The 53, Pre-season, Take-1

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MaineMan

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I think it was Mankins who said that, generally speaking, O-linemen would much rather run-block than pass-pro. It had something to do with being the hitter rather than the hittee. Anyway, against the Saints, although it seemed to me at times like the Pats were running the ball much more than usual, the pass/run ratio was actually 41/28, excluding Mallett's three kneeldowns (BTW, Mallett had nearly half of the 41 pass attempts). Still, the run-blocking seemed to get more competent as the game progressed (props to Ridley for accomplishing what he did when things seemed at their shakiest early on).

Part of that success was, of course, the gradual descent into the depths of the Saints defensive roster, but I also thought the OL established some cohesion and rhythm, especially in the 2nd half. Vereen got into a rhythm against the Saints' scrubs, too, and I think that was the intent of using him against the scrubs rather than against the Saints #1s. Of the four RBs of primary concern, Vereen almost certainly has had the fewest game/practice reps over the past two years and it was probably good to give him the confidence boost of a relatively easy path (Kettani has been nearly out of football for three years, too). Conversely, Bolden was deliberately deployed against the #1s to see how he held up, I think. Kinda meh, actually; he didn't seem to have nearly as much power as Ridley through first contact and did seem to prefer breaking outside.

Anyway, it was good that run-blocking became halfway decent, because pass-pro seemed halfway to abysmal. Of course, a lot of that can be chalked up to inexperience. Seems obvious, but still kinda shocking to me when I diagrammed it out.

With Light (11 years NFL experience) retired, and Vollmer (3 yrs), Mankins (7) and Waters (12) currently unavailable, the OL is very young, especially at the ends:


SOLDER(1) --- CONNOLLY(7) --- KOPPEN(8) --- THOMAS(4) --- CANNON(1)
------------- Wendell(4) ---- Wendell(4) -- Wendell(4) ------------
------------- McDonald(2) --- McDonald(2) - McDonald (2) ----------

Behind the above, there's:
OT - Kopa (2, all PS), 6056/312 (currently injured)
OT - Hix (0, IR his rookie year), 6067/319 (currently injured)
OT? - Weems (rk), 6051/318 (currently injured)
OT? - Waldron (rk), 6052/305
OG - Warren (rk), 6027/324
OG? - Dennis (rk), 6031/315
T/G Zusevics (rk, 6047/303) seems destined for redshirt IR with his recently torn pec.

It's somewhat interesting that the Pats have continued to backfill using exclusively rookie UDFAs rather than going after any available veterans. Possibly this is because the Pats know they'll be getting at least Vollmer, if not also Mankins AND/OR Waters back in time for Week-1 and, meanwhile, they're giving as many TC reps as possible to the young developmental prospects who need them more. This might also apply WRT any outside veterans they could sign at the end of camp (ala Waters last season). OTOH, considering the general quality of the current selection, perhaps they really ARE stuck if Vollmer, Mankins and Waters can't go for the start of the regular season.

Here's Adam Caplan's listing of current FA Tackles, for example:

Kareem McKenzie (RT)
Chad Clifton (LT)
Tony Pashos (RT)
Stacy Andrews (RT/G)
Brandon Keith (RT)
Mark LeVoir (RT)
Kirk Chambers (LT/RT)

The name that stands out (though not by much) is LeVoir. He seemed okay as a temporary emergency fill-in during his Pats tenure and he at least knows the line calls. Okay, he at least knows where the locker room is.

All of this has a potentially significant impact on roster numbers, of course. There are only seven OL in camp with ANY prior NFL experience. Plus Vollmer, Mankins and Waters - or their temporary replacements from among the inexperienced guys or last minute veteran FA signings - that makes at least 10 roster spots devoted to OL.
 
Okay, so I'm pegging the OL at 10 players to start the season without really knowing all of who's going to be there. Leaving out the 3 kicking unit guys and Slater (ST Captain) and 3 QBs (almost a lock), this leaves 36 roster spots.

The following are (IMHO) the likely "locks" - at least probable 1st-teamers & regularly-working subs/role-players. Asterisks (*) denote PS-eligible players. Pound signs (#) denote "accomplished" ST players who might "fill out" the bottom of a unit.

