The Newest Definitive "Are We Alone?" Collective Debate

Would be a great time to make themselves known...it should definitely distract from all this current BS going on... I would hope.
 
I have a keen interest in this topic and definitely wouldn't mind sharing my thoughts. That said I believe it belongs in the Politics and Religion forum because inherently it ends up focusing on what folks do and do not believe. We already saw a reference to religious beliefs, and frankly despite many of the points I might raise being science driven, I don't think I can adequately discuss the topic without venturing into that area myself. But definitely an interesting topic and worthy of discussion.
 
I have a keen interest in this topic and definitely wouldn't mind sharing my thoughts. That said I believe it belongs in the Politics and Religion forum because inherently it ends up focusing on what folks do and do not believe. We already saw a reference to religious beliefs, and frankly despite many of the points I might raise being science driven, I don't think I can adequately discuss the topic without venturing into that area myself. But definitely an interesting topic and worthy of discussion.
Football is a religion too... :coffee:
 
Unidentified flying objects? Yes

Space aliens flying them? No.

The distances are too vast.

Let's say that I didn't want to argue the bolded section. That, I (arrogantly) assume that human beings know all there is to know about the physics of the Universe after about a hundred years of trying to figure it out. Several folks here and some big brains like Neil Tyson Degrasse and Seth Shostak (Ceti) say the same thing, but even they would have to admit that there are some definite holes in our knowledge (see matter, dark) and we have a pretty long way to go to catch up to civilizations that might be a thousand (pick your own figure) times older and/or more advanced than ours.

No disrespect to anybody, but we see the issue of space travel based on the methods and physics we presently understand and until we figure out how to beat the effects of gravity -- as our visitors very clearly have, then we won't be able to figure out the time and space issues. They have, so maybe they are way smarter than Neil Degrasse. Should I accept that he is the most intelligent being in the universe? Nah-ah. He's way smarter than me, but not necessarily Admiral Jheellizar from the Crab Nebula.

Without getting overly deep here, there was a study done on the radar data from the now well-known USS Nimitz encounters that indicate that the G-forces generated from the acceleration/deceleration of the craft measured would totally destroy (by a wide margin) any materials we could make an aircraft from, nevermind a biological entity contained therein. The only answer that makes sense if you accept the evidence (I do) that we possess (which is demonstrably factual) is that they have a propulsion method that nullifies the effects of gravity within those craft.

How that happens is well above my pay grade. Bob Lazar, among others, has some interesting theories as to how that might work, but don't ask me to explain it. Everybody laughed at the guy when he talked about element 115 about 30 years ago, but guess what? It's existence was verified in 2003 and it's now in the periodic table of elements.
 
Just want to throw out there, nullifying the effect of gravity is not the only answer. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I suspect you may have intended to say nullifying the effect of inertia. However even if so, possible other explanations could include a range of other options:
  • Temporal (time) manipulation
  • Fundamental flaws in our understanding of the principles of matter
  • Life forms which have definite architectural differences vs our current understanding, including but not limited to robotic or artificial life, combined with propulsion systems we don't understand (they could actually be experiencing those Gs and just be able to withstand them)
  • Systems which interact poorly with our systems of observation (radar and sight based) such that they cause the Perception of something happening other than what is. Think like how the doppler effect makes it Seem like sounds are changing in pitch as a train goes past, this could be a visual and radar artifact resulting from whatever is actually happening
  • They could be from another dimension or universe, or something else could be going on such that their vessels are comprised of something which fundamentally does not interact with gravity wells or inertia in the same way we would expect.

These are just a few off the cuff. My point is only that there is never only One Possible explanation. I don't think it's wise to talk of such things in absolutes, because even if we accept all of your premises (the data in question is accurate and legitimate, undoctored, and evidence of behavior which could not possibly be explained by currently known and disclosed technology native to Earth), the conclusion you come to isn't the only one a rational individual could come to. And not everyone will be willing to accept all of those premises, as you well know. Frankly we don't know what we don't know, and I think the term UFO is an apt one.
 
Incident at Exeter.... first book I ever read on the subject ..... I have no idea but to think we are the only intellectual species in the vast universe .... I’m not sure.


~Dee~
 
Incident at Exeter.... first book I ever read on the subject ..... I have no idea but to think we are the only intellectual species in the vast universe .... I’m not sure.


