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Patriots71 said:
But as you have seen, it takes more than collecting players to win titles. Remember the Rams? The obvious approach is to build a core over time, but Brady does not have time anymore, so yeah I imagine they are
trying to get all they can in a window of opportunity.
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Denver/Peyton may be more of an example.
 
foobahl said:
Denver/Peyton may be more of an example.
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I think that case was more of a good team that just needed a QB. But yeah, a team with a QB at the end, is going to go out a bit more than a slow build. Bill has no hurry to win right now. He will do all he can to win, but he also
knows that its better to build a team than go all out one year and cut everyone 3 years later. Now the bucs are not exactly spending a ton of money, but yeah they are all in, but then so is the Ravens and Seattle and wilson was
trying to get Brown badly. Some teams feel they need that small piece to put them over the top.
 
Patriots71 said:
So getting off this, who I like who others dont like crap...I found this story on ESPN, and I had to chuckle to myself because wow. If this story came out about the Patriots...

I know you all hate espn links, so I put the words.

History shows Titans adept at exploiting rulebook to their advantage​


NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Coach Mike Vrabel likes to refer to the Tennessee Titans as "street rats" because they find a way to get the job done, even when things get tough. Given how Vrabel has utilized the rules to gain advantages late in games, it might be time to refer to him as the "sly fox."
Last Sunday's 42-36 win over the Houston Texans provided the latest example of how Vrabel used his understanding of the NFL rulebook to give the Titans an edge. The situation: On second and 1, the Texans had the ball on Tennessee's 25-yard line with a 30-29 lead and 3:05 left in the game.
The Titans had all of their timeouts left. But Vrabel seemingly found a way to stop the clock, in effect manufacturing an extra timeout.
Before the play, Vrabel sent defensive back Josh Kalu onto the field, even though there were already 11 defenders out there.
Veteran cornerback Johnathan Joseph reacted to Kalu running onto the field, but Vrabel gestured to Joseph to get him to relax. And for style points, Vrabel utilized a little bit of acting to make it seem like he was upset about the ensuing penalty.
Mike Vrabel's Titans took a penalty for too many men on the field, saving them precious time at the end of last Sunday's game against the Texans. Christopher Hanewinckel/USA TODAY Sports
The official called the Titans for having too many men on the field, which cost them 5 yards, giving Houston a new set of downs. But it bought Tennessee about 40 seconds because it stopped the clock.
"I remember [Saints] Coach [Sean] Payton used to always preach about being great in critical situations. The good teams do that," Titans safety Kenny Vaccaro said. "As you saw with Vrabel, the quick thinking, the coaching staff coming together and having a plan there to save us some time on the clock was huge. It's uplifting for us as a player. The coaches, that's what they focus on -- how can they put us in the best position possible to win the game?"
It's not the first time a Vrabel-coached Titans team has taken a penalty late in a game that worked to its own advantage. The coach won't say that he purposely took the penalty to stop the clock. But a quick peek at Rule 5, Section 1, Article 1 of the NFL rulebook offers some insight:

Notice where it said the "officials shall blow their whistles immediately" when the snap is imminent and not allow the snap to occur. The stop in play saved valuable time for the Titans. The Texans scored on the drive to take a 36-29 lead (their 2-point conversion attempt failed). But the Titans started their game-tying drive with 1:45 left with two timeouts -- likely a better situation than if they had not taken the penalty to stop the clock.

According to Vrabel, although every Titans coach is charged with knowing the rulebook, coordinator of football development John Streicher and special teams coach Craig Aukerman and assistant special teams coach Ryan Crow, are the leaders in that category.​

Dave McGinnis, the Titans radio color analyst and a former NFL coach, said teams that he was a part of would discuss all of the various situations that could arise and how to react.
"After my second year in the league, I was told I needed to learn the rulebook inside and out. When I was a head coach, the rulebook was something you needed to know for the rules and how it can apply in any situation," McGinnis said. "That moment [on Sunday] was a tremendous application of situational football. That's just knowing your craft. The margin for victory in the National Football League is so thin. You have to understand every chance you have to win. Sometimes that is in the moment. That was in the moment."
In seems like Vrabel has used too many men on the field before to gain extra time. He took the same penalty two years ago in Week 13 against the New York Jets. The Jets were up 22-19 over Tennessee with 2:28 left in that game. The penalty for too many men on the field gave the Jets a first down on a second-and-2 play, but it also stopped the clock.
The Titans used two of their three remaining timeouts along with the two-minute warning before forcing the Jets to punt with 1:54 left. Tennessee went on to score the go-ahead touchdown, making the score 26-22 with 36 seconds left.