OFFENSE:

(4) RUNNING BACKS: Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead.
+++++ Bolden* looked just "okay" against the Saints. Though it's highly doubtful he makes it through waivers now, I feel like he still needs to show a tiny bit more in upcoming games to be a lock over a potential Fullback inclusion, though the backfield could still end up being 4 RBs + 1 FB/special-teamer.

(3) TIGHT-ENDS: Gronk, Hernandez, Shiancoe/Fells (assuming one or the other actually gets healthy).
+++++ Even if neither Shiancoe or Fells can go for Week-1, I'm not sure they keep Urban* (though he made a nice catch in the opener) and Silvestro apparently can't block or catch. So, maybe they'd sign yet another veteran FA for the first six weeks. (I'm assuming Ballard at least to Reserve/PUP if not directly to IR).

(5) RECEIVERS: Lloyd, Welker, Gaffney, Edelman (#PR), PLUS one of Branch/Stallworth.
+++++ Branch has been held out of practice for undisclosed reasons and, frankly, Stallworth wasn't impressive (IMO) in the opener against the Saints - still a toss-up. Ebert* (seeming oddly "calm" to me somehow) wasn't much worse than Stallworth in the game, though Britt* and Holley# were at least marginally worse. Ebert* still has a huge hill to climb in less than three weeks to make enough of an impact to stick over both Branch and Stallworth (or Edelman, for that matter), though there's almost no chance he clears waivers since there are just too many WR-needy teams out there who'd easily take the chance.


DEFENSE:

(5) DL CORE: Wilfork, Love, Fanene, Deaderick, and ....
+++++ This unit probably needs one more body, IMO - basically someone younger than Warren who can consistently outplay him. When Pryor (6002/310) comes off PUP, maybe it's him, but maybe not. Other candidates:
- Brace (6030/328) - got some attention in camp, but now injured. Again.
- Harrison (6026/316) - Seemed quietly competent in the opener; showed some veteran awareness at times (2nd half).
- Forston* (6012/301) - Also made a couple good effort plays in the 2nd half against the Saints.
- Bulman (6034/281) - Seems strictly a camp body until he proves otherwise.

(5) ENDS/EDGE-RUSH: Jones*, Bequette*, Ninko (also OLB), PLUS TWO of Cunningham/Scott/Francis*
+++++ Cunningham and Scott have experience playing standing up at OLB as well as down at the LoS, versatility that is pretty significant in a shape-shifting Front 7. Cunningham looked solid against the run in the opener and worked hard for pressure. Scott looked better in the 2nd half than his described practices of late (in which he was characterized as being "hesitant"). Without much scheming in the game, Scott was able to freewheel it and didn't look hesitant at all, so I'm wondering if he's having trouble with scheme assignments in practice. In the 2nd half, Francis* didn't look at all like what I expected from his practice hype, but it also seemed like a lot of the Saints plays were going to the other side, away from him, so maybe it was partly an opportunity issue. Still, I'm guessing that he has only a slim chance to clear waivers.

(4) LINEBACKERS: Spikes (ILB), Mayo (ILB/OLB), *Hightower (ILB/OLB)
+++++ Since Ninko, Cunningham and Scott can also cover OLB, this unit could use maybe one more ST/reserve (or, maybe not). Fletcher would have been first in line, but it seems somewhat open now, with Carpenter perhaps having an edge. OTOH, Tarpinian was the Pats leading tackler in the opener (6 TT, 2 solo), so .....

(4) SECONDARY, PERIMETER/STAR: McCourty, Dowling, Arrington
+++++ Dennard* and Moore* are the top young hopefuls, but Dennard is hurt and Moore (IMO) kinda sucked in the opener, which maybe leaves the door open for veteran Allen or even Malcolm Williams*#, both of whom appear capable of playing at least some FS (Dennard also seems stocky enough to me to play some SS). Dennard probably doesn't clear waivers, but he needs to get healthy very soon and contribute notably and consistently for the rest of TC to make the squad, I think. Some chance he gets redshirted to IR if his injury lingers, I guess.

