Rebuilding The Patriots For 2021 And Beyond

spacecrime

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I’m not a troll, but sometimes I directly state my opinion. It’s pretty low on the current coaching staff.
The Patriots are flat out not making the playoffs for a long time. At least 2 or 3 years. Buffalo could be better next year, the phins will probably be fighting and getting a wild card, and I don’t know if y’all have noticed but the Jets finally hired a competent coach, and have the picks to rebuild a roster that wasn’t as bad as their record would indicate.
So assuming this teams gonna be bad for a long time, what’s the best way to rebuild?
I think taking a QB in the first this year is a mistake if a can’t miss Dlineman, LB, or WR is right there. Fill in with a competent FA vet at the QB position, or get marriota and hope he doesn’t get injured. Have to keep White and Thuney. Pay them now up front. Not on the back end of the deal. Make them happy. We need guys like them who know winning culture. I’m really hoping though they don’t force the issue at QB.
Well, whatever BB does or doesn't do, at least we can be sure you and Mazz will tell us ad nauseum why it was a stupid thing to do or not to have done.
 
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chevss454

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The Pats are actively looking for a QB in FA & the trade market but so far the cost has been too much. The Pats will be patient.

From Jeff Howe - The Athletic


The New England Patriots have been aggressively perusing the quarterback trade market, but they have so far been thwarted by inflated prices in an offseason that is currently siding with the sellers.

Bill Belichick and the Patriots, in pursuit of an upgrade at the position, have had conversations regarding every potential trade target in the league, according to sources.

However, the demand outweighs the supply, and teams aren’t budging at this stage of the process for a couple of reasons. First, the trades of Matthew Stafford and Carson Wentz have caused the prices to tilt out of control. The Rams acquired Stafford for two first-round picks, a third-rounder and quarterback Jared Goff. The Colts landed Wentz for a third-round pick and a conditional first- or second-rounder.

Second, timing remains on the sellers’ side. With three weeks until free agency and the official start of the 2021 league year and two months until the draft, teams don’t feel obliged to pawn off their veteran assets until a buyer shows desperation.

So far, the Patriots have been disciplined in their approach. They spoke to the Lions about Stafford and to the Eagles regarding Wentz, but the Patriots weren’t serious contenders for either quarterback due to the asking price.

The rest of the candidates on the trade market have been well-established: Deshaun Watson, Jimmy Garoppolo, Marcus Mariota and Sam Darnold. It’s possible Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Teddy Bridgewater, Gardner Minshew and Nick Foles are also among that group.

As it was expressed to The Athletic, if a quarterback has been perceived to be available, the Patriots have picked up the phone. The asking price of any of the available quarterbacks has not been disclosed.

It’s understandable why the Patriots haven’t been willing to meet those demands, as the trade candidates outside of Watson and Wilson — if those two are even realistically available — aren’t sure things as franchise quarterbacks.

The Patriots haven’t ruled out the possibility of re-signing Cam Newton, but they have indeed explored the rest of the market before Newton becomes a free agent. Other quarterbacks with expiring contracts include Dak Prescott, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton, Tyrod Taylor, Mitch Trubisky and Jacoby Brissett.

There’s another issue at hand. With the No. 15 pick in the draft, the Patriots are likely out of the range of top prospects like Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence, BYU’s Zach Wilson, Ohio State’s Justin Fields and North Dakota State’s Trey Lance. Given the state of the free-agent class – minus Prescott, who appears to be heading for another franchise tag – teams know the Patriots are in a challenging spot at quarterback and seem to be willing to take a hard line with their negotiating stance.

That’s why the Patriots have been measured. It’s possible other teams will reduce their asking price if conversations dry up before free agency or the draft. It’s also possible the Patriots would increase their offers prior to free agency to lure other veterans, especially at wide receiver and tight end. The possibility also exists that the Patriots are gathering information in totality, assessing the price of every available quarterback before determining which one is worth targeting at his price point. Or perhaps the Patriots are gearing up for a trade in the draft, thereby limiting how much they’re willing to spend in the veteran market.

But until there’s a market correction, the Patriots are being diligent. They’re working to upgrade the position, but they haven’t yet reached the point of overspending on a quarterback, instead preferring to wait for prices to normalize.
 
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chevss454

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A new guy at PFF thinks the Pats should tank for Rattler
Note to new guy - BB doesn't think like that.

