fact, it was reported that Bill was surprised Brady had left as he had planned on Brady returning on a one year deal. So Bill had already factored in Brady playing in 2020 so this idea that we could not afford Brady for 2020 is complete bunk. There is no reason to believe that Bill would not have upgraded the roster with Brady in 2020 and it is also doubtful we have as many Covid opt-outs if Brady is back as Tampa had zero. So you have to factor all that in before just hand waving off 2020 assuming Bill would have kept the roster the same if he had Brady. I think it is pretty clear he would not have.
 
It has been reported that Brady wanted a contract extension back in 2017 after Jimmy was traded and again in 2018. He was not looking to break the bank, he wanted a multi-year commitment that took him to age 45, a goal he had been stating since his late 30s. And all he did at ages 37, 39 and 41 was win the freaking super bowls. Bill wanted to go year-to-year which in hindsight was ridiculous given Brady's production and durability. This is no reason to believe that Brady would have asked for the same deal he got in Tampa as he was a FA when Tampa made him that offer. He has always worked with Bill to ensure his contract was not an albatross to hamstring the team from being competitive. There is zero reason to believe that would have changed had Bill decided he would give him a deal to age 45.

Now in terms of the team in 2019 vs 2020. It is very doubtful that Bill takes a mulligan on the year if Brady comes back. In fact, it was reported that Bill was surprised Brady had left as he had planned on Brady returning on a one year deal. So Bill had already factored in Brady playing in 2020 so this idea that we could not afford Brady for 2020 is complete bunk. There is no reason to believe that Bill would not have upgraded the roster with Brady in 2020 and it is also doubtful we have as many Covid opt-outs if Brady is back as Tampa had zero. So you have to factor all that in before just hand waving off 2020 assuming Bill would have kept the roster the same if he had Brady. I think it is pretty clear he would not have.

This is the second preseason thread where you're derailing to complain about the same exact thing you've been complaining for the past year or so. Give it a rest, please.
 
You really are very much blinded to how Hoodie operates. His fundamental principle is doing what's best for the team in all situations and tanking is not a part of his vocabulary as that is a loser mentality and in no way appropriate ot a winning culture.

You got issues with this draft?
BB never drafted a WR in the middle rounds. That's my only beef about it. He could got Eskridge or the speedy guy from Houston. Seachickens and Bills got them instead.

It was a good draft though.
 
It has been reported that Brady wanted a contract extension back in 2017 after Jimmy was traded and again in 2018. He was not looking to break the bank, he wanted a multi-year commitment that took him to age 45, a goal he had been stating since his late 30s. And all he did at ages 37, 39 and 41 was win the freaking super bowls. Bill wanted to go year-to-year which in hindsight was ridiculous given Brady's production and durability. This is no reason to believe that Brady would have asked for the same deal he got in Tampa as he was a FA when Tampa made him that offer. He has always worked with Bill to ensure his contract was not an albatross to hamstring the team from being competitive. There is zero reason to believe that would have changed had Bill decided he would give him a deal to age 45.

Now in terms of the team in 2019 vs 2020. It is very doubtful that Bill takes a mulligan on the year if Brady comes back. In fact, it was reported that Bill was surprised Brady had left as he had planned on Brady returning on a one year deal. So Bill had already factored in Brady playing in 2020 so this idea that we could not afford Brady for 2020 is complete bunk. There is no reason to believe that Bill would not have upgraded the roster with Brady in 2020 and it is also doubtful we have as many Covid opt-outs if Brady is back as Tampa had zero. So you have to factor all that in before just hand waving off 2020 assuming Bill would have kept the roster the same if he had Brady. I think it is pretty clear he would not have.
Face Palm No GIF
 
This is the second preseason thread where you're derailing to complain about the same exact thing you've been complaining for the past year or so. Give it a rest, please.
I was asked a hypothetical question and responded.

It's not like this thread was full of activity with no practice today.
 