(4) SECONDARY, SAFETY: Chung, Gregory, Wilson*
+++++ This seems a bit open. I'm thinking that the final DB count ends up at 9 and I have only 6 "locks". The final three DB reserves probably need to be excellent special teamers and/or guys who could play either corner or safety or otherwise be effective in the "star" or "money" spots. Ihedigbo fits the bill wrt ST and is okay against the run, but his coverage was barely mediocre last season (possibly injury-related). The thing is, who else on the current roster might actually be significantly better than Digs? Still, it's a pretty tough choice for me.
 
So, out of my "36", I have (wiggled and hedged to the max)
12 for offense (not including 10 OL) and
19 for defense
for a total of 31.
The final five will come from the following list (my personal strongest candidates in bold):

Roster end reserves/special teamers:

Larsen# (FB/LB) - versatile, veteran with McD (currently injured)
Kettani* (FB/RB) - improved a bit lead-blocking in the opener, showed he can catch and fight for yards
Silvestro*# (TE/DE) - pretty poor blocker in the opener and couldn't catch a cold

Carpenter# (LB) - showed up well in the opener and in practice; I just don't trust him to follow through quite as well in the regular season. Probably still better than White/Koutouvides at LB, though.
Tarpinian*# (LB) - at 6021/238 he's still almost athletic enough to play safety; was in on a lot of tackles in the opener.
Rivera*# (LB, 6021/252) - originally UDFA 2009 (Bears), camp body since, but looked surprisingly decent in the opener (against the Saints scrubs).
White# (LB) - 9-year vet, excellent STer, only a body at LB
Koutouvides# (LB) - 9-year vet, excellent STer, only a body at LB
Lavarias*# (LB) - as an LB, if he focuses on ST excellence, he could be a young Tracy White in the making (heh)

Dennard* (CB) - currently injured, hammy (discussed above)
Moore*# (CB) - currently sucking (discussed above)
Ihedigbo# (SAF) - (discussed above)
Allen (FS/"star") - 11-yr vet, among the top slot CBs in 2011 (F.O.), still tackles well, working at FS
Williams*# (CB/SAF) - PS 2011, highly athletic, build kinda like Dennard, but hasn't shown much yet
Cole# (CB) - apparently, he really can't cover
Barrett# (SAF) - 6016/225, athletic but always hurt and seems lost on the field this year
Brown# (SAF) - core STer but a liability on defense
Ebner*# (SAF) - extreme longshot, still; Rexy would probably claim him out of spite
Ventrone*# (CB) - hilarious guy according to BB; nice hair, too - PS/camp body
Martin# (SAF) - plays like a camp body

Larsen would be at the top of my list (Fletcher was, too, until the injury). For the last couple guys, perhaps it's BPA and/or whichever unit seems most likely to need extra reserves.


CUTDOWN to 75: AUG 27

FINAL CUTDOWN: SEP 4
 
As you, I have more questions after the Saints game with regards to the 53 than I had prior to it. Thankfully, there's still time for the players who 'want it' to show themselves.

Reiss speculates today that Waters may not be coming back. That would be a blow. Vollmer is still walking stiffly with his back. I'm still concerned about this OL. As for the FAs, McKenzie is the name that sticks out to me. He played decently for the Giants last year at ROT and could allow Cannon to switch to OG and Connolly to C over Koppen. You detailed the current youth on the OL very well and should Waters not come back, surely BB will be sifting through the discards at cut down time for a serviceable O lineman otherwise TB and the Pats could be in for a very rough year. Kopa simply doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I'm still holding out hope that Waters returns; we need him and that's becoming more apparent by the day.
 
chevss454 said:
As you, I have more questions after the Saints game with regards to the 53 than I had prior to it. Thankfully, there's still time for the players who 'want it' to show themselves.