Vrabel gave his former coach Bill Belichick -- who has strategically run time off the clock before -- a taste of his own medicine in the playoffs last year when Tennessee the New England Patriots. The Titans were clinging to a 14-13 lead when the punt team ran onto the field with 6:39 left in the game. Vrabel wisely took an intentional delay of game penalty as 1:10 bled off the clock.
Tennessee then took a false start penalty to take even more time off. An anxious Patriots player crossed into the neutral zone as the Titans were letting the clock wind down. After eclipsing almost two minutes off the clock, Titans punter Brett Kern pinned New England at their own 11-yard line with 4:44 left. Tennessee beat the Patriots 20-13.
"That's something that's probably a premium in the National Football League," Vrabel said of finding an edge. "I think where the talent and the games are so close, and historically close, trying to find an edge anywhere you can. Just try to do everything you can do to help the players and to find an advantage, whether it be a play or situation that you can take advantage of."
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Vrabel is awesome
 
Just a Fine when they intentionally ignored NFL covid protocols. Just more examples unless it's the pats . It's just a slap on wrist . Not a big deal
 
Patriots71 said:
But as you have seen, it takes more than collecting players to win titles. Remember the Rams? The obvious approach is to build a core over time, but Brady does not have time anymore, so yeah I imagine they are
trying to get all they can in a window of opportunity.
Click to expand...
There are absolutely no excuses for TB12 not to win SB now and you know it.
 
chevss454 said:
Exactly.
Bruce Arians in March 2020 on Antonio Brown coming to Tampa: “Yeah, it's not gonna happen. There's no room. And probably not enough money. But it's just not gonna happen -- it's not a fit here. I just know him, and -- it's not a fit in our locker room. He’s too much of a diva."

Brady's window needed to maximized for a SB win to become a reality and Arians wants a SB win.
But injuries happened. With Evans injured and barely practicing, OJ Howard on IR, Godwin hampered by concussion and a hamstring & speedster Scotty Miller with hip and groin injury, the best WR room in the NFL wasn't that anymore.

So weapons were added.
Fournette & McCoy.
Now add Antonio Brown for the stretch run when Evans & Godwin should be healthy. Tyler Johnson has started to breakout and Scotty Miller has returned to form. With 3 1,000 yd receivers, they form the new super best WR room in the league.

Who will handle Brown? We know that's TB12's job now. Then Steelers OC Arians and some of his assistants already had bad go rounds with Brown in Pittsburgh. They already know they can't hold Brown in check. It's up to TB12 now. Brown has given Brady lots of promises to be a good citizen. Arians, too. And Arians has told TB12 that Brown is on a short leash. Time will tell.

TB12 finally got his way - he's running the team and he's loving life. His middle finger is directed straight at Foxboro.

Meanwhile RKK is feeling more than a little guilty that he booted Brown out & therefore he himself had a hand in hastening TB12's exit out of Gillette. Ironic, huh.
For me personally, I'm feeling that for the first time I think I want to see TB12 (& the Bucs) to fail miserably.
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Even Stevie Wonder can see it
 
chevss454 said:
Exactly.
Bruce Arians in March 2020 on Antonio Brown coming to Tampa: “Yeah, it's not gonna happen. There's no room. And probably not enough money. But it's just not gonna happen -- it's not a fit here. I just know him, and -- it's not a fit in our locker room. He’s too much of a diva."

Brady's window needed to maximized for a SB win to become a reality and Arians wants a SB win.
But injuries happened. With Evans injured and barely practicing, OJ Howard on IR, Godwin hampered by concussion and a hamstring & speedster Scotty Miller with hip and groin injury, the best WR room in the NFL wasn't that anymore.

