The War on Free Speech

Darth Despot

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I think I'd have to disagree about the percentages.

I have a fair number of hard core lefty Friends & acquaintances who go to marches and what not and very few of them are looking to incite violence of any sort. I'd but the % at much less than 1%, more like a few thousand brainless nitwits (and I worked in Cambridge for years, so I know the type).

A few hundred of these dopes in every city hardly does a movement make, nor does a few thousand Klan and Nazis nationwide. They are both a tiny, vocal minority.
 
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Baron Samedi

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I don't know, I know a few that are not themselves violent, but they support Antifa and the riots stopping people like Coulter and Milo from speaking...they approve of it out of one side of their mouth, but then say they don't support violence out of the other side.

I mean, I come right out and say that I support the cause of BLM, but not the organization, the movement, or the tactics.

I don't hear a lot of condemnation of antifa from the lefties I know...just a kind of silence and, when pressed, an ambivalent condemnation of violence associated with them, often followed by some justification that the speakers and the right wingers incite the violence, so it's really the right's fault.

It's sort of a cloaked approval of antifa and violence, so long as they can shift the blame onto the right, so it's not really the left's fault. You know, sort of a veiled "But...they're Nazi's, so the violence is understandable, even if I don't approve" kind of thing.
 

skippyx

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I think the Kaepernick situation is to Free Speech what the Deflategate situation was to Fake News and denial of reality.

The guy was protected to say what he wanted and oh boy did he say some stupid things. This opens him up to everyone else's freedom to treat him any way they wanted.

The people who are on his side are actually opposed to free speech. They don't want white people (it's always white people with Liberals) to voice their opinion of his disgusting comments. They don't want football fans to express that they don't want him on their teams. They also don't want coaches, GMs, and Owners to be free to pass on a disgusting human who is also 4-20 in his last 24 starts.

There is much more to dislike about him but just take this nugget:

Dictator H had some good ideas.
Dictator C had some good ideas.

The first comment got a rich 1%'er owner removed from her position as Reds owner.
The second comment is Kaepernick on Castro.

Liberals on this issue don't think white people have the right to be offended by his comment. They are OK with Cuban American's being offended. What this means is they are treating white people differently than those of Cuban decent. This is textbook racism.

The worst kind of bad guys are those who are convinced they are the good guys.

 

HSanders

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C'mon, skippy, what owner wouldn't FLY to sign a guy who argued with a Cuban refugee that Castro was AWESOME?
What owner WOULDN'T fly to sign a guy who uses work hours and work uniforms to speak their political minds via wearing cop pig socks, etc.?

I mean I'm SURE that those same crybabies would run to the defense of someone using work time, uniforms and platforms to promote the KKK. Right?
#Racistbastards
 
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Google: Free Speech and Expression Are Dead Thanks to Snowflake HR Department Thought Fascists

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MR5gq8aLrhI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

PatsFanLisa

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Nobody talking about yesterday's "free speech" hate march and the results of it?
 

HSanders

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No one is trying to justify violence in the name of any cause, nor the righteousness of this one. And the msm is reporting on it. So...were it like this with all violent protests and marches, there wouldn't be a need for topics on it because they would be discussed and the violence condemned equally. I'm surprised a left winger would even bring it up because Trump came out to condemn those who committed the horrible white supremacist violence, and beelzebub knows most of you can't judge individual actions, only party group think(which is ironic because Trump is actually more of a democrat, but I digress).
 

PatsFanLisa

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No one is trying to justify violence in the name of any cause, nor the righteousness of this one. And the msm is reporting on it. So...were it like this with all violent protests and marches, there wouldn't be a need for topics on it because they would be discussed and the violence condemned equally. I'm surprised a left winger would even bring it up because Trump came out to condemn those who committed the horrible white supremacist violence, and beelzebub knows most of you can't judge individual actions, only party group think(which is ironic because Trump is actually more of a democrat, but I digress).

Interesting response.