Reiss speculates today that Waters may not be coming back. That would be a blow. Vollmer is still walking stiffly with his back. I'm still concerned about this OL. As for the FAs, McKenzie is the name that sticks out to me. He played decently for the Giants last year at ROT and could allow Cannon to switch to OG and Connolly to C over Koppen. You detailed the current youth on the OL very well and should Waters not come back, surely BB will be sifting through the discards at cut down time for a serviceable O lineman otherwise TB and the Pats could be in for a very rough year. Kopa simply doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I'm still holding out hope that Waters returns; we need him and that's becoming more apparent by the day.
Click to expand...

To reiterate and expand, based on what I saw from the OL against the Saints, it's pass-pro that's weak. Run-blocking, while far from perfect, seemed much stronger. This may actually be a good sign, for a couple of reasons.

First, pass-pro is basically RE-active. It requires good reading, awareness, strength and technique, of course, but its success is also dependent on the effectiveness of the QB and his scheduled targets. Even excellent pass-pro can't make a silk purse out of a sow's-ear QB and mediocre receiving corps, whereas a good QB and receivers can succeed even with average pass-pro. Frankly, Brady has been fine in that sort of situation more than a couple times in his career.

Run-blocking, OTOH, is PRO-active. It's an actual "play" for O-linemen and involves understanding/executing often complex choreography with perfect timing and requires a different type of quickness and (youthful) athleticism in addition to the skills that pass-pro requires. Excellent run-blocking can make even an average RB look pretty good (see: the Broncos under Shanahan), whereas mediocre run-blocking can hinder all but the most exceptional RBs.

Second, many signs have pointed toward a greater emphasis on and integration of the running game in the Pats 2012 attack. In a "passing league" in which most defenses are geared up to thwart the aerial attack, often at the expense of stoutness versus the run, a renewed commitment to the ground game only makes basic sense. The Pats now have at least two quick, shifty, versatile young RBs to replace the one-trick, one-speed, straight-ahead BGE. It only makes basic sense to enlist a bunch of young, smart, relatively athletic OL to make the way for them. Add in a lead-blocking FB who can also run and catch (Hernandez/Larsen?) and another TE who can block and catch (Shiancoe/Fells?) and, suddenly, play-action and the RB-screen game become much more significant threats than they have been for the past few seasons - thus helping to keep the pass-rush and blitz off the OL.

Last season, I heard from more than one Chiefs fan that they'd sorely miss Waters' pass-pro, but that his run-blocking had already been on the decline for a couple years. He didn't really do anything last season to change that perception for me, but it worked great since the attack ended up being so extremely pass-oriented. If the 2012 attack deploys the run with more equal proportion, Waters may not be missed as much as folks think.

Part of the reason for the nearly-excessive emphasis on the passing attack, I think, was that run-blocking suffered significantly after Koppen went down, at least initially. And I think that was the primary reason he was re-signed - to provide solid run-blocking from the OC spot while allowing Connolly (who got better at it during last season) to shift back to RG. However, Koppen's pass-pro has been mediocre for awhile now and, if his run-blocking is also now declining, I wouldn't be surprised if he's cut at the end of camp.

Mankins has been a superior run-blocker (he certainly has the attitude for it) and should give the OL a huge boost in that department when he returns. He should also help protect Solder's relatively weak right side against the inside rush game that Will Smith ran on him (provided there's a stout pass-pro guy at OC) .

Vollmer has also been a very good run-blocker and may still be in spite of his back troubles since it seems to me that run-blocking may be less stressful on the back for a tall guy than squatting into a pass-pro stance. If Vollmer can't return or be effective, having Cannon out at RT could be an issue, though a TE and an FB could certainly help cover the weakness.

Anyway, run-blocking may be more of a "young man's game" and, while some of the available veteran FAs may be better at protecting Brady one-on-one, a very effective ground game may do just as much to keep him clean.
 
" If the 2012 attack deploys the run with more equal proportion, Waters may not be missed as much as folks think. "

Here's hoping.
 
MM, great post above. You mention how it is easier on the linemen to run block as compared to pass block because they can attack rather than react. We always hear about defenders getting tired after a long drive. One would think that the offense would be just as tired as the defense, but I guess not as much if they are doing more run blocking making the defense react instead of attack.
 
bmooney54 said:
MM, great post above. You mention how it is easier on the linemen to run block as compared to pass block because they can attack rather than react. We always hear about defenders getting tired after a long drive. One would think that the offense would be just as tired as the defense, but I guess not as much if they are doing more run blocking making the defense react instead of attack.
Click to expand...