~Dee~

I read something recently, and I'm going to try and keep this general and as fun as possible (and stay out of arguments), that indicated that the best estimate we can now come up with for the number of planets in the universe that may be inhabitable is roughly equivalent to all the grains of sand on all the beaches on Earth. The next time you're on a beach think about that. I'm guessing that is a shitload of zeros.

Also, the dates have not been firmed up, but there is supposed to be a UFO Conference happening in Exeter, NH somewhere around the end of August. I'm considering checking
that out because they have some pretty sweet tee-shirts.

exetershirta.jpg
 
Just want to throw out there, nullifying the effect of gravity is not the only answer. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I suspect you may have intended to say nullifying the effect of inertia. However even if so, possible other explanations could include a range of other options:
  • Temporal (time) manipulation
  • Fundamental flaws in our understanding of the principles of matter
  • Life forms which have definite architectural differences vs our current understanding, including but not limited to robotic or artificial life, combined with propulsion systems we don't understand (they could actually be experiencing those Gs and just be able to withstand them)
  • Systems which interact poorly with our systems of observation (radar and sight based) such that they cause the Perception of something happening other than what is. Think like how the doppler effect makes it Seem like sounds are changing in pitch as a train goes past, this could be a visual and radar artifact resulting from whatever is actually happening
  • They could be from another dimension or universe, or something else could be going on such that their vessels are comprised of something which fundamentally does not interact with gravity wells or inertia in the same way we would expect.

These are just a few off the cuff. My point is only that there is never only One Possible explanation. I don't think it's wise to talk of such things in absolutes, because even if we accept all of your premises (the data in question is accurate and legitimate, undoctored, and evidence of behavior which could not possibly be explained by currently known and disclosed technology native to Earth), the conclusion you come to isn't the only one a rational individual could come to. And not everyone will be willing to accept all of those premises, as you well know. Frankly we don't know what we don't know, and I think the term UFO is an apt one.

Yes, inertia. Thanks. I'm not a scientist. Just an interested party who has read and watched a ton of stuff that fascinates me. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind about anything.

That was a pretty complex post with a lot of interesting points. Lots of meat on that bone. Unfortunately, I'm watching the draft and will be on the road for the weekend, so I'll try to respond at a later time. Like you, I accept that there are a ton of unknowns involved in all of this, but a little speculation isn't going to hurt anybody.
 
Let's say that I didn't want to argue the bolded section.

just figure the faster you go, the longer you go fast, there are special relativity physics that will occur... aka time dilation ...

add to that the age of the universe, i personally find it very difficult to believe that there are a multitude of civilizations that have risen and developed the ability to travel faster than light, if its even possible, within the same galactic time frame as other growing civilizations... ymmv

 
Unidentified flying objects? Yes

Space aliens flying them? No.

The distances are too vast
I go both ways. The distance is way too vast makes perfect sense. The Universe is way too big to NOT be alone also makes perfect sense, but the issue comes down to one thing. Like with Bigfoot - where's the body? (And no, please don't turn this into another bigfoot thread). The Government, we can agree, can only cover-up so much.

As mentioned above, there is so much technology we haven't discovered yet. Should the Human Race and the planet survive long enough - what would Science look like in the next Century? We're limiting traveling vast distances to our own knowledge of space travel
 
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I read something recently, and I'm going to try and keep this general and as fun as possible (and stay out of arguments), that indicated that the best estimate we can now come up with for the number of planets in the universe that may be inhabitable is roughly equivalent to all the grains of sand on all the beaches on Earth. The next time you're on a beach think about that. I'm guessing that is a shitload of zeros.

Also, the dates have not been firmed up, but there is supposed to be a UFO Conference happening in Exeter, NH somewhere around the end of August. I'm considering checking
that out because they have some pretty sweet tee-shirts.
That would be cool to go to!
 
To be creative in this general vacinity, you must have an open-mind...no brainwashed education or organized religion hogwash allowed! Serious...
 
Former defense chief John Radcliffe has some very interesting comments about todays overall situation.....and I'm glad they are finally
backing off from the old "it's just a weather balloon or swamp gas BS:


View: https://youtu.be/misQaNYb4Fk
 
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