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

It really isn’t all that crazy for New England to trot out Jarrett Stidham Week 1. It’d be the best thing for the franchise long-term because the quarterback is the right man for the tank. If the Patriots were to throw in the towel for 2021, they could put themselves in a position to grab the QB who is likely to be the prize of the 2022 class, Oklahoma's Spencer Rattler.

The Patriots' roster is hardly primed for postseason success. This past season, their team as a whole ranked outside the top 20 in total team WAR generated. If they pursue someone like Andy Dalton (69.5 passing grade in 2020) or opt to re-sign Cam Newton (67.8 passing grade in 2020), they’d be setting themselves up for another mediocre season and a middle-of-the-pack draft slot for next year, and that would put them out of reach for one of the top quarterback prospects — Just like they did this year.
 

Inspector_50

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A new guy at PFF thinks the Pats should tank for Rattler
Note to new guy - BB doesn't think like that.

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

It really isn’t all that crazy for New England to trot out Jarrett Stidham Week 1. It’d be the best thing for the franchise long-term because the quarterback is the right man for the tank. If the Patriots were to throw in the towel for 2021, they could put themselves in a position to grab the QB who is likely to be the prize of the 2022 class, Oklahoma's Spencer Rattler.

The Patriots' roster is hardly primed for postseason success. This past season, their team as a whole ranked outside the top 20 in total team WAR generated. If they pursue someone like Andy Dalton (69.5 passing grade in 2020) or opt to re-sign Cam Newton (67.8 passing grade in 2020), they’d be setting themselves up for another mediocre season and a middle-of-the-pack draft slot for next year, and that would put them out of reach for one of the top quarterback prospects — Just like they did this year.
Although that is the coolest last name ever (think of the marketing) yeah not going to happen.
 

Steve1

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A new guy at PFF thinks the Pats should tank for Rattler
Note to new guy - BB doesn't think like that.

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

It really isn’t all that crazy for New England to trot out Jarrett Stidham Week 1. It’d be the best thing for the franchise long-term because the quarterback is the right man for the tank. If the Patriots were to throw in the towel for 2021, they could put themselves in a position to grab the QB who is likely to be the prize of the 2022 class, Oklahoma's Spencer Rattler.

The Patriots' roster is hardly primed for postseason success. This past season, their team as a whole ranked outside the top 20 in total team WAR generated. If they pursue someone like Andy Dalton (69.5 passing grade in 2020) or opt to re-sign Cam Newton (67.8 passing grade in 2020), they’d be setting themselves up for another mediocre season and a middle-of-the-pack draft slot for next year, and that would put them out of reach for one of the top quarterback prospects — Just like they did this year.
chevss454, you do a great job getting all this information, and posting it here. I'm sure a lot of people, who are members of this site, are really happy about that. Thanks for everything!
 

Hawg73

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A new guy at PFF thinks the Pats should tank for Rattler
Note to new guy - BB doesn't think like that.

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

It really isn’t all that crazy for New England to trot out Jarrett Stidham Week 1. It’d be the best thing for the franchise long-term because the quarterback is the right man for the tank. If the Patriots were to throw in the towel for 2021, they could put themselves in a position to grab the QB who is likely to be the prize of the 2022 class, Oklahoma's Spencer Rattler.

The Patriots' roster is hardly primed for postseason success. This past season, their team as a whole ranked outside the top 20 in total team WAR generated. If they pursue someone like Andy Dalton (69.5 passing grade in 2020) or opt to re-sign Cam Newton (67.8 passing grade in 2020), they’d be setting themselves up for another mediocre season and a middle-of-the-pack draft slot for next year, and that would put them out of reach for one of the top quarterback prospects — Just like they did this year.


I'm not as bullish on Stidham as I once was, but PFF's "right man for the tank" is not a fair assessment, because it is impossible to judge Jarrett until he gets a legitimate chance, which he
has clearly not been given. It's frustrating for me to see people knee-jerking all over the place based on the last thing they saw which in this case is strictly garbage-time cameos

It is not an impossibility that Stidham could be a capable QB and maybe more if he were the anointed starter and had game plans drawn up for his skillset and the bulk of the
practice reps. In other words, the same framework for development that just about every decent QB in the league has been handed at some point.

He's still young, still unproven and remains a largely unknown commodity. Anybody that passes final judgement on what he is or could become based on zero starts and 4 picks
in 48 career passes thrown must be Nostradamus. Brady threw 3 in 10 minutes versus Green Bay, so let's pump the brakes until Stidham gets a non-garbage time audition, which
could be coming soon to a stadium near you.

