Sean Payton - Most Underrated Coach in the League?

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Mazz22

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My first thought, too. I like Payton a lot but if he's so damn good why is his post season resume filled up with Wildcard and Divisional losses with only 1 breakthrough to the SB?
What he is is a pretty straight shooter who knows how to coach the QB position. That's his specialty. Under Parcells with the Cowboys he got 3000 yds out of Vinny Testeverde. That was impressive but he's also responsible for the Cowboys drafting Tony Romo. I don't know how I feel about that.
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Brees unfortunately is a playoff choker on the level of Manning.
 

chevss454

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Brees unfortunately is a playoff choker on the level of Manning.

I don't agree but let's say your assertion is true - Doesn't that go right back on Sean Payton, the acknowledged QB guru of the NFL for years?


Now for your assertion that Brees is a playoff choker. Where do you get that ill-informed nonsense? Link for stats to back up your claim, please.

His stats say his QB performances in the playoffs were a continuation of his very good regular season performances. Unless, of course, you're only remembering last year when he could barely throw a football. That wouldn't make him a choker. That would make him injured. 1 year out of 10.
 

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Some of that is on the player though. I know people like to think players are just products, but you can have the greatest coach in the world and if you start throwing interceptions, you are going to lose. Play calls are only as good as the execution of it. I mean Shula had Marino forever and never won and without a cap. Sometimes the player not playing good stops that winning a superbowl thing. All I can say is He took winston who is throwing to everyone but his own team and made him look like an all pro. That is doing something for sure and not every coach can do that. Now with that said, how his management of the roster and things like that, not sure. He built a great defense a great run game, great oline, but with all that his hall of fame QB turned the ball over 3 times in a game at home to go to the NFC title game....hard to pin that on the coach.
Winston started one game for NO. Let's not put him in the hall of fame yet, mmmkay. Maybe revisit this thread in December.
 
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Now for your assertion that Brees is a playoff choker. Where do you get that ill-informed nonsense? Link for stats to back up your claim, please.

His stats say his QB performances in the playoffs were a continuation of his very good regular season performances. Unless, of course, you're only remembering last year when he could barely throw a football. That wouldn't make him a choker. That would make him injured. 1 year out of 10.
His post-season record is 9-9. Since his one SB win in 2009, his post-season record is 5-7 with losses to the Vikings twice when he was the favorite, a loss to the Rams when he was also favored as the #1 seed and had the ball in OT and threw the game ending pick that led to the Rams OT FG for the win and then of course last year when he his team had smoked the Bucs twice in the regular season and he puked all over himself with 3 picks that led to 3 Tampa TDs. Like I said, he is right on par with Manning for playoff choking.
 

chevss454

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His post-season record is 9-9. Since his one SB win in 2009, his post-season record is 5-7 with losses to the Vikings twice when he was the favorite, a loss to the Rams when he was also favored as the #1 seed and had the ball in OT and threw the game ending pick that led to the Rams OT FG for the win and then of course last year when he his team had smoked the Bucs twice in the regular season and he puked all over himself with 3 picks that led to 3 Tampa TDs. Like I said, he is right on par with Manning for playoff choking.

LOL. You sure do think funny.

You're falling into the familiar trap of using wins to evaluate QB performance. "...he was the favorite, a loss to the Rams when he was also favored". You know better than that.
The team was favored!!

Go look at his personal QB stats to get the cold hard truth.
You'll find his playoff stats barely dropped even as the playoff competition got much better. His QB stats stayed even keel.
Here, I'll do the work so you can see for yourself.

You can easily toggle between career and playoffs. EZ

Except, of course for last year, when he could barely throw a football bc of his shoulder injury. 1 bad year in 10 does not make him a playoff choker as you assert.

So maybe it wasn't that Brees "is a playoff choker" after all. Maybe instead it's that HC Sean Payton is the choker who spit the bit.
 
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Mazz22

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LOL. You sure do think funny.

You're falling into the familiar trap of using wins to evaluate QB performance. "...he was the favorite, a loss to the Rams when he was also favored". You know better than that.
The team was favored!!

Go look at his personal QB stats to get the cold hard truth.
You'll find his playoff stats barely dropped even as the playoff competition got much better. His QB stats stayed even keel.
Here, I'll do the work so you can see for yourself.

You can easily toggle between career and playoffs. EZ

Except, of course for last year, when he could barely throw a football bc of his shoulder injury. 1 bad year in 10 does not make him a playoff choker as you assert.

