Randon Post-Draft Musings

[mikiemo83]

Thoughts of reports the Pats wanted to move Amendola are still fresh after a couple of months. I think BB is pretty happy with the WR corps right now.

Gallon slipped bc of his size but otherwise he's a great WR who runs all the routes and plays all the positions. He was my 4th ranked WR this year for the Pats. Great value imo.
http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=68338 …

and watch this.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XkoJ_JxKj9w?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

caught by a white safety, short on a route for a first... dear god why did we pick him up!!!



I hope he makes it, I like late round WR's who can just play football

 

[Dwight Schrute]

caught by a white safety, short on a route for a first... dear god why did we pick him up!!!



I hope he makes it, I like late round WR's who can just play football

Why do you hate white people?

#SnoopMikie

 

[patsfanroach]

I am not sure what grade this year's draft class deserves(shouldn't that be given in like three to five years anyways?). I am not sure what grade Brady deserves over the last couple of seasons (as a teacher I would say his effort is the same, his attitude is the same, his knowledge is enhanced but his skills are starting to decline ever so slowly). However I know that this thread deserves an A+!! Thanks for some great reading folks! If this keeps up I may have to do less occasional lurking and more actual reading and posting again.

 

[Hawg73]

I am not sure what grade this year's draft class deserves(shouldn't that be given in like three to five years anyways?). I am not sure what grade Brady deserves over the last couple of seasons (as a teacher I would say his effort is the same, his attitude is the same, his knowledge is enhanced but his skills are starting to decline ever so slowly). However I know that this thread deserves an A+!! Thanks for some great reading folks! If this keeps up I may have to do less occasional lurking and more actual reading and posting again.

Right back at you, Roach. I hope you do.

It is good reading. People that want to point out that Brady might not be a superhuman omniscient being will still have a tussle on their hands, but the discussion can now be had with a bit more rationality. More people are coming forward and saying what they think without worrying about the consequences and they should be able to do exactly that. Have rational discussions.

I personally hope he has his best year ever, but until I see evidence that certain things are better, I'm not planning on lying about what I see in order to avoid getting in unpleasant debates with the delusional.

To save typing in the future I'm going to start referring to him as Tom B+.

 

[mooseontheloose]

To save typing in the future I'm going to start referring to him as Tom B+.

TFB+ has a better ring to it

 

[patsfanroach]

I am def in the "Brady is 37" side of the argument. His deep ball is not as deep or as accurate as it was in the period when he was throwing to Randy Moss... His timing throws are not as precise as they were when he threw to Wes Welker or Troy Brown... His dink and dunk game is not as smooth as it was when he was throwing to Brown, Branch and Faulk... His "power game" is not the same since losing A-Hearn and having an oft-injured Gronk... It is clear to me that the weapons around Brady were not the same as they were when he was in his prime. Brady is on the back side of a stellar career but it is def on the back side. All that said he is BY FAR the best QB we have been lucky enough to have had here in New England. He is playing in what will probably go down as the Golden Age of NFL QBs and he is one of the top two of the era. Also he does not have the same weapons that he had in each of those eras. Hopefully the young WRs can begin to mold into the next stage of Brady's illustrious career. Hopefully we can see a couple more SB runs that Brady does not have to carry on his back...a la the Bronco teams at the end of Elway's career. Either way it has been a GREAT run for us fans, especially those who can name any of the QBs that started for the Pats in the five years prior to Bledsoe being drafted...we earned this.

 

[Mr.Pink]

After watching that jeremy gallon video I now understand why chevs is so high on him. He really does look like Steve smith

 

[Oswlek]

Last year brady completely carried the team on his back with help from a decent defense and a run game that came on late.

Once we made it to the AFCC our best defensive player got injured which opened a flood gate for the broncos to exploit and our offense was putrid including brady. But how well can any QB play when he's being harassed the entire game and also had a couple free rushers a few times sack him.

And his weapons we're 3 slot WR's 1 was injured and a 3rd string blocking TE?

He missed some throws and didn't play well but my point is how could he?

I loathe "carried on his back" statements about QBs, as it is usually far from true. He certainly didn't have much help initially with all the injuries and inexperience. That said, the time when this was worst, the defense was boss, a top 5 scoring D, so how much did the QB need to do? I'll give Tom credit for keeping the ball out of defender's hands, but how much did he really carry the team when they were only scoring ~20 points a game?

Once Gronk came back, Vereen return, the run game started taking off and the youngsters picked it up, the offense was one of the best in the league. Again, not all Tom.

The receivers started dropping like flies at the end, but by then Edelman had emerged and the run game was pretty fierce. Again, not ideal, but still some parts around him.

Any time the QB is the best player on the offense they are going to "carry" the offense somewhat. I've seen Manning do at least as much and I've seen Rodgers do even more with less. Aaron seldom wants for receivers (though they've have injury problems at times themselves) but his OL and running game was awful in 2011 and 2012. Just terrible.