Now that BB has DCs all geared up trying to stop Brady-to-Gronk/Hernandez/Welker/Lloyd through the air, it wouldn't surprise me at all for him a Josh to suddenly shift to a 50% running attack. And, as soon as a defense adjusts, Brady just burns them mercilessly.
 
Doug Kyed of NEPDraft has his version 2 of the final 53 after watching another week of camp and a game.

Since my last roster projection, the Patriots have played their first preseason game, lost a linebacker for the season and I attended another week of training camp.
So what does that mean? A lot of changes are in order. Once again, I’ve completely blown up my prediction and started all over again.
My roster projection and Sunday training camp notes after the jump.

QB: Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett
Mallett has looked shaky thus far in the preseason. He struggled against the Saints behind a depleted and young offensive line, and has been sailing passes all month at practice. It’s good to have Brian Hoyer around as a rock behind Tom Brady. He hasn’t flashed this preseason, but he’ll still be #2 on the depth chart.
RB: Stevan Ridley, Danny Woodhead, Brandon Bolden, Shane Vereen
We got a bit of a surprise on Thursday night when Bolden showed up against the Saints before Vereen. While Vereen did look quite a bit better, Bolden was still taking second team snaps above Vereen at practice, so it was no fluke.
Vereen will need to continue to impress if he hopes to pass Bolden. At this point, it would be fair to say he’s on the roster bubble. He made a nice leaping catch for a touchdown over Marquice Cole’s head Sunday at practice.
WR: Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater
It looks like Donte Stallworth is here to work, he was in for extra reps after practice, and he also appears to be getting a lot of time both at practice and in game. I think it would be smart to carry just five WRs since Hernandez can play the position, but I have a feeling the Pats will carry six.
TE: Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Alex Silvestro
In this scenario, I have neither Fells or Shiancoe getting healthy before the season starts. We don’t have any idea how serious either player’s injuries are, so I’ll play it safe and have neither make the team. Silvestro has looked surprisingly effective as a converted tight end, he can contribute on special teams and he has the added layer of versatility as a former defensive end.
Gronkowski was a surprise absentee from practice today. He was on the sidelines in street clothes.
OT: Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Nick McDonald
McDonald has been getting plenty of reps at tackle since Robert Gallery retired, and he was getting first team snaps Sunday at guard in a rotation with Dan Connolly and Donald Thomas in place of Brian Waters. With this scenario, I have Vollmer starting the season on PUP and they’ll need the extra tackle behind Solder and Cannon.
OG: Logan Mankins, Brian Waters, Donald Thomas, Jeremiah Warren
It was great to see Mankins back at practice Sunday, even though he only participated early in practice. I doubt we’ll see him in full contact practices soon, but his quick return is still amazing. Thinking that Vollmer starts the season on the PUP, the Pats will need to carry a 9th offensive lineman and Warren gets the nod. He seems to be getting more reps than the other young linemen, he’s healthy, and I know the Patriots liked him leading up to the draft.
Check out my piece on Mankins’ return at NESN.com.
OC: Ryan Wendell, Dan Connolly
The biggest glaring omission here is longtime Patriot Dan Koppen. Koppen was replaced after struggling early against the Saints and was replaced by Wendell, who immediately made the line look better. On Sunday, Wendell got all the first team snaps at center with Koppen playing with the young second team.
With Wendell, Connolly, McDonald and Warren all capable of playing center, it’s time for the least versatile interior lineman to go.
DT: Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Brandon Deaderick, Jonathan Fanene
The Patriots are going smaller along the defensive line this year with more traditional 7-techs playing the elephant position on both sides of the line. That means less defensive tackles on this team. Fanene is going to need to get back on the practice field to not get passed by Marcus Harrison and Marcus Forston. Both looked impressive on Thursday.
DE/OLB: Rob Ninkovich, Chandler Jones, Trevor Scott, Jermaine Cunningham, Jake Bequette, Justin Francis
I have the Patriots carrying six DEs, which may seem like a lot, but we could see guys like Jones, Bequette and Francis getting snaps inside. They all possess the strength and size necessary to play 3-tech in smaller defensive fronts.
Scott may be a player on the roster bubble, even though he looked impressive against the Saints. The fact that he was doing it against the Saints third stringers makes that feat slightly less impressive.
LB: Jerod Mayo, Brandon Spikes, Dont’a Hightower, Bobby Carpenter, Jeff Tarpinian, Tracy White
Dane Fletcher’s injury hurts, but he was likely going to be the team’s fifth linebacker anyway this season. That role gets filled by both Tarpinian and White, who can also contribute in place of Fletcher on special teams. Fletcher’s injury clearly weakens the linebacker depth, but that makes the Carpenter signing all the more necessary.
CB: Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard
I wrote a piece on who I think the Patriots fifth cornerback will be on NESN. Below is an excerpt.
The Patriots played nine cornerbacks altogether last season, which is why that backup roster spot is so important. The obvious choice would be 2012 seventh-round pick Alfonzo Dennard, but he still hasn’t returned to action since injuring his hamstring in practice July 27. When Dennard does return, he’ll be behind the curve, having to catch up both in coverage and special teams. If he struggles, Will Allen, Marquice Cole, Ross Ventrone, Malcolm Williams and Derrick Martin will battle for the fifth spot behind Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling and Sterling Moore.
​
Check out the whole article on NESN.com.
S: Patrick Chung, Steve Gregory, Tavon Wilson, James Ihedigbo
It was a tough decision for me between Ihedigbo and Will Allen. Ihedigbo not only has experience in the Patriots defense, but he’s also running with the first team special teams. Allen would have provided better coverage ability and versatility.
ST: Stephen Gostkowski, Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken
These guys aren’t going anywhere.
Sidenote: Mesko was lined up with the kickoff team on Sunday, not kicking, in coverage and Chandler Jones was laughing at him on the sideline. Mesko pointed at him and made the “throat slice” motion and Jones started cracking up.
Last three cuts: Dan Koppen, Gerard Warren, Deion Branch
Warren and Branch may not sign on with other teams at this point, and could be asked to come back to the Patriots if they were needed later in the season after injuries.
PUP List: Sebastian Vollmer, Daniel Fells, Myron Pryor, Jake Ballard, Markus Zusevics
We may not see this many guys on the PUP list, but I’m sure we’ll see at least a few of them. The PUP list immediately makes the Patriots depth better midway through the season.
Injured Reserve: Brad Herman, Jamey Richard
Practice Squad: Eric Kettani, Jeremy Ebert, Tyler Urban, Matt Kopa, Derek Dennis, Marcus Forston, Nate Ebner, Ross Ventrone
Click to expand...
http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/08/2012-patriots-roster-prediction-doug-kyed-3-0.html