It has been reported that Brady wanted a contract extension back in 2017 after Jimmy was traded and again in 2018. He was not looking to break the bank, he wanted a multi-year commitment that took him to age 45, a goal he had been stating since his late 30s. And all he did at ages 37, 39 and 41 was win the freaking super bowls. Bill wanted to go year-to-year which in hindsight was ridiculous given Brady's production and durability.
In hindsight it may have been wrong, but it definitely wasn't ridiculous to not give a 4 year deal to a 41 y/o QB. You're certainly happy to have a QB who is effective into his 40s, but you sure don't bet the team's salary cap on it.
This is no reason to believe that Brady would have asked for the same deal he got in Tampa as he was a FA when Tampa made him that offer. He has always worked with Bill to ensure his contract was not an albatross to hamstring the team from being competitive. There is zero reason to believe that would have changed had Bill decided he would give him a deal to age 45.
Agreed, but it was always a question of when Brady would get paid. He took a discount on some of his contracts, but not as steep as they're often made out. What he did was make a habit of continuing to extend the hit out into the future, as he did with the Bucs. The year after Brady leaves they get a cap hit of $24MM. So it came down to a decision on when to move on and take that hit. I don't think deciding to move on from a QB who would be 43 that year is a crazy thing to do, especially given the year he had in 2019. Now, there's a good argument to be made about what his best alternative was, but that's a different question.
Now in terms of the team in 2019 vs 2020. It is very doubtful that Bill takes a mulligan on the year if Brady comes back.
I don't think he took a mulligan. I think he did the best he could while pushed up against the cap. Same as he does every year.
In fact, it was reported that Bill was surprised Brady had left as he had planned on Brady returning on a one year deal. So Bill had already factored in Brady playing in 2020 so this idea that we could not afford Brady for 2020 is complete bunk.
There is no reason to believe that Bill would not have upgraded the roster with Brady in 2020
Sure there is - there was no available money to do so. 2019 Brady was on the cap for what, $23MM or something like that? Even if he signed a longer term deal and pushed the money out to later years you're still talking about a minimum of $10MM cap hit. Newton's contract had a base of a little over $1MM, a max value of $7.5MM, and no where near that much on the cap. Brady counted for what, $13MM on the 2020 cap? So you'd be gaining maybe $5MM. Something you can work with, yes, but you're not going to get some massive weapons upgrade for that.
and it is also doubtful we have as many Covid opt-outs if Brady is back as Tampa had zero.
That's most likely true.
So you have to factor all that in before just hand waving off 2020 assuming Bill would have kept the roster the same if he had Brady. I think it is pretty clear he would not have.
I'll grant you some of the Covid opt-outs, and maybe an upgrade at a position or two. Still, you don't have a significantly better roster than in 2019, when Brady performed pretty badly. Do I think you're looking at 10-11 wins instead of 7? Sure. Division win? Maybe. AFCC? Very unlikely. But you're just left with the same cap problem for 2021 that we had in 2020 - allocating all that cap room to a Tom Brady who is no longer on the team. It was only a matter of when it happened. Again, parting ways with a 43 year old QB - even the greatest of all time - is not a crazy thing to do. In hindsight, was it a year too early? Probably. Two years too early? Maybe. Does Brady have the kind of year he had last year if he's not on yet another "revenge tour?" Who knows - we do know that he consistently plays better with a big chip on his shoulder, though. But would people still say it was a wrong move if Mac is a great QB for a decade, and next year's QB crop weak? And if Barmore is the Lawrence Taylor of DTs? There's no way to tell how this settles out in the longer term - there are a lot of dominos still to fall.

Anyway, I missed this conversation when it originally happened, and I'll be done with it now to spare the rest of the board any more pain. Sorry, y'all.
 
In hindsight it may have been wrong, but it definitely wasn't ridiculous to not give a 4 year deal to a 41 y/o QB. You're certainly happy to have a QB who is effective into his 40s, but you sure don't bet the team's salary cap on it.

Agreed, but it was always a question of when Brady would get paid. He took a discount on some of his contracts, but not as steep as they're often made out. What he did was make a habit of continuing to extend the hit out into the future, as he did with the Bucs. The year after Brady leaves they get a cap hit of $24MM. So it came down to a decision on when to move on and take that hit. I don't think deciding to move on from a QB who would be 43 that year is a crazy thing to do, especially given the year he had in 2019. Now, there's a good argument to be made about what his best alternative was, but that's a different question.

I don't think he took a mulligan. I think he did the best he could while pushed up against the cap. Same as he does every year.


Sure there is - there was no available money to do so. 2019 Brady was on the cap for what, $23MM or something like that? Even if he signed a longer term deal and pushed the money out to later years you're still talking about a minimum of $10MM cap hit. Newton's contract had a base of a little over $1MM, a max value of $7.5MM, and no where near that much on the cap. Brady counted for what, $13MM on the 2020 cap? So you'd be gaining maybe $5MM. Something you can work with, yes, but you're not going to get some massive weapons upgrade for that.

That's most likely true.