My interpretation of what's bolded is if you believe that, you're part of the problem.
 

aloyouis

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No one is trying to justify violence in the name of any cause, nor the righteousness of this one. And the msm is reporting on it. So...were it like this with all violent protests and marches, there wouldn't be a need for topics on it because they would be discussed and the violence condemned equally. I'm surprised a left winger would even bring it up because Trump came out to condemn those who committed the horrible white supremacist violence, and beelzebub knows most of you can't judge individual actions, only party group think(which is ironic because Trump is actually more of a democrat, but I digress).

Interesting response.

My interpretation of what's bolded is if you believe that, you're part of the problem.

Well Lisa, while Trump didn’t choose to take the side of the racist white supremacists, he also didn’t take the side of the fascist left agitators. He did exactly as HSanders said he did above. He condemned it universally.

The bottom line is that the lame stream media and the left wing nut jobs have chosen to politicize it ( let no good tragedy go unused, right?) Nothing short of proclaiming himself a socialist fascist like the left would be good enough for folks such as yourself.

Had the previous occupant of the White House made the exact same statement, you would be on here proclaiming him a statesman.
 

PatsFanLisa

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Well Lisa, while Trump didn’t choose to take the side of the racist white supremacists, he also didn’t take the side of the fascist left agitators. He did exactly as HSanders said he did above. He condemned it universally.

The bottom line is that the lame stream media and the left wing nut jobs have chosen to politicize it ( let no good tragedy go unused, right?) Nothing short of proclaiming himself a socialist fascist like the left would be good enough for folks such as yourself.

Had the previous occupant of the White House made the exact same statement, you would be on here proclaiming him a statesman.

Thanks for your always neutral input.

Right now I'm concerned about today. What is happening today.

Agitators? I see you've bought his rhetoric from yesterday hook, line and sinker, as you usually do. The president of the United States should have called them out for who and what they are. And if you want to fault the people who were there to protest their vile hatred, you know, the ones who weren't armed with shields and bats and guns and cars and chemical sprays, that just tells us who YOU are.

The implication by the president that the Nazis marching and the group of demonstrators who gathered to oppose them were equally wrong is despicable.

There is no equalization here. There is a side that has been empowered to spew their hatred and another side that eschews it. Which side are you on?
 

PatsFanLisa

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Also, if you are willing to look at Nazis/white supremacists and those that are willing to fight their hatred as morally equivalent, again, you are part of the problem.
 

aloyouis

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Thanks for your always neutral input.

Right now I'm concerned about today. What is happening today.

Agitators? I see you've bought his rhetoric from yesterday hook, line and sinker, as you usually do. The president of the United States should have called them out for who and what they are. And if you want to fault the people who were there to protest their vile hatred, you know, the ones who weren't armed with shields and bats and guns and cars and chemical sprays, that just tells us who YOU are.

The implication by the president that the Nazis marching and the group of demonstrators who gathered to oppose them were equally wrong is despicable.

There is no equalization here. There is a side that has been empowered to spew their hatred and another side that eschews it. Which side are you on?

Both groups should be despised and resented yet allowed to peaceably assemble and protest. Peaceably.

Since you obviously HAVEN'T READ President Trump's statement, here it is verbatim (bold is mine):

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence that's on many sides. On many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama, it's been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America. What is vital now is the swift restoration of law and order, and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society. And no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play, or be with their parents, and have a good time.

I just go off the phone with the governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, and we agreed that the hate and the division must stop. And must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection — and really I say this so strongly — true affection for each other.

Our country is doing very well in so many ways, we have record, just absolute record employment, we have unemployment at the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country, Foxcon and car companies, and so many others, they are coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country, and great for the American worker. We have so many great things happening in our country, so when I watch Charlottesville, to me, it's very, very sad.

I want to salute the great work of the state and local police in Virginia. Incredible people, law enforcement, incredible people. And also the National Guard, they've really been working smart and working hard. They've been doing a terrific job. Federal authorities are also providing tremendous support to the governor, he thanked me for that. We are here to provide any other assistance is needed. We are ready, willing, and able.