This reminds me so much of the fan's and media's negative attitude towards Jimmy G. after he threw some allegedly bad picks in training camp and when he finally got a chance (Brady suspension) he looked quite a bit better than we'd been told he would. Imagine THAT!!!!
 

Inspector_50

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I'm not as bullish on Stidham as I once was, but PFF's "right man for the tank" is not a fair assessment, because it is impossible to judge Jarrett until he gets a legitimate chance, which he
has clearly not been given. It's frustrating for me to see people knee-jerking all over the place based on the last thing they saw which in this case is strictly garbage-time cameos

It is not an impossibility that Stidham could be a capable QB and maybe more if he were the anointed starter and had game plans drawn up for his skillset and the bulk of the
practice reps. In other words, the same framework for development that just about every decent QB in the league has been handed at some point.

He's still young, still unproven and remains a largely unknown commodity. Anybody that passes final judgement on what he is or could become based on zero starts and 4 picks
in 48 career passes thrown must be Nostradamus. Brady threw 3 in 10 minutes versus Green Bay, so let's pump the brakes until Stidham gets a non-garbage time audition, which
could be coming soon to a stadium near you.

This reminds me so much of the fan's and media's negative attitude towards Jimmy G. after he threw some allegedly bad picks in training camp and when he finally got a chance (Brady suspension) he looked quite a bit better than we'd been told he would. Imagine THAT!!!!
I think JG was what we thought he was, he was the greatest QB to not be able to make it through 3 games here....as far as Stidham compared to Brady for picks....Not sure that is a good comparison...I am not sure what Stidham is, but not sure for whatever reason they are not as enamored with him as they used to be according to reports. We might never know why unless he leaves the teams and tells the story.
 

foobahl

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I'm not as bullish on Stidham as I once was, but PFF's "right man for the tank" is not a fair assessment, because it is impossible to judge Jarrett until he gets a legitimate chance, which he
has clearly not been given. It's frustrating for me to see people knee-jerking all over the place based on the last thing they saw which in this case is strictly garbage-time cameos

It is not an impossibility that Stidham could be a capable QB and maybe more if he were the anointed starter and had game plans drawn up for his skillset and the bulk of the
practice reps. In other words, the same framework for development that just about every decent QB in the league has been handed at some point.

He's still young, still unproven and remains a largely unknown commodity. Anybody that passes final judgement on what he is or could become based on zero starts and 4 picks
in 48 career passes thrown must be Nostradamus. Brady threw 3 in 10 minutes versus Green Bay, so let's pump the brakes until Stidham gets a non-garbage time audition, which
could be coming soon to a stadium near you.

This reminds me so much of the fan's and media's negative attitude towards Jimmy G. after he threw some allegedly bad picks in training camp and when he finally got a chance (Brady suspension) he looked quite a bit better than we'd been told he would. Imagine THAT!!!!
This statement dovetails nicely into the conversation of how BB should be given props for bringing in Brady and making Brady the primary backup qb. What if TFB was not given the opportunity to get some starts until year 4. A couple of mop ups in bad losses when the opposing D has the ears pinned back. Stidham has not been given a legit shot at starting yet and if TFB had been brought along this way, he may never had gotten the shot of being TFB. Yes I know who is coming for me.
 

Inspector_50

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This statement dovetails nicely into the conversation of how BB should be given props for bringing in Brady and making Brady the primary backup qb. What if TFB was not given the opportunity to get some starts until year 4. A couple of mop ups in bad losses when the opposing D has the ears pinned back. Stidham has not been given a legit shot at starting yet and if TFB had been brought along this way, he may never had gotten the shot of being TFB. Yes I know who is coming for me.
Maybe....Brady showed more than Stidham :blink: Maybe that is why Belichick treated them different...I know I know, crazy huh? Anyway. If you are a good player and you have a good coach who can see talent, you will get your shot, its what you do with it is the question. I have not heard much from how Stidham is, or how hard he works, etc etc.
 
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rivshark86

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If Stidham could be the man he’d have been given more of an opportunity. They see him everyday.

He couldn’t make it through training camp. Little things like that hip issue tell you a lot about players. Some guys just don’t have the ability to stay healthy. Some guys just don’t have ability. With stidham it may be both.

