The 2021 Draft- We Need This One

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Hawg73 said:
I watched a feature called QB21 with Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones last night and it's similar (not as good, tho) to Gruden's QB camp. I've given up any hope of landing Mac, because I feel like the secret is out and remain unconcerned with the herd's criticism over his game. I maintain that he is the closest thing to Brady I've seen in the last 20 years and would be THE perfect fit in Foxboro.

I've already stated my case on him several times, so will attempt to not beat it to death, but the show (on ESPN) dug into his back story and featured a film session that illustrated who the guy is. He understood every aspect of what was happening in each case presented and broke it down with ease. He's a natural.

Lately, I keep seeing references to big armed, perfectly put-together guys with all the right numbers who were Draft Day Darlings but flamed out in the NFL because they couldn't figure out how to avoid trouble long enough to hold that job and gain vital experience. They forced their teams to move on from them. This is where Jones stands out, I believe. He can figure out the vectors/patterns and deliver the ball to one of his guys and not the guys in the other jerseys. Folks forget that Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady in the early years here, but managed games beautifully almost from the jump and moved the sticks behind a scheme that limited his exposure to areas where he needed time to work things out. The TDs followed and over time he improved his arm strength and accuracy, along with everything else and became the GOAT. I will also dare to chum the local waters by suggesting that Mac throws the ball quite a bit better than Tom did coming into the NFL at all 3 levels. OK, I'll call it a tie in the short zones, just to be kind. Jones has all the arm you need to win games in the NFL and I chuckle when I hear the oft-repeated but false claims that he's "average" or a "product of the system".

Herbie played some clips of Brady for Jones to comment on and it wasn't a coincidence. Mac acknowledged that he didn't feel comfortable comparing himself to the best player of all time, but he didn't stutter when he said it. He knew all about Brady's back story and his skill set, i.e., commanding the pocket and it was pretty plain to see that there are some definite parallels to their games and both he and Herbie knew it. He wasn't fazed by competition at Alabama, by Nick Saban screaming at him and I don't think he'd be overwhelmed by getting a job here. And all that entails. If it happens, and I doubt it will, then I'll be one hundred per cent sure it was the right move.

It's a pity that it won't happen, but I'm keeping a candle lit that we get lucky and other teams balk at the chance to take him because he doesn't fit enough of the accepted archetypes of modern draft "science". Teams cannot measure what goes on between a QBs ears well enough to give it the weight that it deserves, so will settle instead for what a tape measure and stopwatch can tell them. If we can get to him then we will take him.
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I'm with you on Mac Jones. I'm not so sure it won't happen. There's been so much bad information out there from the media that fans have no clue what's really going on. The "consensus" of the draft posted above proves that. Mac Jones' draft position ranges from a high of 9th with Tankathon to a low of 65 by The Draft Network. The NFL has him going 35th. Those numbers are bewildering to fans. I'd love to know what Blesto says, tbh.
Here's the link again. /\ The above site gives avg draft position for all rounds in the draft from 10 well known sites.

Here's the schedule for Herbstreit's reports - Tomorrow night at 8 on espn2 --> QB Class of 2021
Emmy Award-Winning Analyst Kirk Herbstreit Headlines New ESPN Series on Top NFL Draft Quarterback Prospects - ESPN Press Room U.S.
 
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Everyone forgets that TFB was 4th on the depth chart his rookie year, behind Michael Bishop and a couple of other forgettable.
If we get Mac or even Trey in the draft, they will both benefit from having a learning year.
Wash my mouth out with soap, I'm not comparing either to Brady.
 
Hawg73 said:
I watched a feature called QB21 with Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones last night and it's similar (not as good, tho) to Gruden's QB camp. I've given up any hope of landing Mac, because I feel like the secret is out and remain unconcerned with the herd's criticism over his game. I maintain that he is the closest thing to Brady I've seen in the last 20 years and would be THE perfect fit in Foxboro.

I've already stated my case on him several times, so will attempt to not beat it to death, but the show (on ESPN) dug into his back story and featured a film session that illustrated who the guy is. He understood every aspect of what was happening in each case presented and broke it down with ease. He's a natural.

Lately, I keep seeing references to big armed, perfectly put-together guys with all the right numbers who were Draft Day Darlings but flamed out in the NFL because they couldn't figure out how to avoid trouble long enough to hold that job and gain vital experience. They forced their teams to move on from them. This is where Jones stands out, I believe. He can figure out the vectors/patterns and deliver the ball to one of his guys and not the guys in the other jerseys. Folks forget that Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady in the early years here, but managed games beautifully almost from the jump and moved the sticks behind a scheme that limited his exposure to areas where he needed time to work things out. The TDs followed and over time he improved his arm strength and accuracy, along with everything else and became the GOAT. I will also dare to chum the local waters by suggesting that Mac throws the ball quite a bit better than Tom did coming into the NFL at all 3 levels. OK, I'll call it a tie in the short zones, just to be kind. Jones has all the arm you need to win games in the NFL and I chuckle when I hear the oft-repeated but false claims that he's "average" or a "product of the system".