Of note: No FB, Silvestro at TE, Jeremiah Warren and Justin Francis.

Ventrone wasn't on the squad week 17 which preserves his PS eligibility iirc.
 
chevss454 said:
Doug Kyed of NEPDraft has his version 2 of the final 53 after watching another week of camp and a game.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/08/2012-patriots-roster-prediction-doug-kyed-3-0.html

Of note: No FB, Silvestro at TE, Jeremiah Warren and Justin Francis.
Click to expand...

A few comments on that:
-I didn't see anything in Silvestro that would warrant a roster spot. Practice Squad? Sure. 53? No way.
-7 Interior OL? Even if McDonald will help out at Tackle for a few weeks, that's nuts. Keep one of the rookie Tackles until Vollmer and/or Zusevics return.
-Francis didn't impress me vs the Saints. Just looked akward running around in space to me. Give that spot to another DB/STer or a DT.
-Still think we'll see a FB making the team.
 
German_Patriot said:
A few comments on that:
-I didn't see anything in Silvestro that would warrant a roster spot. Practice Squad? Sure. 53? No way.
-7 Interior OL? Even if McDonald will help out at Tackle for a few weeks, that's nuts. Keep one of the rookie Tackles until Vollmer and/or Zusevics return.
-Francis didn't impress me vs the Saints. Just looked akward running around in space to me. Give that spot to another DB/STer or a DT.
-Still think we'll see a FB making the team.
Click to expand...

