The 2021 Patriots' Preseason Camp

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Mazz22 said:
At times, it is impossible not to bring it up because look at our putrid QB room heading into 2021. That is what Reiss was pointing out. I mean what are we going to do if Newton does go down in week one and Jones is not ready? Do you really believe Bill has any confidence in Stidham given he would not play him last year? Do you ever want to see Hoyer take a meaningful snap for this team? I don't. That is what I am getting at. But yeah, I can lay off for sure.
Click to expand...
What will Tampa do if Brady goes down in week one
 
Mazz22 said:
I know. You are great poster on here and we see eye to eye on most of this stuff. I am more just stating the reasons why the base is divided. It is not just because Brady is no longer here. There is a confluence of events over the last several years that not only led to Brady's departure but also the putrid state of the roster and Cam Newton as our QB for the second season in a row.
Click to expand...

You are stating reasons why you think the fan base is divided. I think that while there are some Brady holdouts there are very few Brady diehards that think it's
somebody else's fault, say, Belichick, that he didn't have a storybook ending here in Foxboro. I know a lot of Patriots fans and I don't know a single one --
outside of this website-- that takes that view. So, how do we define "divided"? I personally think there has to be a significant percentage of a fanbase, approaching
50%, to make any sort of claim that this is actually a real thing. To my lying eyes, it's tiny pockets of radicals who enjoy griping about why the world isn't more perfect
and more black and white.

The pic below is of a guy named Teruo Nakamura. He fought for the Empire of Japan and stuck it out all by his lonesome for quite a while, showing dedication
if not exactly solid sense in the process.

Many people have heard of him, but for those that haven't -- Japan surrendered back in 1945 but Nakamura didn't surrender until 1974.

So, does that mean the Japanese people were divided for 30 years or was there just one nutbag living in little hut way out in Indonesia?

Did WWII end in 1945 or was it technically still going on until 1974?

Whatever happened way out there all those years ago, Brady ain't here anymore and I don't spent a whole lot of time worrying about what happened or
who is to blame. I hope he is happy in Tampa and I look forward to building a new dynasty with the guys we have here right now.

Anyhow, call me Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, but in a couple of short months there are going to be a lot of Brady fans giving up the ghost and
surrendering.

All due respect for your feelings, but don't be the last one. Teruo didn't think it was worth it.

teruo.jpg
 
Mazz22 said:
You keep posting the same thing as if it is a simplistic reason why fans are upset at Bill and why Tampa games are pulling stronger ratings than Pats games in NE. You think it is just the "three" posters here but do not see there is a much larger divide beyond this Bill centric board. The TV ratings not only showed it last year but it is also no small surprise that the biggest ticket in town this year for all of Boston is when Brady comes to town.

No one is whining about "a down season" or feel scorned because Brady is no longer here. That's just a straw man to pretend critical fans do not see the larger picture of what has happened the last several years. I guess anything to take the focus off the fact that in a three year span, Bill Belichick made one of the most questionable decisions in Super Bowl history which in hindsight probably cost the team the only 3-peat ever, caused the greatest tight end ever to retire rather than play for him, and failed to keep the greatest quarterback of all-time satisfied, choosing instead to double down and triple down on The Patriot Way and "next man up" which has Cam "awful" Newton as our starter for the second year in a row with a pile of garbage behind him.

And when fans ask for accountability, or at the very least, recognition that Bill has screwed up royally, they're just marginalized and their "true Patriots fandom" is called into question and they must be Brady super fans because the all powerful Bill can do no wrong when he has been royally screwing up the team for years which led to us having to spend the most money in Pats history to try to rebuild through FA what Bill messed up through years of bad drafting and not extending solid talent from the 2010s.

This is why this divide exists right now and probably will as long as Bill remains in charge and Brady remains in Tampa.
Click to expand...