So weapons were added.
Fournette & McCoy.
Now add Antonio Brown for the stretch run when Evans & Godwin should be healthy. Tyler Johnson has started to breakout and Scotty Miller has returned to form. With 3 1,000 yd receivers, they form the new super best WR room in the league.

Who will handle Brown? We know that's TB12's job now. Then Steelers OC Arians and some of his assistants already had bad go rounds with Brown in Pittsburgh. They already know they can't hold Brown in check. It's up to TB12 now. Brown has given Brady lots of promises to be a good citizen. Arians, too. And Arians has told TB12 that Brown is on a short leash. Time will tell.

TB12 finally got his way - he's running the team and he's loving life. His middle finger is directed straight at Foxboro.

Meanwhile RKK is feeling more than a little guilty that he booted Brown out & therefore he himself had a hand in hastening TB12's exit out of Gillette. Ironic, huh.
For me personally, I'm feeling that for the first time I think I want to see TB12 (& the Bucs) to fail miserably.
Click to expand...
Good summary Chevvs. I don't think Brady is giving a middle finger to Foxboro at all despite the media relentlessly pitting Brady vs Bill this entire season which is nauseating. Brady just wants to keep winning. No player has ever been driven more to win chips than him. It is obvious he made a really smart decision picking Tampa as the org is all in on him and getting a Lombardi. I was reading the following on another Pats forum regarding Tampa's present and future that I think is relevant on this discussion:
  • Brown signed for just over league minimum for an eight game contract. If he doesn’t work out, they’ve taken almost zero risk.
  • Besides a fourth for Gronk, the Bucs haven‘t used any draft capital to build this squad. Besides a few late round picks, they have all of their future draft picks in tact.
  • Their notable free agents in 2021 are Lavonte David, N. Suh, Shaq Barrett, Gronk, and Chris Godwin. Godwin is the only player whose market value is significantly more than he’s making now while the others could likely be re-signed or extended for similar value or less (Gronk.)
  • Tom Brady is signed for two years and is very likely to reach an extension as long as his level of play remains high. Wouldn’t be a surprise to see him get an extra year after this season.
 
Mazz22 said:
Good summary Chevvs. I don't think Brady is giving a middle finger to Foxboro at all despite the media relentlessly pitting Brady vs Bill this entire season which is nauseating. Brady just wants to keep winning. No player has ever been driven more to win chips than him. It is obvious he made a really smart decision picking Tampa as the org is all in on him and getting a Lombardi. I was reading the following on another Pats forum regarding Tampa's present and future that I think is relevant on this discussion:
  • Brown signed for just over league minimum for an eight game contract. If he doesn’t work out, they’ve taken almost zero risk.
  • Besides a fourth for Gronk, the Bucs haven‘t used any draft capital to build this squad. Besides a few late round picks, they have all of their future draft picks in tact.
  • Their notable free agents in 2021 are Lavonte David, N. Suh, Shaq Barrett, Gronk, and Chris Godwin. Godwin is the only player whose market value is significantly more than he’s making now while the others could likely be re-signed or extended for similar value or less (Gronk.)
  • Tom Brady is signed for two years and is very likely to reach an extension as long as his level of play remains high. Wouldn’t be a surprise to see him get an extra year after this season.
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Havent you learned by now that anything Brady does on Tampa to better themselves is somehow a slap back at the pats? The Patriots are not thinking about Brady anymore, Brady is not thinking about the Pats anymore. Both are professional enough to have moved on. Fans cannot accept that though. If non of that stuff happened last year and the Pats picked up Brown for a steal for 8 games it would be looked at as an amazing smart belichick move. But because Tampa did, its that piece of shit brady sticking a middle finger up at the pats. Its just so silly. Its like you said, they want Bill and Brady to hate each other so bad, they want players to bad mouth Brady and they want Brady to trash his former team, and none of that
happened and they have no story, so things get invented instead. Both teams are trying to win football games, just like any other team in the league except for the Jets, just like every year.
 
king of kings said:
This is the most loaded offense . Brady has ever had to get his 7th ring. Evans, Goodwin & AB . Ariana said he wanted nothing to do with him for months
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Patriots71 said:
But as you have seen, it takes more than collecting players to win titles. Remember the Rams? The obvious approach is to build a core over time, but Brady does not have time anymore, so yeah I imagine they are
trying to get all they can in a window of opportunity.
Click to expand...