So maybe it wasn't that Brees "is a playoff choker" after all. Maybe instead it's that HC Sean Payton is the choker who spit the bit.
Chevs, you know stats are not what counts in the post-season. No one is looking at stats to measure greatness in the post-season. It's wins and being clutch. Brees has ZERO game winning drives/4th quarter comebacks in the playoffs. Even Manning has 2. His choke jobs vs the Vikings and Rams are pretty legendary. Go to the Saints Super fan forum. Even his own fanbase calls him one of the biggest chokers. The Saints should have been in the SB the last 4 seasons when just about every football analyst/pundit had them as the favorites.
 

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brees is not a consistently great postseason or clutch qb. that is at the feet of him and his hc. and qbs do not have w-l records. i am going by situational performances.
 

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Chevs, you know stats are not what counts in the post-season. No one is looking at stats to measure greatness in the post-season. It's wins and being clutch. Brees has ZERO game winning drives/4th quarter comebacks in the playoffs. Even Manning has 2. His choke jobs vs the Vikings and Rams are pretty legendary. Go to the Saints Super fan forum. Even his own fanbase calls him one of the biggest chokers. The Saints should have been in the SB the last 4 seasons when just about every football analyst/pundit had them as the favorites.

Considering those losses took a miraculous play by the Vikings and a completely botched call by the refs against the Rams, it seems a little odd that you mention those. Oh yeah, here you are twisting the truth to fit your agenda again...

Unless, you mean, you expected Brees to be able to somehow overcome that...
 
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brees is not a consistently great postseason or clutch qb. that is at the feet of him and his hc. and qbs do not have w-l records. i am going by situational performances.
Him not being clutch has nothing to do with Payton. Either a QB has that trait or he doesn't. See Browns/Chiefs game for examples of both.
 

HSanders

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Him not being clutch has nothing to do with Payton. Either a QB has that trait or he doesn't. See Browns/Chiefs game for examples of both.
your coach can do some to not put you in those positions if you struggle there.
 
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your coach can do some to not put you in those positions if you struggle there.
He really can't. Playoff games often come down to the last possession for the win. Either you deliver in those moments or you don't. Brees rarely did outside of the 2009 playoffs.
 

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He really can't. Playoff games often come down to the last possession for the win. Either you deliver in those moments or you don't. Brees rarely did outside of the 2009 playoffs.
so anytime the offense has the last drive and doesn't score to win, the qb is the failure?
 
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so anytime the offense has the last drive and doesn't score to win, the qb is the failure?
It depends on the situation and why the drive failed but greatness for QBs is always judged by how he performs in the clutch and his ability to lead his team to championships.
 

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Him not being clutch has nothing to do with Payton. Either a QB has that trait or he doesn't. See Browns/Chiefs game for examples of both.

He really can't. Playoff games often come down to the last possession for the win. Either you deliver in those moments or you don't. Brees rarely did outside of the 2009 playoffs.

It depends on the situation and why the drive failed but greatness for QBs is always judged by how he performs in the clutch and his ability to lead his team to championships.


ALERT!!!!

Be careful folks.....

Mazz is transitioning this "Belichick is the worst" thread into a "Brady is the God of all humans" thread.

That is a train at the end of the tunnel...
 

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ALERT!!!!

Be careful folks.....

Mazz is transitioning this "Belichick is the worst" thread into a "Brady is the God of all humans" thread.

That is a train at the end of the tunnel...

Would this be a one trick pony or a two trick pony? :coffee:
 

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His post-season record is 9-9. Since his one SB win in 2009, his post-season record is 5-7 with losses to the Vikings twice when he was the favorite, a loss to the Rams when he was also favored as the #1 seed and had the ball in OT and threw the game ending pick that led to the Rams OT FG for the win and then of course last year when he his team had smoked the Bucs twice in the regular season and he puked all over himself with 3 picks that led to 3 Tampa TDs. Like I said, he is right on par with Manning for playoff choking.
A .500 record in the playoffs is pretty solid. It's more or less a continuation of a typical record against playoff teams in the regular season. Even if you're around 12-4 or 11-5 every year, more than half the teams you play don't make the playoffs (because you're one of them and there are only 5 others in your conference and you're only playing 1-2 MAYBE 3 in a freak year from the other conference. So statistically, over time, you're right around .500 against the teams that made the playoffs in that year.
 
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