Proof of Tampa Bay ratings bring greater than Patriots in NE?
I remember that they were high, particularly (and unsurprisingly) for the playoffs, but regular season?
Link please?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Hawg73 said:
You are stating reasons why you think the fan base is divided. I think that while there are some Brady holdouts there are very few Brady diehards that think it's
somebody else's fault, say, Belichick, that he didn't have a storybook ending here in Foxboro. I know a lot of Patriots fans and I don't know a single one --
outside of this website-- that takes that view. So, how do we define "divided"? I personally think there has to be a significant percentage of a fanbase, approaching 50%, to make any sort of claim that this is actually a real thing. To my lying eyes, it's tiny pockets of radicals who enjoy griping about why the world isn't more perfect and more black and white.
Click to expand...
This forum has so few people posting on it that it is not at all an adequate representation of the fanbase. Go over to PatsFans and you will see the difference and the divide. I can't put a percentage on it so I can't say 50% but it is a significant number.

Brady not finishing his career is 100% on Bill, he is the GM and makes all the decisions. So he is the one getting ALL the blame and rightfully so. You don't let the greatest player in NFL history walk especially with no one to replace him. That is the rub here for me. I could understand letting him go IF we had someone, anyone to take the spot but we had zippo.

Bill grabbed Cam off the trash heap for a million bucks and he got exactly what he paid for - a losing season and the worst offensive output since 2000. That is what is causing the divide. To not have Brady finish here especially since he was not asking for the moon ($25 mil a year) AND not have a succession plan is unforgiveable. And then on top, we all got to watch Brady have one of his finest seasons (with Gronk) of his career and win another ring in year one. Fans would have much rathered see Brady finish things here while Bill drafted his replacement but Bill did neither. He did not extend Brady nor draft anyone besides Danny Etling and Stidham the last 3 years. He was too cheap to go get Jimmy this year or trade for Stafford or sign Fitzpatrick. ALL would have been an upgrade over Newton.

So here we are in year 2 with Brady as the favorite to win the Super Bowl again with a GM that resigned all of his SB starters while taking into consideration his personnel wishes while Arians is letting him run his own practices. Why on earth Bill could not have done this for Brady the last 5-6 years is inexcusable. His treatment of Brady over the last few seasons was a travesty. He surrounded Brady with diminishing talent and limited returns which he would then use against Brady in terms of contractual incentives. He started treating him like a diminishing QB 3 years ago after Brady won league MVP at age 40.

As I said in my previous post, the most sought after ticket in Boston is the Brady game in week 4 with a resell value of a SB ticket. I wonder why. And you think there is no significant divide.
 
Mazz22 said:
This forum has so few people posting on it that it is not at all an adequate representation of the fanbase. Go over to PatsFans and you will see the difference and the divide. I can't put a percentage on it so I can't say 50% but it is a significant number.

Brady not finishing his career is 100% on Bill, he is the GM and makes all the decisions. So he is the one getting ALL the blame and rightfully so. You don't let the greatest player in NFL history walk especially with no one to replace him. That is the rub here for me. I could understand letting him go IF we had someone, anyone to take the spot but we had zippo.

Bill grabbed Cam off the trash heap for a million bucks and he got exactly what he paid for - a losing season and the worst offensive output since 2000. That is what is causing the divide. To not have Brady finish here especially since he was not asking for the moon ($25 mil a year) AND not have a succession plan is unforgiveable. And the on top, we all got to watch Brady have one of his finest seasons of his career and win another ring in year one. Fans would have much rathered see Brady finish things here while Bill drafted his replacement but Bill did neither. He did not extend Brady nor draft anyone besides Danny Etling and Stidham the last 3 years. He was too cheap to go get Jimmy this year or trade for Stafford or sign Fitzpatrick. ALL would have been an upgrade over Newton.

So here we are in year 2 with Brady as the favorite to win the Super Bowl again with a GM that resigned all of his SB starters while taking into consideration his personnel wishes while Arians is letting him run his own practices. Why on earth Bill could not have done this for Brady the last 5-6 years is inexcusable. His treatment of Brady over the last few seasons was a travesty. He surrounded Brady with diminishing talent and limited returns which he would then use against Brady in terms of contractual incentives. He started treating him like a diminishing QB 3 years ago after Brady won league MVP at age 40.

As I said in my previous post, the most sought after ticket in Boston is the Brady game in week 4 with a resell value of a SB ticket. I wonder why. And you think there is no significant divide.
Click to expand...

The goddamn divide has NOTHING to do with the GOAT returning.
The prices are high because of what Brady did here,
Not because of some fucking divide.