Herbie played some clips of Brady for Jones to comment on and it wasn't a coincidence. Mac acknowledged that he didn't feel comfortable comparing himself to the best player of all time, but he didn't stutter when he said it. He knew all about Brady's back story and his skill set, i.e., commanding the pocket and it was pretty plain to see that there are some definite parallels to their games and both he and Herbie knew it. He wasn't fazed by competition at Alabama, by Nick Saban screaming at him and I don't think he'd be overwhelmed by getting a job here. And all that entails. If it happens, and I doubt it will, then I'll be one hundred per cent sure it was the right move.

It's a pity that it won't happen, but I'm keeping a candle lit that we get lucky and other teams balk at the chance to take him because he doesn't fit enough of the accepted archetypes of modern draft "science". Teams cannot measure what goes on between a QBs ears well enough to give it the weight that it deserves, so will settle instead for what a tape measure and stopwatch can tell them. If we can get to him then we will take him.
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That's most likely the reason why the 49ers over traded for that spot...
 
Here's what I think I know:
If we trade up, we won't do it until that pick is actually on the clock, so we know the target will be there. If there's a reason to break that rule, please let me know. Otherwise I'll assume it's hard and fast. I've certainly never seen Belichick break it.
 
So here is the top 20 of BleacherReports big board, if we stay put we will have at least 6 of them to choose from....are there 6 we wouldn't want?

LINK

1. Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson (9.5)
2. Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State (9.2)
3. Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida (9.1)
4. Penei Sewell, OT, Oregon (9.0)
5. DeVonta Smith, WR, Alabama (8.9)
6. Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State (8.75)
7. Zach Wilson, QB, BYU (8.7)
8. Landon Dickerson, IOL, Alabama (8.7)
9. Rashod Bateman, WR, Minnesota (8.65)
10. Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU (8.6)
11. Daviyon Nixon, DL, Iowa (8.51)
12. Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma State (8.5)
13. Alijah Vera-Tucker, IOL, USC (8.5)
14. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame (8.5)
15. Rashawn Slater, OT, Northwestern (8.4)
16. Patrick Surtain II, CB, Alabama (8.4)
17. Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama (8.4)
18. Christian Darrisaw, OT, Virginia Tech (8.3)
19. Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State (8.3)
20. Trevon Moehrig, S, TCU (8.3)
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FYI -- Jones is down at 44...
 
chevss454 said:
This is why I wouldn't draft Devonta Smith very high and why players like Tutu Atwell aren't on my radar at all.
Smith weighed in at 166 lbs.


View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1384862237781860353
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I know, right? He's got those pencilesque getaway sticks and both his stopwatch time and the eyeball test suggest that he really isn't all that fast until you see him pulling away from everybody else. Jerry Rice taught me that you can't depend on a 40 time as the only measure of speed or he wouldn't have been the GOAT of receivers.

So......why did Smith absolutely dominate? How does he get so damn wide open? Stylistically, he's more of a gazelle than a waterbug. His strides are so long that he just eats up turf and DBs.

I'd be afraid to take him and afraid to skip over him. If I had to guess either way I'd go with rolling the dice because he's a unique talent that nobody is going to want to try to figure out how to cover. He's not going to run every route, but the ones he can run could be tremendously valuable and he appears to be able to run them all day long.

Some skinny guys get busted in half and some have mastered the art of slipping hits and/or are just wiry strong. Like Lamar Jackson when he came into the league. I'm guessing Devonta is the latter type and is going to be outstanding, but........damn--- he's a risky guy to pull the trigger on. Still, a ripped body hasn't helped N'Keal Harry stay healthy so at some point you have to roll the dice if you are planning on drafting a WR high.

BTW, did you see the time Simi Fehoko put up at Stanford's pro day? He weighs 230 and ran a 4.37. Metcalf stuff. I'd love to see him in Foxboro. Put him on special teams until he figures it out.
 
headcase said:
So here is the top 20 of BleacherReports big board, if we stay put we will have at least 6 of them to choose from....are there 6 we wouldn't want?



FYI -- Jones is down at 44...
Click to expand...
BB would trade back for a later 1st & also a high 2nd --> mack jones
And take the best CB, OT or LB with the later 1st he picked up.
 
chevss454 said:
This is why I wouldn't draft Devonta Smith very high and why players like Tutu Atwell aren't on my radar at all.
Smith weighed in at 166 lbs.


