SUPER Wildcard Weekend Game Patriots @ Bills Gamete Thread - Saturday 8:15 PM

[Patriots44]

Something was definitely different coming out of the bye. will be interesting to find out if something like you suggest turns out to be true

 

[foobahl]

I'd call it a possibility, but injuries are not contagious and whatever happened during the bye seemed to infect the
entire defense at the same time. Nobody moreso than Judon, though. He went from unblockable to invisible. From
making plays to chasing them and it don't make sense.

I suspect that, over the course of the coming weeks, we'll hear something about a management decision that was
wildly unpopular among the players and served to kill their mojo. I have no evidence to back this up, other than the
somewhat weird Mac Jones' comments about "not practicing well" during the bye week, but I think
SOMETHING happened that upset the players a great deal, because they looked different in demeanor, style and
certainly the results from that point forward. I'll eliminate the Jags game because they simply weren't a competitive
opponent, imo. The rest of them marched on us seemingly at will.

Since I brought it up, I'll take a wild guess as to what MAY have happened.

Let's say that the players felt comfortable with the alleged duo of Jerod Mayo, whose role has never been publicly defined and
Steve Belichick, whose had been described as the defensive play-caller and de-facto coordinator. Earlier this season,
Matt Patricia had been re-hired but, again, his role was unknown. I believe the term "quality-control" was mentioned,
but whatever we did see him sitting alone in a booth during a game with a pencil and a notebook scribbling notes.

What if Patricia was privately installed, during the bye week, as the untitled Defensive Coordinator? Did our defense subsequently begin
to resemble a uber-conservative and ineffective Matt Patricia Defense with little pressure on the opponent's QBs? Did
we start to see more and more pre-snap uncertainty and hand-waving which had disappeared since MP left for
Detroit? Patricia has been described as wildly unpopular among his players from time-to-time and if that was the case
here then they may have felt like nothing was broke, so why fix it? and things started snowballing downhill from there. That could
explain the going-through-the-motions body language and complete lack of emotion that culminated in 7 straight TD drives
last night.

Put it this way-- how many times has Bill Belichick stated "we got outcoached" during the backstretch? Maybe that is because
he tried to jam a square peg into a round hole and it blew up in his face.

I'd be interested if anybody else had any similar thoughts. Something was rotten in Foxboro and I expect we will hear rumors
as to what that something was pretty soon.

Now that you say it out loud, I was confused by the way the defense never seemed set prior to the snap. I mean lining up over the center? That was the first time I had seen that called.

 

[Roberto71]

I feel

I'd call it a possibility, but injuries are not contagious and whatever happened during the bye seemed to infect the
entire defense at the same time. Nobody moreso than Judon, though. He went from unblockable to invisible. From
making plays to chasing them and it don't make sense.

I suspect that, over the course of the coming weeks, we'll hear something about a management decision that was
wildly unpopular among the players and served to kill their mojo. I have no evidence to back this up, other than the
somewhat weird Mac Jones' comments about "not practicing well" during the bye week, but I think
SOMETHING happened that upset the players a great deal, because they looked different in demeanor, style and
certainly the results from that point forward. I'll eliminate the Jags game because they simply weren't a competitive
opponent, imo. The rest of them marched on us seemingly at will.

Since I brought it up, I'll take a wild guess as to what MAY have happened.

Let's say that the players felt comfortable with the alleged duo of Jerod Mayo, whose role has never been publicly defined and
Steve Belichick, whose had been described as the defensive play-caller and de-facto coordinator. Earlier this season,
Matt Patricia had been re-hired but, again, his role was unknown. I believe the term "quality-control" was mentioned,
but whatever we did see him sitting alone in a booth during a game with a pencil and a notebook scribbling notes.

What if Patricia was privately installed, during the bye week, as the untitled Defensive Coordinator? Did our defense subsequently begin
to resemble a uber-conservative and ineffective Matt Patricia Defense with little pressure on the opponent's QBs? Did
we start to see more and more pre-snap uncertainty and hand-waving which had disappeared since MP left for
Detroit? Patricia has been described as wildly unpopular among his players from time-to-time and if that was the case
here then they may have felt like nothing was broke, so why fix it? and things started snowballing downhill from there. That could
explain the going-through-the-motions body language and complete lack of emotion that culminated in 7 straight TD drives
last night.

Put it this way-- how many times has Bill Belichick stated "we got outcoached" during the backstretch? Maybe that is because
he tried to jam a square peg into a round hole and it blew up in his face.