The things I pointed out were things I didn't agree with him about so it seems you and I are in agreement. But...Kyed is a respected NEPD writer who regularly beats the experts in draft predictions, including Mayock. This year, however, he didn't like the 'Chandler Jones to the Pats' talk so there's that.

My comment on week 17 was b/c had he played that game, he'd no longer be eligible --> too many games played.
 
We got a bit of a surprise on Thursday night when Bolden showed up against the Saints before Vereen. While Vereen did look quite a bit better, Bolden was still taking second team snaps above Vereen at practice, so it was no fluke.
Vereen will need to continue to impress if he hopes to pass Bolden. At this point, it would be fair to say he’s on the roster bubble.
Click to expand...

Holy misinterpretation, Batman!

Seriously, being this far off on the RB situation pretty much invalidates everything else he says.
 
chevss454 said:
My comment on week 17 was b/c had he played that game, he'd no longer be eligible --> too many games played.
Click to expand...

Ok, wasn't sure if that was what you meant. Playoff games count as well in that calculation, btw. So to be accurate: Had he been active for a single game after week 16 (where he played in his 8th game of the season) it would've cost him his remaining year of PS-eligibility.
 
Oswlek said:
Holy misinterpretation, Batman!

Seriously, being this far off on the RB situation pretty much invalidates everything else he says.
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying but I wouldn't go so far as to say it invalidates everything he says.

I think BB just wanted to see Bolden against the Saints' prime & choice beef. Although to say Vereen is on the bubble from that slight evidence is certainly drawing the wrong conclusion. Maybe you're right after all.
 
chevss454 said:
I know what you're saying but I wouldn't go so far as to say it invalidates everything he says.

I think BB just wanted to see Bolden against the Saints' prime & choice beef. Although to say Vereen is on the bubble from that slight evidence is certainly drawing the wrong conclusion. Maybe you're right after all.
Click to expand...

I was being mildly hyperbolic, but it is seriously off the mark. Vereen is nowhere near the bubble and NE regularly gives early snaps to surprisingly productive newcomers to see how they handle it.

It also is pretty silly to call McDonald an OT simply because he took some emergency prep snaps there the other day. I grant him the Silvestro pick, but IMO NE still having him as the primary blocking TE says more about their expectations that Fells or Shiancoe will return that it does about Alex's possible roster status.

But the Vereen one... wowser!
 
Oswlek said:
I was being mildly hyperbolic, but it is seriously off the mark. Vereen is nowhere near the bubble and NE regularly gives early snaps to surprisingly productive newcomers to see how they handle it.

It also is pretty silly to call McDonald an OT simply because he took some emergency prep snaps there the other day. I grant him the Silvestro pick, but IMO NE still having him as the primary blocking TE says more about their expectations that Fells or Shiancoe will return that it does about Alex's possible roster status.

But the Vereen one... wowser!
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I asked him about it; he's pretty good about responding. I'll let you know.
 
Oswlek said:
Sweet! Thanks.
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Here is my question and his answer.
chevss454 Will S. ‏<s>@</s>animedpet <s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD I don't see how you can conclude Vereen is on the bubble b/c Bolden went in first. Diff backs/diff uses imo + Vereen is well-liked
Click to expand...

Doug Kyed ‏<s>@</s>DougKyedNEPD <s>@</s>animedpet If Pats keep 4 RBs, he'll def make the team, but his game is slightly redundant with Woody, so if they keep 3+FB, could be bubble
Click to expand...

:shake: Woody was on the team when BB drafted Vereen. Makes little sense to me esp since Ridley and Bolden are more redundant than Woody and Vereen, imo. :shrug:

Thoughts?
 
chevss454 said:
Here is my question and his answer.




:shake: Woody was on the team when BB drafted Vereen. Makes little sense to me esp since Ridley and Bolden are more redundant than Woody and Vereen, imo. :shrug:

Thoughts?
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We have a winner :coffee:
 
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