Mariota can play. He can’t do it for 16 games. He’ll get nicked up and his play will decline as a result. Same with Jimmy. Him making it through 16 games is the exception not the rule to his career. That said, I’m ok with one or even both of those guys provided they aren’t getting paid like a starter. With either one you need a damn good backup, and you need the cap space to keep a good team around them.
 
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Big/Sky/Fly

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A new guy at PFF thinks the Pats should tank for Rattler
Note to new guy - BB doesn't think like that.

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

It really isn’t all that crazy for New England to trot out Jarrett Stidham Week 1. It’d be the best thing for the franchise long-term because the quarterback is the right man for the tank. If the Patriots were to throw in the towel for 2021, they could put themselves in a position to grab the QB who is likely to be the prize of the 2022 class, Oklahoma's Spencer Rattler.

The Patriots' roster is hardly primed for postseason success. This past season, their team as a whole ranked outside the top 20 in total team WAR generated. If they pursue someone like Andy Dalton (69.5 passing grade in 2020) or opt to re-sign Cam Newton (67.8 passing grade in 2020), they’d be setting themselves up for another mediocre season and a middle-of-the-pack draft slot for next year, and that would put them out of reach for one of the top quarterback prospects — Just like they did this year.
Last year should be proof of that... :coffee:
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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The Pats are actively looking for a QB in FA & the trade market but so far the cost has been too much. The Pats will be patient.

From Jeff Howe - The Athletic


The New England Patriots have been aggressively perusing the quarterback trade market, but they have so far been thwarted by inflated prices in an offseason that is currently siding with the sellers.

Bill Belichick and the Patriots, in pursuit of an upgrade at the position, have had conversations regarding every potential trade target in the league, according to sources.

However, the demand outweighs the supply, and teams aren’t budging at this stage of the process for a couple of reasons. First, the trades of Matthew Stafford and Carson Wentz have caused the prices to tilt out of control. The Rams acquired Stafford for two first-round picks, a third-rounder and quarterback Jared Goff. The Colts landed Wentz for a third-round pick and a conditional first- or second-rounder.

Second, timing remains on the sellers’ side. With three weeks until free agency and the official start of the 2021 league year and two months until the draft, teams don’t feel obliged to pawn off their veteran assets until a buyer shows desperation.

So far, the Patriots have been disciplined in their approach. They spoke to the Lions about Stafford and to the Eagles regarding Wentz, but the Patriots weren’t serious contenders for either quarterback due to the asking price.

The rest of the candidates on the trade market have been well-established: Deshaun Watson, Jimmy Garoppolo, Marcus Mariota and Sam Darnold. It’s possible Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Teddy Bridgewater, Gardner Minshew and Nick Foles are also among that group.

As it was expressed to The Athletic, if a quarterback has been perceived to be available, the Patriots have picked up the phone. The asking price of any of the available quarterbacks has not been disclosed.

It’s understandable why the Patriots haven’t been willing to meet those demands, as the trade candidates outside of Watson and Wilson — if those two are even realistically available — aren’t sure things as franchise quarterbacks.

The Patriots haven’t ruled out the possibility of re-signing Cam Newton, but they have indeed explored the rest of the market before Newton becomes a free agent. Other quarterbacks with expiring contracts include Dak Prescott, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton, Tyrod Taylor, Mitch Trubisky and Jacoby Brissett.

There’s another issue at hand. With the No. 15 pick in the draft, the Patriots are likely out of the range of top prospects like Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence, BYU’s Zach Wilson, Ohio State’s Justin Fields and North Dakota State’s Trey Lance. Given the state of the free-agent class – minus Prescott, who appears to be heading for another franchise tag – teams know the Patriots are in a challenging spot at quarterback and seem to be willing to take a hard line with their negotiating stance.

That’s why the Patriots have been measured. It’s possible other teams will reduce their asking price if conversations dry up before free agency or the draft. It’s also possible the Patriots would increase their offers prior to free agency to lure other veterans, especially at wide receiver and tight end. The possibility also exists that the Patriots are gathering information in totality, assessing the price of every available quarterback before determining which one is worth targeting at his price point. Or perhaps the Patriots are gearing up for a trade in the draft, thereby limiting how much they’re willing to spend in the veteran market.