I'd be interested if anybody else had any similar thoughts. Something was rotten in Foxboro and I expect we will hear rumors
as to what that something was pretty soon.

I'm not getting there I have to say. I think Chevs would have mentioned any issue and Mac's comments were just an honest statement which Bill agreed with days later iirc. The team has been together and the spirit has been excellent. They just regressed for some bizarre reason post-bye. It might be impossible to find out why because it could be just one of those unexplainables that happens in sport.

Judon I firmly believe is struggling post-Covid. It's a genuine energy sapper and I've seen it too many times now in other sports I follow like Rugby, Soccer etc

I then think injuries caught up at DB and then you have High just not firing, age catching up on Dev as well. And critically, we were getting no turnovers....we absolutely deepened on those in our 7 game streak and then they dried up.

One odd element has been the lack of game time for Uche and Wino. They are young guys full of energy who I think should have brought into spark things at the very least.

 

[imapig]

I'd call it a possibility, but injuries are not contagious and whatever happened during the bye seemed to infect the
entire defense at the same time. Nobody moreso than Judon, though. He went from unblockable to invisible. From
making plays to chasing them and it don't make sense.

I suspect that, over the course of the coming weeks, we'll hear something about a management decision that was
wildly unpopular among the players and served to kill their mojo. I have no evidence to back this up, other than the
somewhat weird Mac Jones' comments about "not practicing well" during the bye week, but I think
SOMETHING happened that upset the players a great deal, because they looked different in demeanor, style and
certainly the results from that point forward. I'll eliminate the Jags game because they simply weren't a competitive
opponent, imo. The rest of them marched on us seemingly at will.

Since I brought it up, I'll take a wild guess as to what MAY have happened.

Let's say that the players felt comfortable with the alleged duo of Jerod Mayo, whose role has never been publicly defined and
Steve Belichick, whose had been described as the defensive play-caller and de-facto coordinator. Earlier this season,
Matt Patricia had been re-hired but, again, his role was unknown. I believe the term "quality-control" was mentioned,
but whatever we did see him sitting alone in a booth during a game with a pencil and a notebook scribbling notes.

What if Patricia was privately installed, during the bye week, as the untitled Defensive Coordinator? Did our defense subsequently begin
to resemble a uber-conservative and ineffective Matt Patricia Defense with little pressure on the opponent's QBs? Did
we start to see more and more pre-snap uncertainty and hand-waving which had disappeared since MP left for
Detroit? Patricia has been described as wildly unpopular among his players from time-to-time and if that was the case
here then they may have felt like nothing was broke, so why fix it? and things started snowballing downhill from there. That could
explain the going-through-the-motions body language and complete lack of emotion that culminated in 7 straight TD drives
last night.

Put it this way-- how many times has Bill Belichick stated "we got outcoached" during the backstretch? Maybe that is because
he tried to jam a square peg into a round hole and it blew up in his face.

I'd be interested if anybody else had any similar thoughts. Something was rotten in Foxboro and I expect we will hear rumors
as to what that something was pretty soon.

It could be injuries and maybe it really restricted the team defensively. But I think you’re onto something. It’s one thing to be hindered physically but to be mentally checked out is a different story and that defense checked out.
They were playing out of their minds Before the bye week and you’re right something happened and maybe it is Patricia. Whatever it is Belichick better find a way to get the mojo back or next year will be just as bad. You need to have your players all In buy in or you’re never going anywhere.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Next Thanksgiving at the Belichicks; Bill: "please pass the mashed Steve". Steve: "I'm in cover 2, why don't you try for them old man!"

With the crazy tongue in play...

 

[Grogan]

Any slim chance the Patriots had of making the game at least competitive went completely out the window with Jones' first pass attempt of the second half. That drive started off promisingly enough with three runs getting them to midfield but then Jones made an awful throw. Game over

Really? The Bill's never punted the entire game!!! Mac Jones was not the problem, the defense put him in a position where he had to take chances. Not to mention the drops.

 

[aloyouis]

I agree with this. I also found the play calling to be "subdued" in that there were few plays that attacked the Bills aggressiveness. I was hoping for some play action calls and don't remember seeing one.

Little to no play action. No hurry up. No creativity. Josh slightly less predictable but still predictable. Does anyone think Mac can't handle entire playbook?

 

[crawhammer]

Something was definitely different coming out of the bye. will be interesting to find out if something like you suggest turns out to be true

The something different was the competition. Indy playing well at that time. Buffalo twice, who's just a much better team unless you're playing them in a hurricane. And Miami who won 8 of their last 9. They never had the lead in any of their final four losses and their offense isn't built for comebacks.