And PatsFan is clearly 90% BB and pro-Patriots , just like this place.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Mazz22 said:
You keep posting the same thing as if it is a simplistic reason why fans are upset at Bill and why Tampa games are pulling stronger ratings than Pats games in NE. You think it is just the "three" posters here but do not see there is a much larger divide beyond this Bill centric board. The TV ratings not only showed it last year but it is also no small surprise that the biggest ticket in town this year for all of Boston is when Brady comes to town.

No one is whining about "a down season" or feel scorned because Brady is no longer here. That's just a straw man to pretend critical fans do not see the larger picture of what has happened the last several years. I guess anything to take the focus off the fact that in a three year span, Bill Belichick made one of the most questionable decisions in Super Bowl history which in hindsight probably cost the team the only 3-peat ever, caused the greatest tight end ever to retire rather than play for him, and failed to keep the greatest quarterback of all-time satisfied, choosing instead to double down and triple down on The Patriot Way and "next man up" which has Cam "awful" Newton as our starter for the second year in a row with a pile of garbage behind him.

And when fans ask for accountability, or at the very least, recognition that Bill has screwed up royally, they're just marginalized and their "true Patriots fandom" is called into question and they must be Brady super fans because the all powerful Bill can do no wrong when he has been royally screwing up the team for years which led to us having to spend the most money in Pats history to try to rebuild through FA what Bill messed up through years of bad drafting and not extending solid talent from the 2010s.

This is why this divide exists right now and probably will as long as Bill remains in charge and Brady remains in Tampa.
Click to expand...
There is no divide. THere are Patriot fans. Look at your sig. The Patriot Way was really the Brady way. There are a few people to whom the Patriots were Tom Brady. The philosophy that Belichick built and maintains is irrelevant. The Patriot was of do your job doesn't matter. Nothing matter except Brady.

Patriots fans celebrate Tom Brady because he was a Patriot. He was part of a philosophy That Belichick built and maintain.

Brady fans cannot accept any credit to anyone except Brady. It is important to trash BB to make certain that all credit goes to Brady.

The Belichick hate among you three is nauseating. BB is our HC. Jones is our QB of outr (the Patriots') future.

The Patriot was really the Brady way. This is a Patriots board. Why are you here then? Go find a Brady board.
 
Nope. I don't think there is a significant divide.

Oddly enough, I also don't think there is a real big number of fans that think Bill Belichick is a bumbling dipshit desperately trying to shore up his phony legacy. In fact,
among real professionals -- i.e., football lifers with genuine experience in the league, i.e. smart people, I'd be hard-pressed to name a single one that feels that way. I figure if the
above description of Bill had any merit then you'd find a couple or three here or there, but go ahead and try and name one.

As far as the Planet goes, there are a couple of people that seem to feel that way at present, but this stuff has been going on here for many years with a rotating
cast of characters. Brady attracts all kinds of strange attention. I once heard that there is an FBI file that suggests that it is estimated that there are approximately
10,000 women in the United States that genuinely believe they are married to Tom and only one of them is correct.

I don't want to claim this place is the ultimate data source for all things Patriots, but do I think most people around here are fair-minded, balanced and are
able to understand that you don't win 6 trophies in two decades because of one guy. Weirdly enough, I also believe that there are multiple reasons for his
skipping town and sometimes people just need a change of scenery. Storybook endings don't happen in this life. We get perfect moments, but life is
not perfect.

I never cared whether there were a couple of people who were unbalanced enough to view everything Brady as Godlike and I got accused of being
a heretic or hater any every time I suggested he screwed the pooch or acted like a douche --- something he very clearly did from time to time over his career
here. Fact.

I've also praised him thousands of times, but that doesn't count to those that choose to see Tommy though their own special lens. With the Tommites it's
all or nothing. Also fact.

I don't think anybody, anywhere is perfect and I still have a hard time understanding those that think Brady is a magical creature and are fundamentally
incapable of typing even the slightest negative regarding him or successfully ignoring the same from others, no matter how mundane or minor (of
truthful) those comments happen to be.