But until there’s a market correction, the Patriots are being diligent. They’re working to upgrade the position, but they haven’t yet reached the point of overspending on a quarterback, instead preferring to wait for prices to normalize.
Fitzmagic and/or Minshew would be low cost, low risk, decent possibility of reward bridge QB's imo...
 

3 Point Stan

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Am I the only one that would rather give the 2008 Lions a run for their money than sign Fitzpatrick and see them go 6-10?

Honestly, if they can't get a QB this offseason and can bring Cam back for another $1 million deal, why not consider that route? No, I don't love that, and it would suck. But at least Cam Newtown firmly believes he still has a place in this league. I can't say that is true of any other FA QB.
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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Am I the only one that would rather give the 2008 Lions a run for their money than sign Fitzpatrick and see them go 6-10?

Honestly, if they can't get a QB this offseason and can bring Cam back for another $1 million deal, why not consider that route? No, I don't love that, and it would suck. But at least Cam Newtown firmly believes he still has a place in this league. I can't say that is true of any other FA QB.
Sign/trade for Fitzmagic or Minshew...AND draft Mac Jones. Unless BB wants Ridder on the Cincinnati Bearcats. The trades/free agency additions are ONLY used for bridge QB's.
 

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Am I the only one that would rather give the 2008 Lions a run for their money than sign Fitzpatrick and see them go 6-10?

Honestly, if they can't get a QB this offseason and can bring Cam back for another $1 million deal, why not consider that route? No, I don't love that, and it would suck. But at least Cam Newtown firmly believes he still has a place in this league. I can't say that is true of any other FA QB.

I recall when Red Auerbach drafted Larry Bird a year prior to his becoming draft eligible and we got the unique opportunity to
watch a guy that we knew was coming here play his final year in college. And it was pretty damn exciting. No guesswork involved.

Of course that was basketball and it didn't require the judgement of Auerbach to see that that kid was incredible. 5 guys on the floor and
one of them it constantly involved in the action. Bird was brilliant at everything.

Anyhow, I can't see Bill tanking anything for anybody. I just think he'd refuse to ever consider that because he has too much respect for
the game and the players who make up each team to do something like that. I do believe he has "tanked" a game here or there for various
reasons, but all fell into the category of bettering the team's chances to win a Championship in that same season, but.....a whole year? Nah. Not Bill. No way.

It's an interesting debate, but I don't want to see us go the way of the Colts starting Curtis Painter in order to land Andrew Luck and then lying
there were actually trying. Bill does some strange shit, but I can't imagine him not trying to compete. There is just too much that can go wrong
in football and he has too much integrity.

Also, I wouldn't be shocked if Cam came back, either, although the offseason would have to go completely sideways for that to happen. I think he'd
be a useful situational back-up guy, ala Taysom Hill, but I don't want him as a starter in 2021 no matter how great a guy he is.
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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I recall when Red Auerbach drafted Larry Bird a year prior to his becoming draft eligible and we got the unique opportunity to
watch a guy that we knew was coming here play his final year in college. And it was pretty damn exciting. No guesswork involved.

Of course that was basketball and it didn't require the judgement of Auerbach to see that that kid was incredible. 5 guys on the floor and
one of them it constantly involved in the action. Bird was brilliant at everything.

Anyhow, I can't see Bill tanking anything for anybody. I just think he'd refuse to ever consider that because he has too much respect for
the game and the players who make up each team to do something like that. I do believe he has "tanked" a game here or there for various
reasons, but all fell into the category of bettering the team's chances to win a Championship in that same season, but.....a whole year? Nah. Not Bill. No way.

It's an interesting debate, but I don't want to see us go the way of the Colts starting Curtis Painter in order to land Andrew Luck and then lying
there were actually trying. Bill does some strange shit, but I can't imagine him not trying to compete. There is just too much that can go wrong
in football and he has too much integrity.

Also, I wouldn't be shocked if Cam came back, either, although the offseason would have to go completely sideways for that to happen. I think he'd
be a useful situational back-up guy, ala Taysom Hill, but I don't want him as a starter in 2021 no matter how great a guy he is.
I started a thread about that...it's the only way that would make sense for sCam to stay in NE. Transform him into a Taysom Hill gadget player. Have him play FB, TE, QB in specific situations. NOT a starter, but, a Swiss Army situational player.
 

rivshark86

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What NFL team won a super bowl by tanking?

I guess the colts were pretty bad when they drafted Manning, but looking back on it there aren’t many teams that tanked their way to success.
 
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