 

[chevss454]

Agholor was in a full sprint with a defender on his back. The throw was a bit underthrown. Why is that so hard to acknowledge?

All the more reason he should have attacked the ball by jumping up (high-pointing) & reaching out for the ball (catch-pointing) so the guy on his back didn't do it first to pluck the ball off his shoulder. A great catch-point WR uses several techniques and timing to make certain he catches the ball in traffic instead of having it stolen from him.
Look, I don't want to argue with you but I'll help you learn. I've been studying the WR position since 2013 and I've been scouting WRs in the draft since 2014 on this site.

All you have to do is google High-point and catch-point drills for WRs to learn what Agholor should have/could have done to catch the ball.

Great masters of the art of both high-pointing and catch-pointing? Randy Moss and Mike Evans. Did you EVER see a ball thrown to Randy Moss stolen away from him in traffic? Watching Mike Evans at Texas A&M got me interested in the WR position. The guy was incredible. I wanted him really badly for the Pats. He was the 7th pick, lol.

Shorter guys can be great catch-point artists but they aren't by definition high-pointers. 5'9" Steve Smith Sr. was one the very best. Balls were rarely stolen from him. Boldin was another. He wasn't short but he couldn't jump. Both used physicality and body shielding to pluck the ball.

Anyway, have fun.

 

[TommyD420]

I'd call it a possibility, but injuries are not contagious and whatever happened during the bye seemed to infect the
entire defense at the same time. Nobody moreso than Judon, though. He went from unblockable to invisible. From
making plays to chasing them and it don't make sense.

I suspect that, over the course of the coming weeks, we'll hear something about a management decision that was
wildly unpopular among the players and served to kill their mojo. I have no evidence to back this up, other than the
somewhat weird Mac Jones' comments about "not practicing well" during the bye week, but I think
SOMETHING happened that upset the players a great deal, because they looked different in demeanor, style and
certainly the results from that point forward. I'll eliminate the Jags game because they simply weren't a competitive
opponent, imo. The rest of them marched on us seemingly at will.

Since I brought it up, I'll take a wild guess as to what MAY have happened.

Let's say that the players felt comfortable with the alleged duo of Jerod Mayo, whose role has never been publicly defined and
Steve Belichick, whose had been described as the defensive play-caller and de-facto coordinator. Earlier this season,
Matt Patricia had been re-hired but, again, his role was unknown. I believe the term "quality-control" was mentioned,
but whatever we did see him sitting alone in a booth during a game with a pencil and a notebook scribbling notes.

What if Patricia was privately installed, during the bye week, as the untitled Defensive Coordinator? Did our defense subsequently begin
to resemble a uber-conservative and ineffective Matt Patricia Defense with little pressure on the opponent's QBs? Did
we start to see more and more pre-snap uncertainty and hand-waving which had disappeared since MP left for
Detroit? Patricia has been described as wildly unpopular among his players from time-to-time and if that was the case
here then they may have felt like nothing was broke, so why fix it? and things started snowballing downhill from there. That could
explain the going-through-the-motions body language and complete lack of emotion that culminated in 7 straight TD drives
last night.

Put it this way-- how many times has Bill Belichick stated "we got outcoached" during the backstretch? Maybe that is because
he tried to jam a square peg into a round hole and it blew up in his face.

I'd be interested if anybody else had any similar thoughts. Something was rotten in Foxboro and I expect we will hear rumors
as to what that something was pretty soon.

Nah. It was covid.

 

[ParanoidPatriot]

The 2 announcers, Ian Eagle and Charles Davis, made watching that hot mess of a game even worse.
I like Davis when he's doing draft stuff on NFLN. But both of them were awful last night.

 

[spacecrime]

Any slim chance the Patriots had of making the game at least competitive went completely out the window with Jones' first pass attempt of the second half. That drive started off promisingly enough with three runs getting them to midfield but then Jones made an awful throw. Game over right there.

Crawhammer,

I'm not sure of your message here. Is it:

1. Once a team has a bad play in a game, they will play badly for the rest of the game and have no chance of winning, or
2. One bad play in the second half has a bigger effect on the final score than being down 27-3 in the second half?

Question for you. Do you...:

1. Do you just post all this nonsense because you like to stir the pot, or
2. Do you really believe what you said and are therefore a moron with zero football knowledge, or
3. Do you crave attention because everyone you know ignores and/or shuns you?