I'll grant you some of the Covid opt-outs, and maybe an upgrade at a position or two. Still, you don't have a significantly better roster than in 2019, when Brady performed pretty badly. Do I think you're looking at 10-11 wins instead of 7? Sure. Division win? Maybe. AFCC? Very unlikely. But you're just left with the same cap problem for 2021 that we had in 2020 - allocating all that cap room to a Tom Brady who is no longer on the team. It was only a matter of when it happened. Again, parting ways with a 43 year old QB - even the greatest of all time - is not a crazy thing to do. In hindsight, was it a year too early? Probably. Two years too early? Maybe. Does Brady have the kind of year he had last year if he's not on yet another "revenge tour?" Who knows - we do know that he consistently plays better with a big chip on his shoulder, though. But would people still say it was a wrong move if Mac is a great QB for a decade, and next year's QB crop weak? And if Barmore is the Lawrence Taylor of DTs? There's no way to tell how this settles out in the longer term - there are a lot of dominos still to fall.

Anyway, I missed this conversation when it originally happened, and I'll be done with it now to spare the rest of the board any more pain. Sorry, y'all.
This a really solid post. Even though I disagree with some of it, it was well balanced and reasoned. I appreciate you taking the time to put that down.

I will just say this really quickly, Brady even at age 42 or now 44 is not like every other QB. Bill saw him every day for 20 years and knew and he was not dealing with the typical QB so moving on from him due to age is silly given his performance and durability. Bill values those things greatly regardless of age.

Second, Brady staying was not about contending for another Super Bowl. The guy had already won 6. It was about continuing to be a competitive/playoff team while also allowing the GOAT to finish his career a Patriot. I can't emphasize the second half enough. We did not have a viable QB to replace him so allowing him to finish was the smartest thing to do both football wise and from a legacy stand point.

And now look at what has happened. He won a ring in year one, throwing for 50 total TDs and Super Bowl MVP. It makes Kraft/Bill look like utter and complete clowns and has cast the 20 year dynasty in a completely different light. None of that should have happened. Brady should have never been allowed to ever put on a helmet for another team. I know most here think I am happy he won in Tampa and I am for him but I am devastated for the Patriots. He was OUR QB and any rings that he ever won should have been with us but Bill royally screwed up the roster effectively ruining the end of Brady's career.

I mean think what you and others are actually saying. We could not keep the GOAT at a measly $25 mil a year when Mahomes is making $45 mil because our cap was in such crap shape. Rodgers was asking to be the highest paid QB and has been the highest paid QB every time he has signed an extension and the guy has one ring. Yet Bill could not give the GOAT 2 years at $25 mil? I mean seriously. Do you know how BAD you have to mismanage a roster for that to happen?
 
Are you kidding with the cap nonsense. If money was such an issue, and he knew the team wasn't going to be good, then why the heck did he franchise tag Thuney when he could have let him walked and saved that cap space while collecting a 3rd round comp?

That excuse only makes his decision making last year worse as he should have tanked and had better draft capital had he known his team was that bad.
Silly and purposefully uniformed, you are. I never mentioned the cap.

VALUE. What QB would YOU (the better GM than BB) have spent $ on LAST YEAR? Don't try to move the goal posts as you did above. It is obvious and does your argument more harm and no good.

The very basis for all of your posts is a deep seated hatred of BB and it influences everything you think you see. It is clear it won't change unless BB takes the Pats to the SB this year... and maybe even not then.

As has been the case with many others so far, I am out on this topic with you.
 
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Silly and purposefully uniformed, you are. I never mentioned the cap.

VALUE. What QB would YOU (the better GM than BB) have spent $ on LAST YEAR? Don't try to move the goal posts as you did above. It is obvious and does your argument more harm and no good.

The very basis for all of your posts is a deep seated hatred of BB and it influences everything you think you see. It is clear it won't change unless BB takes the Pats to the SB this year... and maybe even not then.

As has been the case with many others so far, I am out on this topic with you.
Aloyouis, you know as well as I do the time to address the QB position was not this past off-season but the years prior after we traded Jimmy and Bill decided NOT to extend Brady. We could have had Lamar Jackson or Jordan Love with our natural #1 picks. We could have traded up into the top 15/10 in 2018/2019 to get any of the top QBs taken if we were so inclined but Bill would rather poor acid in his eyes than spend draft capital to acquire the most important position in the game so we got Danny Etling in round 7 and then Stidham in round 4. In other words, Bill did zippo at the most important position in the draft with his starter at ages 40, 41, 42 with no intention of extending him. You say this is a hatred and I laugh because the mismanagement is so over the top BAD and get Bill gets pass after pass and here we are with broken Cam for year #2.

In terms of QBs for this season? Honestly anyone but Cam. They could have had Fitz, traded for Mariotta or tried to pry Heinicke from Washington. ALL would have been better served in our offense than Cam and would have been better mentors for Jones. Remember they did want Stafford but he said he did not want to play for us and they could have also had Jimmy but again Bill did not want to pay for the most important position. So here we are.
 
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