Tom Brady/Tampa Off-season thread

spacecrime

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Nice strawman. Where did I call Bill an oaf? Bill did not stick with Bledsoe because Bledsoe was awful in his system AND Brady outplayed him. BB did not give Brady the chance to succeed, Brady earned that chance.
I think, deliberately or otherwise, you're missing the point. The only way a QB, any QB, gets into a game is if the head coach tells him to. It is to Bill's credit that he put Brady in. BB built a meritocracy, where the best play er plays and that is totally on him. Bledsoe just got a HUGE contract and BB benched him for a late round pick. That is not usually how the NFL works. You don't make a QB the second or third highest paid QB in the league and then not play him. Brady played well, but a sixth round pick on most teams would not be put into the game without an exceptional head coach.

You are just looking so hard to find fault with BB. You took a fact (BB went 5-11 in 2000) and then added your twist that BB coached badly and was on the hot seat after going 0-2 in 2001. That is simply born of desire to elevate Brady. BB was not in trouble of losing his job, he simply was re-building a shit team. The 2001 superbowl was a tribute to coaching. That was a team of over-achievers. Brady included, but not solely Brady. You can check, but I believe we scored more defensive and special teams TDs that offensive TDs in the 2001 playoffs.

BB was smart enough to play Brady and not overload him, He was smart enough to use role players like chess pieces. WMG doesn't get called for holding Faulk and the fumble recovery for a TD stand, and there is no Brady/Vinitieri mystique in 2001.

It was all wonderful and I love that year and the following 2 decades, but to say that BB did not give Brady a chance is incorrect.

Long before Brady went to Michigan, BB's defensive game plan to defeat Buffalo's K-Gun offense was in the NFL Hall of Fame. In spite of you and Rivshark86, BB is a coaching genius and Brady was fortunate to play for the Pats and one of the very few head coaches smart enough to recognize his potential. (I would say Bill Cowher was another). Ben R's first year, Cowher brought him along slowly, fiving him half the playbook, giving Ben no more than he could handle. Other HCs could/would not do that. Of course, like BB, Cowher used a great defense to cover Ben's shortcomings, as BB did with Brady. 2003-2004 were as much about defense as offense. After that, Brady really came into his own.

Brady is great. He didn't do it alone.
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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I think, deliberately or otherwise, you're missing the point. The only way a QB, any QB, gets into a game is if the head coach tells him to. It is to Bill's credit that he put Brady in. BB built a meritocracy, where the best play er plays and that is totally on him. Bledsoe just got a HUGE contract and BB benched him for a late round pick. That is not usually how the NFL works. You don't make a QB the second or third highest paid QB in the league and then not play him. Brady played well, but a sixth round pick on most teams would not be put into the game without an exceptional head coach.

You are just looking so hard to find fault with BB. You took a fact (BB went 5-11 in 2000) and then added your twist that BB coached badly and was on the hot seat after going 0-2 in 2001. That is simply born of desire to elevate Brady. BB was not in trouble of losing his job, he simply was re-building a shit team. The 2001 superbowl was a tribute to coaching. That was a team of over-achievers. Brady included, but not solely Brady. You can check, but I believe we scored more defensive and special teams TDs that offensive TDs in the 2001 playoffs.

BB was smart enough to play Brady and not overload him, He was smart enough to use role players like chess pieces. WMG doesn't get called for holding Faulk and the fumble recovery for a TD stand, and there is no Brady/Vinitieri mystique in 2001.

It was all wonderful and I love that year and the following 2 decades, but to say that BB did not give Brady a chance is incorrect.

Long before Brady went to Michigan, BB's defensive game plan to defeat Buffalo's K-Gun offense was in the NFL Hall of Fame. In spite of you and Rivshark86, BB is a coaching genius and Brady was fortunate to play for the Pats and one of the very few head coaches smart enough to recognize his potential. (I would say Bill Cowher was another). Ben R's first year, Cowher brought him along slowly, fiving him half the playbook, giving Ben no more than he could handle. Other HCs could/would not do that. Of course, like BB, Cowher used a great defense to cover Ben's shortcomings, as BB did with Brady. 2003-2004 were as much about defense as offense. After that, Brady really came into his own.

Brady is great. He didn't do it alone.
Brady was very pedestrian in 2001...but, effective.
 

rivshark86

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I love that we are digging up quotes from a year ago. Lol this is good stuff.

Pats fans of all people should know to never bet against Brady.
 

Undertaker #59*

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Nice strawman. Where did I call Bill an oaf? Bill did not stick with Bledsoe because Bledsoe was awful in his system AND Brady outplayed him. BB did not give Brady the chance to succeed, Brady earned that chance. Bill has said that repeatedly. I assure you that Bill did not go into the 2000 camp looking to give Brady a chance at anything except holding a clip board and being a camp arm. It was Brady that took command of the scout team and elevated himself from 4th string to back-up in one year and then to starter when the 2001 season began.
Bledsoe and Brady were using the same offensive system in 2001 that Bledsoe used in 1994-1996, so no, Bledsoe did not suck in that system. He had other issues.
 