These are at least semi-serious questions. Seriously, why would you post this?

 

[chevss454]

Nah. It was covid.

Agree. Judon could still be suffering after effects of Covid the same way Cam did last year. His energy level was way down from his pre-Covid energy level.

I'd call it a possibility, but injuries are not contagious and whatever happened during the bye seemed to infect the
entire defense at the same time. Nobody moreso than Judon, though. He went from unblockable to invisible. From
making plays to chasing them and it don't make sense.

I suspect that, over the course of the coming weeks, we'll hear something about a management decision that was
wildly unpopular among the players and served to kill their mojo. I have no evidence to back this up, other than the
somewhat weird Mac Jones' comments about "not practicing well" during the bye week, but I think
SOMETHING happened that upset the players a great deal, because they looked different in demeanor, style and
certainly the results from that point forward. I'll eliminate the Jags game because they simply weren't a competitive
opponent, imo. The rest of them marched on us seemingly at will.

Since I brought it up, I'll take a wild guess as to what MAY have happened.

Let's say that the players felt comfortable with the alleged duo of Jerod Mayo, whose role has never been publicly defined and
Steve Belichick, whose had been described as the defensive play-caller and de-facto coordinator. Earlier this season,
Matt Patricia had been re-hired but, again, his role was unknown. I believe the term "quality-control" was mentioned,
but whatever we did see him sitting alone in a booth during a game with a pencil and a notebook scribbling notes.

What if Patricia was privately installed, during the bye week, as the untitled Defensive Coordinator? Did our defense subsequently begin
to resemble a uber-conservative and ineffective Matt Patricia Defense with little pressure on the opponent's QBs? Did
we start to see more and more pre-snap uncertainty and hand-waving which had disappeared since MP left for
Detroit? Patricia has been described as wildly unpopular among his players from time-to-time and if that was the case
here then they may have felt like nothing was broke, so why fix it? and things started snowballing downhill from there. That could
explain the going-through-the-motions body language and complete lack of emotion that culminated in 7 straight TD drives
last night.

Put it this way-- how many times has Bill Belichick stated "we got outcoached" during the backstretch? Maybe that is because
he tried to jam a square peg into a round hole and it blew up in his face.

I'd be interested if anybody else had any similar thoughts. Something was rotten in Foxboro and I expect we will hear rumors
as to what that something was pretty soon.

I'll ask a few folks about the Matt Patricia angle. It's an intriguing possibility and one that makes good sense. No one has mentioned it.
I was told early in the season that his input to strategy and scheme was minimal and indirect, that he was limited to scouting and data gathering - Ernie Adams' role.
That could have evolved into more direct impact. I'll try to find out.

Another explanation could be all the DB injuries/Covid. Not having good coverage makes pass rushing and blitzing more risky. That's what I've been attributing our defensive letdown to in addition to Covid in the front 7 ranks.

 

[chevss454]

Agholor was in a full sprint with a defender on his back. The throw was a bit underthrown. Why is that so hard to acknowledge?

steve smith who WAS an nfl receiver said the exact same thing chevss did way earlier...agholor should have high pointed it. maurice jones drew agreed. aside from the fact they are virulent mac jones homers() they both played offense in the nfl at a high level. but whatever.

All the more reason he should have attacked the ball by jumping up (high-pointing) & reaching out for the ball (catch-pointing) so the guy on his back didn't do it first to pluck the ball off his shoulder. A great catch-point WR uses several techniques and timing to make certain he catches the ball in traffic instead of having it stolen from him.
Look, I don't want to argue with you but I'll help you learn. I've been studying the WR position since 2013 and I've been scouting WRs in the draft since 2014 on this site.

All you have to do is google High-point and catch-point drills for WRs to learn what Agholor should have/could have done to catch the ball.

Great masters of the art of both high-pointing and catch-pointing? Randy Moss and Mike Evans. Did you EVER see a ball thrown to Randy Moss stolen away from him in traffic? Watching Mike Evans at Texas A&M got me interested in the WR position. The guy was incredible. I wanted him really badly for the Pats. He was the 7th pick, lol.

Shorter guys can be great catch-point artists but they aren't by definition high-pointers. 5'9" Steve Smith Sr. was one the very best. Balls were rarely stolen from him. Boldin was another. He wasn't short but he couldn't jump. Both used physicality and body shielding to pluck the ball.

Anyway, have fun.

