Towards the 53...

spacecrime

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They are working to figure out who to cut, same as us, and he'd still need to go through waivers. They need to go from 80 to 53 in 28 hours. Suddenly we cut a guy. He clears waivers
4h before the cutdown deadline. You're telling me that in the middle of that chaos they'd get the GM staff and coaching staff together and analyze everything to cut one of their guys early so they can put in a waiver claim for the possibility of signing a guy (who they can't evaluate before the deadline, remember) and then continue with their cuts?
Not exactly, Flagg. I'm thinking we're not talking about the same thing. I wsa saying that cutting early might increase the risk of losing the player.

Team x has shitty 4th and 5th WRs and is risking only having 4 WRs on their initial 53 man roster. Yikes.

They see a WR on the waiver wire apparently far better than their 4th and 5th WRs.

By claiming that recently released Wilkerson they just IMPROVED their 80-man roster, and they will have until Aug 30 (53 man cutdown day) to decide if they want this guy or not.

No need to do a whole coaching staff rumble over it. It the cut Wilkerson better than player #79 or #80 on their roster or not? In almost any other case, not, but Wilkerson played well in actual NFL games last year.

That's all. Irrelevant anyway if the Pats put Wilkerson on IR for the year with a severe concussion. :toast:

Edit: I just thought...didn't the Pats claim an early cut a few years ago from the Ravens and end up keeping him? Can't remember....
 

sg14

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Perkins went ham last Friday. Easily his best. You have to keep him.

I agree on Hines. He could end up starting at RG. He's eerily similar to Shaq Mason as a player.

Uche? Trading him would be nuts. He's getting it and is a top specimen physically.

Roberts should be going absolutely nowhere except to the 53, but now DaMarcus Mitchell is making a bid along
with LaBryan Ray. Something has to give, but out of those 3 Roberts is the one I would pound the table for.

I was worried about the front 7 coming into the year, but now it appears like we've got plenty of young talent and
will lose some that would have stuck in a typical year.
You're right about Uche but I find him to be so one dimensional it's annoying. I made that comment after seeing a highlight where Uche was stonewalled by an OT, and subconsciously by my binkie affair with Mitchell. Mitchell can knock the snot out of an opposing player. Uche doesn't have that pop.
Agree on Roberts being first in that group of three.
 

Hawg73

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Somebody needs to pin Bill down and ask him about the Patriots "3 year development program".

Sometimes we get a rookie that can play right away, but most of the time it seems like our young guys have to go through a long
process to see the field and I can't say it's just because the guys are just disappointing or that it's too hard to learn our way of
doing things.

Perkins looked excellent the other night, I thought. He's strong and fast, is a good pass-rusher and looks like he can
be a real play-maker to me. If he isn't an NFL linebacker then I don't know what I'm looking at.

Look at Anfernee Jennings. He did nothing for two years and was considered a huge disappointment, but now he's
got it together and looks like he'll get plenty of snaps at OLB/Edge. All of a sudden he's a player.

I can't figure out why this seems to be a thing in recent years. I would suspect it is to make it easier to resign guys after
their rookie deals, but I'm not sure if it might actually be the opposite. Let the Patriots get a guy up to speed with little
wear and tear and then sign a guy who is ready to be productive somewhere else.

It's getting like a top College program where guys have to wait to play until their Jr. or Sr. years.

Or, you could listen to Felger and just say Bill sucks as a GM.
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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Somebody needs to pin Bill down and ask him about the Patriots "3 year development program".

Sometimes we get a rookie that can play right away, but most of the time it seems like our young guys have to go through a long
process to see the field and I can't say it's just because the guys are just disappointing or that it's too hard to learn our way of
doing things.

Perkins looked excellent the other night, I thought. He's strong and fast, is a good pass-rusher and looks like he can
be a real play-maker to me. If he isn't an NFL linebacker then I don't know what I'm looking at.

Look at Anfernee Jennings. He did nothing for two years and was considered a huge disappointment, but now he's
got it together and looks like he'll get plenty of snaps at OLB/Edge. All of a sudden he's a player.

I can't figure out why this seems to be a thing in recent years. I would suspect it is to make it easier to resign guys after
their rookie deals, but I'm not sure if it might actually be the opposite. Let the Patriots get a guy up to speed with little
wear and tear and then sign a guy who is ready to be productive somewhere else.

It's getting like a top College program where guys have to wait to play until their Jr. or Sr. years.

Or, you could listen to Felger and just say Bill sucks as a GM.
BB needs to stage his education for his players IMO. Let them learn on the job. Forcing them to sit for years is stupid. Drip feed them while gaining worthwhile on the job experience.

If they're truly that dumb that they can't play as a rookie, draft better players that can.
 

sg14

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...and PS, and injury stashes, and shadow roster.

A thread for roster projections, cut downs, and everyone's favorites: projected trades!

I can't remember a camp with more interesting roster questions and battles. Within position groups, and real, impactful questions about how many to keep at each position group.