HSanders

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bledsoe also wasn't coachable like tb was. being uncoachable doesn't fly with bb.
 

spacecrime

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Bledsoe and Brady were using the same offensive system in 2001 that Bledsoe used in 1994-1996, so no, Bledsoe did not suck in that system. He had other issues.
Bledso just try too hard to make a play he didn't know when to throw the ball away
 
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Mazz22

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Bledsoe and Brady were using the same offensive system in 2001 that Bledsoe used in 1994-1996, so no, Bledsoe did not suck in that system. He had other issues.
He didn't have Weiss as his OC though in the Carroll years. That being said, it was for the most part the same but to really run it effectively you need to have Brady's IQ and also his ability to feel pressure. Bledsoe was awful when it came to pressure in the pocket. Kind of like how Cam is now.
 

Undertaker #59*

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Well, I wasn't talking about the Carroll years. There were two different systems there, the latter being the Ernie Zampese timing based system that the 90s Cowboys had, and that Mike Martz used for the Greatest Show on Turf.

In 1996, it was the same system as 2001. The OC was Ray Perkins and Weiss was the WR coach. It was a pretty good year for the Patriots and Bledsoe.
 

spacecrime

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Well, I wasn't talking about the Carroll years. There were two different systems there, the latter being the Ernie Zampese timing based system that the 90s Cowboys had, and that Mike Martz used for the Greatest Show on Turf.

In 1996, it was the same system as 2001. The OC was Ray Perkins and Weiss was the WR coach. It was a pretty good year for the Patriots and Bledsoe.
If not for Desmond Howard...
 

BostonTim

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I love that we are digging up quotes from a year ago. Lol this is good stuff.

Pats fans of all people should know to never bet against Brady.
Skippy? Skippy Bayless? Is that you?

Cheers
 

king of kings

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Skippy? Skippy Bayless? Is that you?

Cheers
They convinced themselves Tampa was a bunch of scrubs. Before Brady got there. All by himself carried them to a Championship. Instead of admitting they got a lot better with additions of Brady , Gronk , AB, Fournette , JPP & Suh.
 
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spacecrime

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They convinced themselves Tampa was a bunch of scrubs. Before Brady got there. All by himself carried them to a Championship. Instead of admitting they got a lot better with additions of Brady , Gronk , AB, Fournette , JPP & Suh.
There is another thing I hesitate to bring up knowing the response that is sure to come, but there is a chance we are eliminating chance, the lightning-in-a-bottle effect. Every time the Pats have a bad game, they are declared dead, the dynasty kaput. And when a team starts off average, then gets stronger, that wins the superbow they are declared the new dynasty. and it is inevitable that that will continue the coming year right where they left off. l Looking at you 2007 Giants, and to some extent all the love shoveled at the Chiefs, even the year they didn't even make it to the superbowl.

Time will tell if the Bucs are ready to be called an elite team, or that they just had one very fortunate half-a-season and great post-season, as well as whether or not the Patriots had a bad season and now will rebound to their rightful place in the pecking order.

Me, I'm happy for Brady winning a superbowl and laugh at the haters who called him a system QB for the last 20 years. I also know that the always competitive Steelers had one horrible 6-10 and netted Ben ROthlesburger who I thought would be drafted 4th (instead of Rivers) and the always competitive Patriots had one horrible 7-9 season and netted Mac Jones who most of the football world would go 3rd.

You simply cannot predict the future of a team solely on what it did in one game or one season. The AFCE does not yet belong to the Bills, and the rarely-competitive Bucs so far had one good year out of decades.

The media will decide everything on what they are already calling the Brady vs the Patriots game, but don't discount any-given-Sunday. Not that I won't enjoy a victory over the Bucs, but I enjoy all victories. I just don't see it as a defining moment for either team.
 

king of kings

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He wanted to join them.As much as they wanted him. Which does back up my posts about their receivers.

On this night, Licht spoke first, then it was Bucs coach Bruce Arians’ turn.

The conversation lasted about 90 minutes. Brady did a lot of the talking. In fact, the Bucs had gone in with a detailed plan and under the firm belief that they would have to make an aggressive sales pitch to have any chance of landing the six-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback. Instead, Brady interviewed Licht and Arians as much as they asked questions of him.

His preparation, as usual, was next level. He knew all about Arians’ offense and was eager to operate it. He could recite, by position, the list of the Bucs’ offensive weapons. He was intrigued by the notion of having two Pro Bowl receivers, Mike Evans and Chris Godwin. He didn’t ask about them as players. He wanted to know, “Are they good guys?’’

The best, Licht assured
It was clear that Brady had watched some Bucs game film because he was impressed how well their defense had played the last six games of the 2019 regular season under defensive coordinator Todd Bowles, the former Jets head coach.

It felt like Brady was recruiting the Bucs, and the 42-year-old spoke with a teenager’s enthusiasm.
 
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