All that said, I agree with you that it wasn't until the OL shat the bed that Brady was finally done in (though he still had chances to stay in the AFCCG that 2003 Tommy doesn't miss), which is precisely why I had OL as my #1 and #2 priority heading into this offseason.

On an unrelated note, can I say that I've watched a few Garropolo interviews and he's completely won me over? He seems like the perfect backup-slash-heir for Brady. Game modeled after The Franchise, completely confidence he could start this year but also completely comfortable to sit, learn and bide his time, and just comes off as someone you'd love to have in your locker room. I can see why NE wanted him so badly.

 

[Mr.Pink]

I loathe "carried on his back" statements about QBs, as it is usually far from true. He certainly didn't have much help initially with all the injuries and inexperience. That said, the time when this was worst, the defense was boss, a top 5 scoring D, so how much did the QB need to do? I'll give Tom credit for keeping the ball out of defender's hands, but how much did he really carry the team when they were only scoring ~20 points a game?

Once Gronk came back, Vereen return, the run game started taking off and the youngsters picked it up, the offense was one of the best in the league. Again, not all Tom.

The receivers started dropping like flies at the end, but by then Edelman had emerged and the run game was pretty fierce. Again, not ideal, but still some parts around him.

Any time the QB is the best player on the offense they are going to "carry" the offense somewhat. I've seen Manning do at least as much and I've seen Rodgers do even more with less. Aaron seldom wants for receivers (though they've have injury problems at times themselves) but his OL and running game was awful in 2011 and 2012. Just terrible.

All that said, I agree with you that it wasn't until the OL shat the bed that Brady was finally done in (though he still had chances to stay in the AFCCG that 2003 Tommy doesn't miss), which is precisely why I had OL as my #1 and #2 priority heading into this offseason.

On an unrelated note, can I say that I've watched a few Garropolo interviews and he's completely won me over? He seems like the perfect backup-slash-heir for Brady. Game modeled after The Franchise, completely confidence he could start this year but also completely comfortable to sit, learn and bide his time, and just comes off as someone you'd love to have in your locker room. I can see why NE wanted him so badly.

Eh the whole 2013 season was a roller coaster ride. Shame it ended the way it did that day no one showed up. Both sides of the ball deserve the same amount of blame or criticism. Including brady.




I also really like Garoppolo! His quick release and footwork have been discussed plenty but his fade pass is just so nice. He really could be the heir to brady

 

[Hawg73]

TFB+ has a better ring to it

I stand corrected.

TFB+ it is.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I stand corrected.

TFB+ it is.

Bonus is some naysayers might mistake it to mean an upgraded version of TFB

 

[mikiemo83]

if his play slips he will return to TFB, slips too much and it will be TFB-

 

[grog]

and if someone was still here, it would be TFB++++++++++++++++++

But he's not and we can have intelligent conversations once again.

 

[HarpoonIPA]

I think Brady has another 2 good to great seasons left in him. And if he truly wants to play into his 40's, trade him while he still has gas, and build from what we would get in return for him.

 

[HarpoonIPA]

and if someone was still here, it would be TFB++++++++++++++++++

But he's not and we can have intelligent conversations once again.

Wasn't he back a few months ago for about 25 minutes?

 

[Oswlek]

A couple other thoughts....

Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins and Josh Boyce are unproven and also were injured. Brandon LaFell is a question mark. Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers all got new high draft picks at receiver.

This is copied from Reiss' recent mailbag and, IMO, points out the hypocrisy of fan complaints. While his game has flaws, Aaron Dobson had the highest totals for yards and TDs as a rookie receiver in the Brady era. Thompkins numbers would have done so as well had he not trailed AD..... yet both are viewed as unproven and questionable heading into 2012. Somehow, though, a second or third round receiver would fix all that? So you are saying that it is more reasonable that a 3rd round rookie comes in and makes a big impact than it is that one of three youngsters - two of which were selected around or before the same spot in last year's draft - will emerge in their second year? And this makes sense to you somehow?

I've also seen a number of people question the Garropolo pick using Bill's sketchy history with QBs as evidence. To this I have no response except some combination of :BS::facepalm:cuckoo

Despite rarely investing more than 6th, 7th and UDFAs, NE harvested an all-time great and two other fringe starters. QBs are hit or miss in the top 10, let alone in the bottom 50, so that is superb ROI. I suppose you could hold O'Connoll up as a precedent setting misfire, and it is impossible to say anything about Mallet at this point. But when you consider that the Patriots have developed 3 of the top 45 QBs in the league right now despite never investing higher than a 3rd round pick (until this year, of course and not counting Mallett) that demonstrates remarkable scouting acumen. How anyone can view that as evidence to the contrary is beyond me, but what do I know? :shrug:

 

[Dwight Schrute]

A couple other thoughts....