Above all else we must remember this truth: no matter our color, creed, religion, or political party, we are all Americans first. We love our country, we love our God, we love our flag, we're proud of our country, we're proud of who we are. So we want to get the situation straightened out in Charlottesville, and we want to study it. And we want to see what we are doing wrong as a country where things like this can happen.

My administration is restoring the sacred bonds of loyalty between this nation and its citizens, but our citizens must also restore the bonds of trust and loyalty between one another. We must love each other, respect each other, and cherish our history an our future together. So important. We have to respect each other, ideally we have to love each other."




What more do you want (besides a bullet in President Trump's head)? For crying out loud. Only liberals could find a way to whine and bitch about President Trump's statement on the tragedy in Virginia. Hell, it isn't as if he sent the DOJ in to stir up racial divide in MO and FL (and others). If you want to find someone to hate for inciting racial unrest in this country look no further than obama. He did it constantly.

READ THE STATEMENT LISA.

I really would like to able to have reasonable discussion here going forward but at some point we all need to agree on the obvious. In this case, the entire premise of President Trump's speech is anti-hate and closing racial divisions in this country. If you can't or refuse to see the obvious Lisa, that is on you and crystal clear to everyone.
 

aloyouis

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Also, if you are willing to look at Nazis/white supremacists and those that are willing to fight their hatred as morally equivalent, again, you are part of the problem.

LOL. All you can do is try to paint false narratives. That skill must have worked at some point given your complete and utter reliance on it. It doesn't anymore. It just highlights your lack of a defendable position.
 

PatsFanLisa

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LOL. All you can do is try to paint false narratives. That skill must have worked at some point given your complete and utter reliance on it. It doesn't anymore. It just highlights your lack of a defendable position.

You can't have a reasonable discussion with anyone except yourself. I've stated my opinion. The only false narratives are the ones that you continually post.

Keep supporting him, though. I give you credit for not backing down when virtually everyone, except his base, has called him out on just about everything.
 

O_P_T

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Here's a suggestion.

Everyone take a deep breath and step back from the abyss.

Both sides (here) should stop and think for a moment what the other side is saying and actually listen for a once.

Both sides are reading far too deep, IMHO, into what Trump did and didn't say.

His statement was sufficiently vague that one can read either interpretation into it.

So please don't claim to "know" what he meant.

But I have one simple question for both sides.

Are you equally outraged over the Berkeley protests/violence earlier this year?

If no, why not?
 

aloyouis

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Here's a suggestion.

Everyone take a deep breath and step back from the abyss.

Both sides (here) should stop and think for a moment what the other side is saying and actually listen for a once.

Both sides are reading far too deep, IMHO, into what Trump did and didn't say.

His statement was sufficiently vague that one can read either interpretation into it.

So please don't claim to "know" what he meant.

But I have one simple question for both sides.

Are you equally outraged over the Berkeley protests/violence earlier this year?

If no, why not?

Calmly and coherently I read his statement. How is it vague? Is it because he didn't NAME the fascist antifa? Is it because the didn't NAME the racist white supremacists? He went further and included a huge swath of the haters in this country:

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence that's on many sides."

That is far from vague to me. I agree with him.
 

aloyouis

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You can't have a reasonable discussion with anyone except yourself. I've stated my opinion. The only false narratives are the ones that you continually post.

Keep supporting him, though. I give you credit for not backing down when virtually everyone, except his base, has called him out on just about everything.

Thanks for the credit. I pride myself in being able to discern (even if I disagree) to a high degree.

You can have your opinions and that is fine as it is still a free country (kinda), but when you say things that are patently false then I will be here for you. You know, to help you. I am a nice person that way.

I ask one thing from you: Go back and read the statements that I put in bold. That is all. Go Pats!
 

PatsFanLisa

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Thanks for the credit. I pride myself in being able to discern (even if I disagree) to a high degree.

You can have your opinions and that is fine as it is still a free country (kinda), but when you say things that are patently false then I will be here for you. You know, to help you. I am a nice person that way.

I ask one thing from you: Go back and read the statements that I put in bold. That is all. Go Pats!

I forgot, you are adept at pointing out how everyone is wrong, post "patently false" things, and are just generally always right.

Silly me.
 
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