Sometimes I wish I studied psychology so I could put a label on this rare-but-persistent condition. I bet it'd be pretty hard to spell.

.......and that kiddies is how billions of electrons died without anybody ever changing their minds or getting declared debate champion.
 
How ironic a post about people idolizing Brady on a board that has deified Bill. As they say, people usual despise the most in others what they possess themselves.

And with that, let's get back to the preseason.
For all my ranting on Stidham, he was impressive when Cam went down last week. Jones was not unfortunately but that is to be expected at this point. Hopefully in minicamp this week Jones takes a step forward.
 
Reading the last 18 hours of posts in this thread make me feel so very fortunate not to have been on here for the last 18 hours.

Mazz, you said you would try to do better but here you are hijacking a Patriots preseason thread for nothing more than to push your agenda. That's not doing better.
 
chevss454 said:
Reading the last 18 hours of posts in this thread make me feel so very fortunate not to have been on here for the last 18 hours.

Mazz, you said you would try to do better but here you are hijacking a Patriots preseason thread for nothing more than to push your agenda. That's not doing better.
Click to expand...
You are right. Need to do better.
 
The Patriots' voluntary offseason program continues this week, with four scheduled organized team activities -- Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday.
Media members are scheduled to be in attendance at Thursday's OTA.
Mandatory minicamp is scheduled for June 14-16.
 
Analytics/Data Science absolutely has a place in picking personnel.
Compare Jones to next year's group of QBs, Rattler, Slovis, Howell et al.
P5 for 2020 only but this is an important graph.

E3P4KLwXMAkGNRs
 
Mazz22 said:
This forum has so few people posting on it that it is not at all an adequate representation of the fanbase. Go over to PatsFans and you will see the difference and the divide. I can't put a percentage on it so I can't say 50% but it is a significant number.

Brady not finishing his career is 100% on Bill, he is the GM and makes all the decisions. So he is the one getting ALL the blame and rightfully so. You don't let the greatest player in NFL history walk especially with no one to replace him. That is the rub here for me. I could understand letting him go IF we had someone, anyone to take the spot but we had zippo.

Bill grabbed Cam off the trash heap for a million bucks and he got exactly what he paid for - a losing season and the worst offensive output since 2000. That is what is causing the divide. To not have Brady finish here especially since he was not asking for the moon ($25 mil a year) AND not have a succession plan is unforgiveable. And then on top, we all got to watch Brady have one of his finest seasons (with Gronk) of his career and win another ring in year one. Fans would have much rathered see Brady finish things here while Bill drafted his replacement but Bill did neither. He did not extend Brady nor draft anyone besides Danny Etling and Stidham the last 3 years. He was too cheap to go get Jimmy this year or trade for Stafford or sign Fitzpatrick. ALL would have been an upgrade over Newton.

So here we are in year 2 with Brady as the favorite to win the Super Bowl again with a GM that resigned all of his SB starters while taking into consideration his personnel wishes while Arians is letting him run his own practices. Why on earth Bill could not have done this for Brady the last 5-6 years is inexcusable. His treatment of Brady over the last few seasons was a travesty. He surrounded Brady with diminishing talent and limited returns which he would then use against Brady in terms of contractual incentives. He started treating him like a diminishing QB 3 years ago after Brady won league MVP at age 40.

As I said in my previous post, the most sought after ticket in Boston is the Brady game in week 4 with a resell value of a SB ticket. I wonder why. And you think there is no significant divide.
Click to expand...


I thought you said earlier you don't feel scorned because Brady left?!!! :LOL:

I'm completely correct in what I said earlier, you are so angry that Bill had the temerity to let St. Thomas walk, you have lost all sense of objectivity.
 
chevss454 said:
Analytics/Data Science absolutely has a place in picking personnel.
Compare Jones to next year's group of QBs, Rattler, Slovis, Howell et al.
P5 for 2020 only but this is an important graph.

E3P4KLwXMAkGNRs
Click to expand...
Interesting chart not that I know what either ordinate means.
So Mac Jones should have been the number one pick in the draft?
Are you supposed to be most interested in the players along the top, say Matt Corral, if his team mates were as good as the Alabama players he would slide into the Mac Jones position? And visa versa, Jones would slide back to the left?
 
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