View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1384862237781860353
Click to expand...

Six of those guys are under 5'10" and most never put up numbers like Smith.

Pinkston - never had a 1000 yard season while playing in C-USA.
McDonald - Hobbit at 5'8"
Brown - 5'9" Hobbit. Run heavy Ravens offense and has put up 1353 yds and 15 TDs in his first two seasons.
Parrish - Never put up great numbers at Miami. No surprise he didn't do anything in the league.
Nelson - same as Pinkston. Zero 1000 yard seasons in C-USA.
Holliday - Hobbit sized kick returner
Banks - Good junior year, major drop off his senior year. 5'7". Another Hobbit.
Saunders - 5'9" Hobbit. 3rd leading WR on OU his junior year. Couldn't replace Stills' production when he was their #1 his senior year.
Reese - 2nd or 3rd fiddle his entire time at Baylor
Jackson - Another Hobbit. Deion Branch showed who was the better WR in Jackson's senior year.

Smith - In just the past two seasons he had 3112 yds and 37 TDs. He's also 6'1", so not a Hobbit. Best games last year came against Bama's toughest matchups. We'll see how it goes, but I think his profile is quite a bit better than everyone on that list.
 
Hawg73 said:
I know, right? He's got those pencilesque getaway sticks and both his stopwatch time and the eyeball test suggest that he really isn't all that fast until you see him pulling away from everybody else. Jerry Rice taught me that you can't depend on a 40 time as the only measure of speed or he wouldn't have been the GOAT of receivers.

So......why did Smith absolutely dominate? How does he get so damn wide open? Stylistically, he's more of a gazelle than a waterbug. His strides are so long that he just eats up turf and DBs.

I'd be afraid to take him and afraid to skip over him. If I had to guess either way I'd go with rolling the dice because he's a unique talent that nobody is going to want to try to figure out how to cover. He's not going to run every route, but the ones he can run could be tremendously valuable and he appears to be able to run them all day long.

Some skinny guys get busted in half and some have mastered the art of slipping hits and/or are just wiry strong. Like Lamar Jackson when he came into the league. I'm guessing Devonta is the latter type and is going to be outstanding, but........damn--- he's a risky guy to pull the trigger on. Still, a ripped body hasn't helped N'Keal Harry stay healthy so at some point you have to roll the dice if you are planning on drafting a WR high.

BTW, did you see the time Simi Fehoko put up at Stanford's pro day? He weighs 230 and ran a 4.37. Metcalf stuff. I'd love to see him in Foxboro. Put him on special teams until he figures it out.
Click to expand...

Yes I like Fehoko quite a bit. Needs polish but he'd be a beast after a year of learning. He'd be a matchup nightmare.
 
Regarding Devonta Smith doing so well...
Waddle got hurt leaving the heavy lifting to Smith who got the bulk of the work.
Waddle has always been the best receiver of Ruggs, Jeudy and Smith. Everyone in the SEC knew it.
COVID took away a lot of players so Smith was productive against a lightened load of competitors.
Bama stopped RPO's when Tua left and went to straight drop back passing for Mac Jones and passed a lot.
If Waddle didn't get hurt the thinking is that he'd have won the Heisman.
 
chevss454 said:
I don't get why the Packers don't give Rodgers an extension unless they don't want to, of course. That has to be the only reason since it should have been done by now. Rodgers already said no to a restructure and I don't blame him. Forget Love; go for Rodgers.
Pat Kirwan said on SiriusXM yesterday point blank that it looks more and more like Rodgers will be with another team by the beginning of the 2022 season unless the Packers FO comes to their senses. We'll see. I'd love the guy for the Pats. People forget that his beef was with McCarthy and, imo, that was bc he was always smarter than McCarthy at running the offense.
BB/Josh would have no such problem with Rodgers. Jmho.

With Rodgers this Pats team is suddenly a legit SB contender.
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My take is the Packers were done with Rodgers after he tanked the last season with McCarthy as HC. They hired LaFleur and the next draft, they drafted the QB they want to run LaFleur's system which is a pretty dynamite system. They don't want to pay Rodgers another extension and I don't blame them. He has become surly and a whiner. It is clear there has been a huge riff going back to the last season with McCarthy. I also think Rodgers wants to have a chance to do what Brady just did and go to a team that will allow him to pick some of the players. The only issue is Rodgers is not a FA like Brady so he is going to get traded. He does not have a "no trade" clause so the Packers could send him to the Jets if they wanted like they did to Favre back in the day. Should be a very interesting 15 months.
 
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