This is copied from Reiss' recent mailbag and, IMO, points out the hypocrisy of fan complaints. While his game has flaws, Aaron Dobson had the highest totals for yards and TDs as a rookie receiver in the Brady era. Thompkins numbers would have done so as well had he not trailed AD..... yet both are viewed as unproven and questionable heading into 2012. Somehow, though, a second or third round receiver would fix all that? So you are saying that it is more reasonable that a 3rd round rookie comes in and makes a big impact than it is that one of three youngsters - two of which were selected around or before the same spot in last year's draft - will emerge in their second year? And this makes sense to you somehow?

I've also seen a number of people question the Garropolo pick using Bill's sketchy history with QBs as evidence. To this I have no response except some combination of :BS::facepalm:cuckoo

Despite rarely investing more than 6th, 7th and UDFAs, NE harvested an all-time great and two other fringe starters. QBs are hit or miss in the top 10, let alone in the bottom 50, so that is superb ROI. I suppose you could hold O'Connoll up as a precedent setting misfire, and it is impossible to say anything about Mallet at this point. But when you consider that the Patriots have developed 3 of the top 45 QBs in the league right now despite never investing higher than a 3rd round pick (until this year, of course and not counting Mallett) that demonstrates remarkable scouting acumen. How anyone can view that as evidence to the contrary is beyond me, but what do I know? :shrug:

Boyce flashed next to nothing.

KT had periods of greatness coupled with unexplained disappearances. After NO, something to really launch off of, he was in witness protection.

Amendola was out in the 2nd half of Week 1.

Vereen broke his wrist in Week 1.

Edelman was the only viable healthy steady contributor.

Sure Dobson had good numbers at the end. But there were true rough patches in there, and had there been other options I'm 100% positive it would have been same with all rooks or FAs that struggle with TFB - maybe next year kid.

But somebody had to catch balls, and he was the fortunate one who continued to be force fed due to no other viable alternative.

Now he delays surgery. Misses this entire strength window. He'll miss all the timing and development camps. He might not even be a go at the start of TC.
For a guy who needed all of this and then some, and a huge injection of fight-for-the-ball, I'm not 100% on board with him making much, if any, of a year two leap.

 

[Hawg73]

Boyce flashed next to nothing.

A solid post and I'll comment on the above, because I've been reading that sort of thing a lot lately.

I would not say "next to nothing", although clearly folks might've expected he'd have a bigger impact given the opportunity at the time. I get that folks were upset.

I'd say that Boyce showed me enough in a limited sample that I think he's got a lot of ability to work with. Maybe more than either Dobson or KT. I can recall some drops, some really nice plays and also some missed opportunities when he blew the doors off a DB and TFB+ never noticed or just missed a big connection. A rookie year of struggles, but there were flashes. The guy was getting open, imo. Stiffs can't do that.

The stats were paltry, but peel back the onion a bit and I think you can see genuine ability in him. When he catches one and turns upfield he looks like a natural and has real good wheels.

Maybe he was the runt of the litter mentally, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get his shot this preseason and really do something with the chance.

 

[TommyD420]

Historic, prolific team on the other side of the ball.

All of Brady's weapons on the other side of the ball watched from the MASH tent.

This is my point. The Patriots have done the same thing this offseason.

The defense is going to be sick this season.

 

[O_P_T]

A couple other thoughts....



This is copied from Reiss' recent mailbag and, IMO, points out the hypocrisy of fan complaints. While his game has flaws, Aaron Dobson had the highest totals for yards and TDs as a rookie receiver in the Brady era. Thompkins numbers would have done so as well had he not trailed AD..... yet both are viewed as unproven and questionable heading into 2012. Somehow, though, a second or third round receiver would fix all that? So you are saying that it is more reasonable that a 3rd round rookie comes in and makes a big impact than it is that one of three youngsters - two of which were selected around or before the same spot in last year's draft - will emerge in their second year? And this makes sense to you somehow?

I've also seen a number of people question the Garropolo pick using Bill's sketchy history with QBs as evidence. To this I have no response except some combination of :BS::facepalm:cuckoo

Despite rarely investing more than 6th, 7th and UDFAs, NE harvested an all-time great and two other fringe starters. QBs are hit or miss in the top 10, let alone in the bottom 50, so that is superb ROI. I suppose you could hold O'Connoll up as a precedent setting misfire, and it is impossible to say anything about Mallet at this point. But when you consider that the Patriots have developed 3 of the top 45 QBs in the league right now despite never investing higher than a 3rd round pick (until this year, of course and not counting Mallett) that demonstrates remarkable scouting acumen. How anyone can view that as evidence to the contrary is beyond me, but what do I know? :shrug:

Something else to factor into that is that all of those QB's that were brought in here in NE were behind Brady.

They simply wouldn't get that much practice or playing time to hone their skill. I'd say that the development work BB has done under these circumstances is to his credit, not his detriment.