The STEM thread

O_P_T

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I can't tell from the article, or the links within it, just how they calculate the "CO2" emissions associated with steel production.

The process described in the article is said to eliminate CO2 emission from the creation of the steel, using electricity.

But what about the mining and transportation of the raw materials?

Where does the electricity come from to make the steel?

It isn't clear, from the article, just how much CO2 is produced, directly by the melting and smelting of the raw materials to make steel, vs how much is associated with the rest of the supply chain/energy generation, associated with steel manufacturing.

So I don't know if they're playing the game game as with electric cars. Claiming to reduce emissions, without looking at the source of electricity to charge the car, nor the manufacture of the car and batteries in the first place.
 

BostonTim

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I can't tell from the article, or the links within it, just how they calculate the "CO2" emissions associated with steel production.

The process described in the article is said to eliminate CO2 emission from the creation of the steel, using electricity.

But what about the mining and transportation of the raw materials?

Where does the electricity come from to make the steel?

It isn't clear, from the article, just how much CO2 is produced, directly by the melting and smelting of the raw materials to make steel, vs how much is associated with the rest of the supply chain/energy generation, associated with steel manufacturing.

So I don't know if they're playing the game game as with electric cars. Claiming to reduce emissions, without looking at the source of electricity to charge the car, nor the manufacture of the car and batteries in the first place.
The same obvious questions being overlooked by the zero emission electric car movement. In fact, perfect parallels as far as my mind can tell.

Cheers
 

johnlocke

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I can't tell from the article, or the links within it, just how they calculate the "CO2" emissions associated with steel production.

The process described in the article is said to eliminate CO2 emission from the creation of the steel, using electricity.

But what about the mining and transportation of the raw materials?

Where does the electricity come from to make the steel?

It isn't clear, from the article, just how much CO2 is produced, directly by the melting and smelting of the raw materials to make steel, vs how much is associated with the rest of the supply chain/energy generation, associated with steel manufacturing.

So I don't know if they're playing the game game as with electric cars. Claiming to reduce emissions, without looking at the source of electricity to charge the car, nor the manufacture of the car and batteries in the first place.

Probably unsurprising but I know the answer even having no engineering skills.

And I'm quite sure you do too.

Is humility a primary virtue or a useful tactic to bring people to one's side?

Watching what I think is an older Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk.

Joe was perplexed and asked how do you have time for all of this? It's impossible.

Elon is not perfect by any stretch but he answered perfectly in his unique way with insight without boasting nor humility, just truth:

How can I not?

✌✌✌✌
 
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I can't tell from the article, or the links within it, just how they calculate the "CO2" emissions associated with steel production.

The process described in the article is said to eliminate CO2 emission from the creation of the steel, using electricity.

But what about the mining and transportation of the raw materials?

Where does the electricity come from to make the steel?

It isn't clear, from the article, just how much CO2 is produced, directly by the melting and smelting of the raw materials to make steel, vs how much is associated with the rest of the supply chain/energy generation, associated with steel manufacturing.

So I don't know if they're playing the game game as with electric cars. Claiming to reduce emissions, without looking at the source of electricity to charge the car, nor the manufacture of the car and batteries in the first place.
The article included this statement from a Boston Steel VP: "As long as power comes from fossil-free sources ... the process generates no carbon emissions."

So clearly they're not claiming that the entire supply chain is free of carbon emissions.
 

O_P_T

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The article included this statement from a Boston Steel VP: "As long as power comes from fossil-free sources ... the process generates no carbon emissions."

So clearly they're not claiming that the entire supply chain is free of carbon emissions.

First, I'm guessing it needs a boatload of electricity to heat the stuff as high as it needs to be. So the suggestion that all that electricity "comes from fossil-free sources" is almost certainly not possible.

According to the EIA here's the breakdown of sources of electricity in the US.

Fossil fuel: 60.8%
Nuclear: 18.9%
Hydro: 6.3%

That's 86% and none of them are classified as "green" by a typical environmentalist.

And for the world, the numbers aren't any better.

80.9% is from fossil fuels.

global-share-of-total-energy-supply-by-source-2019.png

It also doesn't say anything about the mining of the raw materials. I guarantee all that mining uses fossil fuels to run the machinery.
 
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First, I'm guessing it needs a boatload of electricity to heat the stuff as high as it needs to be. So the suggestion that all that electricity "comes from fossil-free sources" is almost certainly not possible.

According to the EIA here's the breakdown of sources of electricity in the US.

Fossil fuel: 60.8%
Nuclear: 18.9%
Hydro: 6.3%

That's 86% and none of them are classified as "green" by a typical environmentalist.

And for the world, the numbers aren't any better.

80.9% is from fossil fuels.

View attachment 11129

It also doesn't say anything about the mining of the raw materials. I guarantee all that mining uses fossil fuels to run the machinery.

And as we all know, the percentage of energy generated by fossil fuels is fixed for all time, and mining techniques will never change.

Research and development into new technologies is a waste of time and money.
 

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And as we all know, the percentage of energy generated by fossil fuels is fixed for all time, and mining techniques will never change.

Research and development into new technologies is a waste of time and money.

This is not addressed solely to you.

A good many either begin with the premise and many with an assumption that fossil fuels carry a great tragedy in their use

Why?

I'm firmly in favor of technologically which provides greatly less expensive means of energy. I firmly think as humans grow our heights are limited in part by the expense of energy.

That said, what is the inherent flaw in fossil fuels? I see none.
 

BostonTim

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That said, what is the inherent flaw in fossil fuels? I see none.
Once you buy unquestioningly into Global warming (as well as warming on Jupiter, Mars, Pluto, and Neptune's Moon) and the obvious corollary that Evil Rich White Man is the cause of it all and that we are therefore doomed, it becomes as obvious as the future outcome of the Pats v. Jets as fully explained in the Karma thread.

Cheers
 
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"Green" energy isn't the answer unless you include nuclear. Nuclear energy is the only real future with the technology currently available.

Unfortunately, the politically tortured industry is in decline. We elect "leaders" with neither the intelligence nor intestinal fortitude to steer us on the right path or even ALLOW us to steer ourselves.
 

O_P_T

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And as we all know, the percentage of energy generated by fossil fuels is fixed for all time, and mining techniques will never change.

Research and development into new technologies is a waste of time and money.

When the source of electricity, and mining/transportation of raw materials no longer use fossil fuels, then this process can be considered "green". Until then, no, it isn't.
 
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