Here's a pretty good article on the art of catching the football

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Chapter02.pdf

 

[Darth Despot]

The game was not lost because of Mac Jones.

The disappearing defense owns the largest slice of the blame pie.

 

[Patriots44]

The something different was the competition. Indy playing well at that time. Buffalo twice, who's just a much better team unless you're playing them in a hurricane. And Miami who won 8 of their last 9. They never had the lead in any of their final four losses and their offense isn't built for comebacks.

The something different was the competition. Indy playing well at that time. Buffalo twice, who's just a much better team unless you're playing them in a hurricane. And Miami who won 8 of their last 9. They never had the lead in any of their final four losses and their offense isn't built for comebacks.

Competition was tough in that last stretch (save for the Jags) but they beat the titans, bills, chargers (almost a playoff team), and browns (who knows one week to another). they also took bucs and cowboys to the brink... all earlier in the year. They clearly had something going on that last stretch beyond just the competition. it's not that they lost, but how they lost.
Mac Rookie Wall, and teams figuring him out?
Covid and injuries (not an excuse, all teams dealing with that, but you can't ignore it either)
D injuries (known or unknown?), key players are old and couldn't hold up? D sure looked worse
if you just don't want to consider that it was part "this" and part "that", then don't. many of us think something looked wrong since the bye. just our opinion. you are free to have your own.

 

[crawhammer]

Crawhammer,

I'm not sure of your message here. Is it:

1. Once a team has a bad play in a game, they will play badly for the rest of the game and have no chance of winning, or
2. One bad play in the second half has a bigger effect on the final score than being down 27-3 in the second half?

If you weren't so obviously obtuse then I wouldn't have to reiterate an obvious point.

The game's not over at 27-3, agreed? Or should the Patriots have just forfeited at halftime? If the Patriots score on the opening drive of the second half then they're only down 17 points which is a manageable deficit for any competent professional football team with the time that would have been left in the game. However, Jones made a bad play, throwing a pick that Buffalo turned into a touchdown which put the game away with the Patriots now down 30. I'm willing to acknowledge the obvious, which Jones is contributed to the loss, while homers like you are singing his praises like he went 29-37 for 271 and 2 TD's in a winning performance.

Question for you. Do you...:

1. Do you just post all this nonsense because you like to stir the pot, or
2. Do you really believe what you said and are therefore a moron with zero football knowledge, or
3. Do you crave attention because everyone you know ignores and/or shuns you?

These are at least semi-serious questions. Seriously, why would you post this?

 

[crawhammer]

Competition was tough in that last stretch (save for the Jags) but they beat the titans, bills, chargers (almost a playoff team), and browns (who knows one week to another). they also took bucs and cowboys to the brink... all earlier in the year. They clearly had something going on that last stretch beyond just the competition. it's not that they lost, but how they lost.
Mac Rookie Wall, and teams figuring him out?
Covid and injuries (not an excuse, all teams dealing with that, but you can't ignore it either)
D injuries (known or unknown?), key players are old and couldn't hold up? D sure looked worse
if you just don't want to consider that it was part "this" and part "that", then don't. many of us think something looked wrong since the bye. just our opinion. you are free to have your own.

Every team deals with injuries or what not. For instance, during that win streak many of their opponents had significant injury issues. The first Buffalo matchup meant nothing because of the conditions and we know now that given reasonable playing conditions the Bills are a much better team. The defense got exposed during the 1-4 finish as did the team's coaching and preparation. Slow starts, dumb penalties, sloppy special teams... that's at least in part on the coaching.

 

[Patriots44]

Every team deals with injuries or what not. For instance, during that win streak many of their opponents had significant injury issues. The first Buffalo matchup meant nothing because of the conditions and we know now that given reasonable playing conditions the Bills are a much better team. The defense got exposed during the 1-4 finish as did the team's coaching and preparation. Slow starts, dumb penalties, sloppy special teams... that's at least in part on the coaching.

yes, you have said that repeatedly. Pats did benefit from other teams having their own issues at the time they played. no one is denying that. that's how it goes both ways.
first bills game both teams had to play in those elements. Pats handled it better. that's not a knock on them. To the Bills credit they used that as motivation, and no one here (not me) disagrees the bills are a better team. I hope they saved some of that for the Chiefs (sorry AOT, I'm watching Ben being totally inept against the Chiefs, although the Pitt D is doing well)

this is the last I'm going to address this topic. if you want to repeat what you've been saying, go ahead. you made your point, but if you need to make it again (and again) feel free

 

[Muse]

No, there's no need