Key questions beyond simple positional battles:
  • Because of Montgomery, how many combined RB & WR? In theory it could be less, but if he's a key contributor/chess piece, does it end up meaning we keep more?
  • It seems that there are a number of guys pushing the traditional ST Ninja core. Does Schooler push someone out? Do the tight positional battles squeeze out a "Teams only" guy for a guy who provides depth/high potential and can contribute on STs?
  • 3 QBs on the 53? Would Zappe and/or Hoyer make it to PS?
  • Up to 16 practice squad slots this year, and almost anyone can be on it. Plus, 2 can go from PS to game day roster each week, so it's useful to play matchups. BUT there are maximum PS salaries, so it's hard to prevent guys from getting poached as we've done in the past.

Absolute roster locks in all cases except injury/retirement (31):
--- Offense (13)
QB Jones
RB Stevenson, D Harris, Strong
TE Henry, Smith
WR Parker, Bourne, Thornton
OT Brown
IOL Andrews, Strange
OL Onwenu
--- Defense (14):
F7 Barmore, Godcheaux, Guy, Bentley, Judon, McMillan, Wilson
DB Mills, Jon Jones, Mar Jones, Jack Jones, Phillips, Dugger, McCourty,
--- Spec (4) Bailey, Folk, Cardona, Slater

Potential trades (in order of likelihood, though all are unlikely) (3):
  • Agholor or (much less likely) Meyers (both are locks unless traded)
  • Wynn (near roster lock unless traded)
  • (One of the depth DBs TBD)

(34 above, plus) Near-locks (45):
QB (2): Zappe*
Skill (11): Montgomery
OL (7): Ferentz, Cajuste
F7 (10): Wise (should probably be above, but let me dream that there's at least some small chance of cutting him...), Jennings, Uche
DBs (10): Mitchell, Peppers
Spec (5): Bethel

That's what I see as the core of the game day roster: those 45 (*most likely swapping Hoyer for Zappe on game day, but I see at least some small chance of Hoyer getting cut, but almost zero chance of Zappe getting cut, and it may be easier to get Hoyer to the PS), plus 3 others, one of whom has to be an OL.

But that leaves a bunch of questions. Without even looking at the OL, there are a LOT of guys left who I'm pretty confident deserve to be playing (or at least wearing pads) on Sundays. Here are 11:
  • Hoyer
  • WRs Nixon & Humphries
  • F7 Anderson, Davis & Ray
  • DBs Bledsoe, Bryant, & Wade
- Spec: Davis & Schooler

A little less confident in this group of 9 more, but they're close and/or have strong upside and have shown something significant:
Skill: Harris & Wilkerson
F7: Roberts, Ekuale, McGrone, Mitchell, & Tavai
DB: Butler, Elliot

That's 65 guys, with only 7 OL included! There are some tough decisions ahead.

...but not today. Today, please cut Joejuan Williams and move on. Unless you think he's useful as a TC physical press corner for training purposes, I guess. In that case, cut WR Josh Hammond so the other 8.5(!) viable WRs get that many more reps.

Getting close now...

What are your thoughts, key questions?
I got below 53, by figuring there are certain players that won't be picked up and think the Pat's will cut below 53. And there will be post Tuesday adjustments.

3 QBs
3 RBs, Harris, Stevenson, Strong
7 WR Agahlor, Bourne, Meyers, Parker, Slater, TT, Montgomery
2 TE
9 OL Starting 5 + Ferentez, Hines, Cajuste, Sherman (mainly quess work here)
7 DL Baremore, Davis, Godchaux, Guy, Wise, Roberts, Mitchell (last two are picks for the future)
7 LB Bentley, Jennings, Judon, McMillian, Uche, Wilson, Langi
5 CB Mills + 3 Jones and Bethel (Bryant and Wade can clear waivers)
4 S McCourty, Philips, Dugger, Bledsoe. ( disappointed in Dugger's play against LV, wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for one of the safeties, think they like the young Bledsoe who can play moving away from the LOS)
3 Specialists, Bailey, Folk, Cardona

Adds up to 50
They also will loose players they like but won't be alone on that front.
 

BostonTim

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And , a small reminder, 4 PM today and it will be done,

Cheers
 
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Flagg the Wanderer

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And , a small reminder, 4 PM today and it will be done,

Cheers
As a follow-up reminder: No it won't. Last year at 4pm we had zero kickers.

Thornton has to be on, then IR'd, then his replacement. Possibly Montgomery as well. Plus all the roster games that will be played for the next several days at least.
 
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Flagg the Wanderer

Flagg the Wanderer

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CB Mitchell informed of his release. Guess Jack is looking good to the coaches as to us...

That's one down from my "near lock" list 2 weeks ago, though I would have removed it if I'd gone back to edit. With the new PS rules, both Mitchell and Asiasi could be on the PS. Asiasi should get through it they want him. Less certain about Mitchell.
 
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Flagg the Wanderer

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...and 6th rounder RB Kevin Harris!

Must be awfully confident that he's going to slip through waivers. Surprising, given his performance on Friday. Hopefully that's a positive sign for Montgomery's ankle, but they're really different positions. Now, if they cut Taylor...that's a good sign.
 
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Flagg the Wanderer

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Flagg the Wanderer

Flagg the Wanderer

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OL Sherman cut. I hope he gets through - very recently it seemed like he'd started to show why they drafted him.
 
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