chevss454 said:
There are absolutely no excuses for TB12 not to win SB now and you know it.
Click to expand...
Patriots71 said:
Is that your prediction then? So no more pats winning the superbowl, its Tampa now?
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No. That was in response to you giving TB12 an out as fallback IN CASE he doesn't win the SB.
KOK is right that this collection of weapons for TB12 is the best he's ever had. 3 1000 yard receivers on one team has never happened before; it's a league first. All in.
TB12 has no excuses now. This is his show. Anything less than a SB win will be looked at as a failure by many, including me.
 
Patriots71 said:
But as you have seen, it takes more than collecting players to win titles. Remember the Rams? The obvious approach is to build a core over time, but Brady does not have time anymore, so yeah I imagine they are
trying to get all they can in a window of opportunity.
Click to expand...
The Bucs are not the Rams or the Broncos from 2015. That is what I referenced in my previous post. They already had a collection of talent before Brady arrived and their cap situation is very good. It did not cost them much to add Fournette, McCoy, Gronk and Brown. Just a 4 for Gronk and all are on good deals. They have a young secondary that keeps getting better every game. They have the 2 most dominant LBs as well. This was not a year about mortgaging everything. Quite the opposite. They got the GOAT QB on a great deal at $25 mil and then added the other pieces. They nailed the draft with both Wirfs and Winfield. They are going to be in great shape next year and I would not be surprised to see Brady get another year or two so they can soften the cap hit for him next year. Their GM has done a masterful job the last few seasons and getting Arians last year and Brady this year has put them in championship position with flexibility to contend for some time.
 
Mazz22 said:
The Bucs are not the Rams or the Broncos from 2015. That is what I referenced in my previous post. They already had a collection of talent before Brady arrived and their cap situation is very good. It did not cost them much to add Fournette, McCoy, Gronk and Brown. Just a 4 for Gronk and all are on good deals. They have a young secondary that keeps getting better every game. They have the 2 most dominant LBs as well. This was not a year about mortgaging everything. Quite the opposite. They got the GOAT QB on a great deal at $25 mil and then added the other pieces. They nailed the draft with both Wirfs and Winfield. They are going to be in great shape next year and I would not be surprised to see Brady get another year or two so they can soften the cap hit for him next year. Their GM has done a masterful job the last few seasons and getting Arians last year and Brady this year has put them in championship position with flexibility to contend for some time.
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The issue is, he is not at the GOAT standard anymore. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact to do with Physics and Chemistry. Whether TB can guide them to a SB his year is the question.
 
chevss454 said:
No. That was in response to you giving TB12 an out as fallback IN CASE he doesn't win the SB.
KOK is right that this collection of weapons for TB12 is the best he's ever had. 3 1000 yard receivers on one team has never happened before; it's a league first. All in.
TB12 has no excuses now. This is his show. Anything less than a SB win will be looked at as a failure by many, including me.
Click to expand...
I never said Tampa or Brady was winning a superbowl or anything close. lol Why are you so angry. Only one that is making an out is you. Now its if they win a superbowl, you will say, well of course look how stacked they were, if they dont, you will say, man what a failure a 43 year old QB didnt win the superbowl with a stacked team. This is so silly how you are reacting to this. WHo cares? Seattle was running around campaigning for Brown while Wilson was opening begging him to come to Seattle and you didnt say a word. You guys act like you don't care what Brady does or doesnt do, yet you do, like Big time. If Patriots do not win the superbowl this year, I could care less who does. Well ok I dont want KC to win it, but other then that, why do I care? Its like some of you are rooting for Brady's failure more than you are rooting for the Patriots.
 
Roberto71 said:
The issue is, he is not at the GOAT standard anymore. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact to do with Physics and Chemistry. Whether TB can guide them to a SB his year is the question.
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Thats not the issue. lol. The issue is, you guys care more about Brady not winning the superbowl than the Pats actually winning the superbowl. Some of you have lost your minds over this.
 
I don't think I've read anyone wanting Brady to lose more than wanting the Patriots to win? :confused1:
 
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